1. #56261
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It is a direct contradiction of his characterization in the MoP pre-patch where he is entirely okay with using a second mana-bomb on a similar town.
    Theramore is not just "a town", it's a military outpost right outside the Durotar. Nortwatch Hold who are affiliated with Theramore literally have plans to burn down Orgrimmar, Razor Hill and Sen'jin Village. Theramore forces actively attack the Horde.

    Theramore was a valid military target. Random Druids that have Night Elves as part of them are not a valid military target.

  2. #56262
    Elemental Lord
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    Warcraft story was a big mess since Vanilla, so belowed Wrath and Legion are just grand finale for two Warcraft III threats. Only really good storylines are side stuff: some from MoP/WoD, but especially Suramar, Zandalar, Jaina stuff from 8.0, Revendreth (Revendreth kinda copied lot of stuff from Suramar though).

    In Zandalar, if we ignore war stuff, Horde experience on BfA launch was amazing, really cohesive, interesting and down to earth (for fantasy) story and introduction to first raid. I really hope 10.0 will be exactly like that, solid story without "champion world is ending" bullshit.

  3. #56263
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Warcraft story was a big mess since Vanilla, so belowed Wrath and Legion are just grand finale for two Warcraft III threats. Only really good storylines are side stuff: some from MoP/WoD, but especially Suramar, Zandalar, Jaina stuff from 8.0, Revendreth (Revendreth kinda copied lot of stuff from Suramar though).

    In Zandalar, if we ignore war stuff, Horde experience on BfA launch was amazing, really cohesive, interesting and down to earth (for fantasy) story and introduction to first raid. I really hope 10.0 will be exactly like that, solid story without "champion world is ending" bullshit.
    Zone specific storylines during levelling tends to be solid. Usually it's just when it's part of a bigger story that it starts failing.
    Drustvar for instance had a fantastic storyline, and the reason is likely because it didn't have to consider, or deal with the greater BfA faction war storyline. Rather it could focus solely on just the witch stuff.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  4. #56264
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Zone specific storylines during levelling tends to be solid. Usually it's just when it's part of a bigger story that it starts failing.
    Drustvar for instance had a fantastic storyline, and the reason is likely because it didn't have to consider, or deal with the greater BfA faction war storyline. Rather it could focus solely on just the witch stuff.
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that because I was told elsewhere it was a spicy take.

    The zone storylines tend to be good, hell even the concurrent/conclusion storyline (Zandalar Forever/Rescue Jaina) can be good.

    But whenever that stops and we go back to the "main" plot with the pre-existing characters starts back up, the quality swan dives into a shallow pond. It was like that for Shadowlands too, I thought the individual chapters of the levelling story were a neat introduction to the expansion, then I hit level 60 and we were back to Sylvanas and Bradd Pitt being sad and I got bored.

  5. #56265
    With the way the development works, I think they write the zone storylines first, and then force the main plot in there when they decide when that expansion is supposed to come out.

    The fact that BfA works just as well (if not better) with any of the Azeroth storyline removed (like it is now with BfA Chromie Time) is proof of that

    Didn't they once say that they weren't sure if they were gonna release BfA or Legion first?

  6. #56266
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that because I was told elsewhere it was a spicy take.

    The zone storylines tend to be good, hell even the concurrent/conclusion storyline (Zandalar Forever/Rescue Jaina) can be good.

    But whenever that stops and we go back to the "main" plot with the pre-existing characters starts back up, the quality swan dives into a shallow pond. It was like that for Shadowlands too, I thought the individual chapters of the levelling story were a neat introduction to the expansion, then I hit level 60 and we were back to Sylvanas and Bradd Pitt being sad and I got bored.
    This is less bad writing and more focusing on only one character throughout the expansion which SL is(And its Anduin not Brad pitt -_-).
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  7. #56267
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    This is less bad writing and more focusing on only one character throughout the expansion which SL is(And its Anduin not Brad pitt -_-).
    He looks too much like him. Sad Pitt, then.
    Last edited by Veluren; 2022-05-15 at 02:00 PM.

  8. #56268
    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that because I was told elsewhere it was a spicy take.

    The zone storylines tend to be good, hell even the concurrent/conclusion storyline (Zandalar Forever/Rescue Jaina) can be good.

    But whenever that stops and we go back to the "main" plot with the pre-existing characters starts back up, the quality swan dives into a shallow pond. It was like that for Shadowlands too, I thought the individual chapters of the levelling story were a neat introduction to the expansion, then I hit level 60 and we were back to Sylvanas and Bradd Pitt being sad and I got bored.
    I'm also glad I'm not the only one feeling this way. A long time ago, I said I never quite found much to like about the core cast of characters in this game, but it's always the world content that's consistently kept me engaged despite that. I'm eagerly awaiting to see what they do on the Dragon Isles, but for once I'm actually intrigued what they'll also do for the main storyline too.

  9. #56269
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Personally Stormsong was the better zone compared to Drustvar. Tiragarde sound is only slightly better then Drustvar in terms of story(Cause pirates and me don't mesh well at all).
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  10. #56270
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Personally Stormsong was the better zone compared to Drustvar. Tiragarde sound is only slightly better then Drustvar in terms of story(Cause pirates and me don't mesh well at all).
    The main storyline in Stormsong was excellent but the sidestories less so. The Horde invasion one was solid if grim but the quillboar one and the landbound pirates? Yikes. The naga one also was shallow.

  11. #56271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    He looks too much like him. Sad Pitt, then.
    What's weird as hell is that his high-end cinematic model and his in-game cinematic and in-engine/in-game models look nothing alike. They're blonde and attractive but that's about it. "Sad Pitt" is about right for the cinematic one - he's a combination of Brad Pitt and Leonardo Di Caprio, a tiny-nose'd, slightly child-like-looking guy. Whereas in-engine/in-game, he's got a big solid nose like his dad and much less childlike face (he looks young, but definitely an adult), more like a combination of, I dunno Dan Stevens and Liam Neeson (but young).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think it probably just shows how poor the oversight is when it comes to lore. Compare it to other fantasy fiction franchises and you can see it's problematic.
    I mean, I'd question what you're comparing WoW to here. It's going to be very difficult to find an apple to do an apples to apples comparison with. FFXIV does a lot better but took a fundamentally different, story-centric approach from the get go. But GW2? That's all over the place even when it's trying to be story-centric. GW2's storytelling in the original game and in the couple of years of the living story was truly awful. Like unbearably bad. People cringe violently at the name "Trahearne" to this day.

    And WoW's narrative cohesion is at its worst in Cataclysm. I mean, we can not like the storylines in more recent expansions, but Cataclysm was easily the least coherent, most confused, and most contradictory writing WoW has ever seen on multiple levels. Not just between character behaviour and motivations, but literally in terms of what was going on, and particularly in terms of tone, where you whiplash from stuff that's supposed to be moving to stuff that's supposed to be an absolutely idiotic joke told at insane length and back and forth, and where entire zone storylines can be elaborate dumb "jokes". I can only blame cocaine, mountains of cocaine. Nothing but coke would ever explain Uldum.

    Every expansion since they've done a better job in terms of a coherent narrative (though I wouldn't say they necessarily get better every expansion in that regard, just stay higher than Vanilla through Cata in terms of coherent narratives/characterisation).
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2022-05-15 at 08:47 PM.
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  12. #56272
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Personally Stormsong was the better zone compared to Drustvar. Tiragarde sound is only slightly better then Drustvar in terms of story(Cause pirates and me don't mesh well at all).
    Have to disagree.
    While much of the Stormsong story worked, this was more because the concept was so good, when I would argue that the lackluster and extremely short storyline, in addition to the lack of an overarching flow to the zones meant that you lost most of the opportunity to have really cool Shadow over Innsmouth storytelling.

    The Drustvar one works far better because it uses all the time and space it has available to tell a solid story where pretty much all the sidestories weave a greater tale of the Drust Invasion, all leading up to that amazing dungeon.

    Half the story in Stormsong is spent on just meekly setting up the shipbuilding element, and by the time you get to the really meaty Old God stuff the story is basically over.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #56273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The main storyline in Stormsong was excellent but the sidestories less so. The Horde invasion one was solid if grim but the quillboar one and the landbound pirates? Yikes. The naga one also was shallow.
    Let's not forget about honey elementals!
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  14. #56274
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Let's not forget about honey elementals!
    *Cough* Ale elementals *Cough*

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  15. #56275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    He looks too much like him. Sad Pitt, then.
    You're confusing Brad Pitt and Hercules, and insulting both by doing so

  16. #56276
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    That's objectively untrue. You don't "hold off" on a storyline for 20 years. Nothing in Shadowlands was "in the works from the start." We've had 3 different creative teams on this franchise since then.
    It wasn't being held off. Sylvanas' being set up as a villain had been sown since vanilla. Sylvanas only caring about her own self interest has been built up time and time again throughout the game, again starting in vanilla. The only people that chose to ignore that were those that adored Sylvanas and only saw what they wanted to see.

  17. #56277
    Quote Originally Posted by SloidVoid View Post
    It wasn't being held off. Sylvanas' being set up as a villain had been sown since vanilla. Sylvanas only caring about her own self interest has been built up time and time again throughout the game, again starting in vanilla. The only people that chose to ignore that were those that adored Sylvanas and only saw what they wanted to see.
    It pleases me greatly to see the battle hardened join our cause. Our numbers grow in size and strength as each day passes. Perhaps you are prepared to test your mettle, <class>?

    Among the first of my champions was Nathanos, now known as the Blightcaller. Few exist with more dedication or vigor amidst our ranks.

    Seek him out in the Eastern Plaguelands. He resides at the Marris Stead; occasionally roaming the decimated wastes, slaying all Scourge and Alliance filth that cross his path.
    That's the entirety of Sylvanas' dialog in Vanilla WoW. Really planting the ominous narrative seeds there. /s

    They had to specify that she didn't start working for the Jailer until the end of Legion. Because the alternative doesn't make any sense. It's like when people try to say "Daenerys was always a monster" when she threatens a guy who killed all her friends in book 2 of ASOIAF. It's sad.

  18. #56278
    Quote Originally Posted by SloidVoid View Post
    It wasn't being held off. Sylvanas' being set up as a villain had been sown since vanilla. Sylvanas only caring about her own self interest has been built up time and time again throughout the game, again starting in vanilla. The only people that chose to ignore that were those that adored Sylvanas and only saw what they wanted to see.
    Sylvanas villainous nature in vanilla was entirely bent to revenge. After Cata it seemed to then pivot to self-interest and self-preservation. The novel tries to convince us that it was benevolence untempered by compassion and that the main argument for omnicide was how unfair it is people don't spend an eternity in heaven with their loved ones.

  19. #56279
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Sylvanas villainous nature in vanilla was entirely bent to revenge. After Cata it seemed to then pivot to self-interest and self-preservation. The novel tries to convince us that it was benevolence untempered by compassion and that the main argument for omnicide was how unfair it is people don't spend an eternity in heaven with their loved ones.
    It didn't try to convince us, it managed to convince. The book fixed Sylvanas' arc (together with 9.2) that's why it's so bad they hold of with it 'till Shadowlands was over. It should have been the prequel instead of the epilogue.

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  20. #56280
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    It didn't try to convince us, it managed to convince. The book fixed Sylvanas' arc (together with 9.2) that's why it's so bad they hold of with it 'till Shadowlands was over. It should have been the prequel instead of the epilogue.
    Well yes cool, it managed to convince you.

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