1. #57241
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    We saved their asses and their lands. Threats has been defeated/pushed back, so they should have less duties and be grateful. They can now travel to our realm. This is how it goes with many AR's. We helped big time Nightborns, Mechagnomes, Kul Tirans, Zanalari and more. we proved ourselves to them, so now they join us.
    This doesn’t make any sense. Covenant ARs have no reason to join us, compared to the current allied races.

    They still have their duties, defeating The Jailer doesn’t mean they don’t have anything to do. If anything our helping them gave them even more work.

    Now that no more souls are entering The Maw, the Venthyr have a lot more souls to make repent.

    The Kyrian still have to ferry souls to The Shadowlands.
    The list goes on.

    Plus they could always travel to our realm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If next expansion was another cosmic expansion then I’d understand covenant ARs coming in…

    But it’s not. There’s no reason why the Kyrian would decide to stop ferrying souls to go and run around a random island that has nothing to do with them or The Shadowlands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
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  2. #57242
    Not every Kyrian has to go to Azeroth.

    Maybe some of them are just like "Hm, maybe there is more to life than just doing this forever, maybe we should broaden our horizon a bit so we can actually judge people better!". Necrolords are the easiest to justify, Night Fae and Venthyr are a bit harder.

    Even then, wasn't there a datamined quest of Shadowlands races coming to sightsee Azeroth?

  3. #57243
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutineer View Post
    Oh, it's not that I think they couldn't do it, it's just I think the result will be kind of disappointing. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but I think a large part of the appeal of these races is their fashion sense, and if you make them playable, you largely strip that away outside of one very specific set of heritage armor.
    All of the Covenant races would look great with any Shadowlands set though. It's like they were made for them.

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  4. #57244
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    But it’s not. There’s no reason why the Kyrian would decide to stop ferrying souls to go and run around a random island that has nothing to do with them or The Shadowlands.
    Why not? A few got attached and help out in pro-active efforts to protect the Shadowlands. There doesn't need to be any grand reason because we've are now connected. It could even be as simple as the brokers working out a deal for protection. Or Theotar taking a band of Venthyr to in search or the universes greatest tea.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  5. #57245
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Not every Kyrian has to go to Azeroth.

    Maybe some of them are just like "Hm, maybe there is more to life than just doing this forever, maybe we should broaden our horizon a bit so we can actually judge people better!". Necrolords are the easiest to justify, Night Fae and Venthyr are a bit harder.

    Even then, wasn't there a datamined quest of Shadowlands races coming to sightsee Azeroth?
    Necrolords only deal with threats to the shadowlands, hince why they were doing stuff against the legion.

    The datamined quest was night fae people, and I’m pretty sure it was cut from the game.
    They could’ve had plans for SL allied races but cut them for obvious reasons.

    EDIT: Also Kyrian aren’t meant to judge people or else you get situations like with Uther/Arthas…
    Which is why they were/are forced to give up their memories.
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2022-05-26 at 07:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
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  6. #57246
    I mean they fucked up any gravity for Death and the Shadowlands by now so why not. They already have mogs and everything that fits them. Give them the utility covenant abilities as a form of racial and they'd work just fine.

  7. #57247
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean they fucked up any gravity for Death and the Shadowlands by now so why not. They already have mogs and everything that fits them. Give them the utility covenant abilities as a form of racial and they'd work just fine.
    Except they didn't but I went over this.
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  8. #57248
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    Given the stories we just went through with Shadowlands, each of the covenants we met up with could have valid reasons for fighting alongside the mortal races.

    • Kyrians just had their entire way of afterlife changed due to a mortal showing them the importance of keeping one's memories & one's self identity. They still have much to learn about the world, the mortals can teach them quite a bit.
    • The Maldraxxi are always up for a good fight, and the mortal races of Azeroth were instrumental in the biggest fight they've had yet. Plus with the Primus having such a strong military mind, he'd see the wisdom in continuing the relationship with the mortal races in case further help is needed.
    • Given that Elune tried to give her favored people to Ardenweald as a gift to her sister, the Winter Queen well could choose to repay in kind by sending guardians to help the remaining few of Elune's favored children.
    • The Venthyr have now with the new Arbiter lost their greatest asset, a place to send souls beyond redemption. They have also lost their leader & creator, now being run instead by his son. To better learn how to bring repentance to those most lost, they can learn much from fighting at the side of mortals.

  9. #57249
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Except they didn't but I went over this.
    They did not what? Fuck up the gravity of Death?

  10. #57250
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Necrolords only deal with threats to the shadowlands, hince why they were doing stuff against the legion.
    Right, and the those threats sometimes take them outside of the Shadowlands. So they can easily just be pro-active and send a coalition of covenant forces since they have all been united and fighting together in their recent memories.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #57251
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Kyrian, Venthyr, Night Fae and Gladiators are functionally Angels, Vampires, Fauns and Giants - are all just as core to fantasy RPG tropes as Elves and Orcs. But most importantly they are all cool as fuck.
    Fair enough, but aren't there races from Azeroth or Draenor that fill those other tropes? For vampires we have San'layn, for fauns we have satyr, and for giants we have vrykul and ogres. I'll give you angels though, there's nothing quite like them I can think of.

    Selfishly, I'm just not very fond of the idea of people from the afterlives coming to fight for the Alliance and Horde, but I'd get over it if they did end up playable.
    Last edited by Mutineer; 2022-05-26 at 07:16 PM.

  12. #57252
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    [*]The Venthyr have now with the new Arbiter lost their greatest asset, a place to send souls beyond redemption. They have also lost their leader & creator, now being run instead by his son. To better learn how to bring repentance to those most lost, they can learn much from fighting at the side of mortals.[/LIST]

    Is this confirmed? Because everything points to the Maw still being used for those who beyond redemption. Just as it was prior to the Jailer being imprisoned there. They didn't loose anyone that needs to know how to bring repentance as the major figures were either replaced or eventually sided with Renethal. It is the whole deal with the sigils they had.

    Of course any reason can bring the Venthyr to Azeroth. I'm just commenting on how that specific example doesn't mesh with lore.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #57253
    My main question is, why would they ally with the factions. I can see Night Fae going Alliance due to Elune/Night Elves. The rest? Ascended could be a few of them following Uther and thus Alliance? Would we have Draka and Kael'thas back as well in a similar way?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Is this confirmed? Because everything points to the Maw still being used for those who beyond redemption. Just as it was prior to the Jailer being imprisoned there. They didn't loose anyone that needs to know how to bring repentance as the major figures were either replaced or eventually sided with Renethal. It is the whole deal with the sigils they had.

    Of course any reason can bring the Venthyr to Azeroth. I'm just commenting on how that specific example doesn't mesh with lore.
    Yeah this is how I understood it as well. The Arbiter is not going to send anyone directly to the Maw (but really, it seemed they almost never did anyway, looking at some of the Sinstones in Revendreth). But that doesn't mean that the Venthyr cannot just drop any unrepentant souls into the Maw.

  14. #57254
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutineer View Post
    Fair enough, but aren't there races from Azeroth or Draenor that fill those other tropes? For vampires we have San'layn, for fauns we have satyr, and for giants we have vrykul and ogres. I'll give you angels though, there's nothing quite like them I can think of.

    Selfishly, I'm just not very fond of the idea of people from the afterlives coming to fight for the Alliance and Horde, but I'd get over it if people from the Shadowlands did end up playable.
    The Val’kyr / whatever the Guardian of Ancient Kings are could both fill the angel fantasy.
    And they both have actual reason to be doing things on Azeroth, particularly with Dragons/Titan stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
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  15. #57255
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutineer View Post
    Fair enough, but aren't there races from Azeroth or Draenor that fill those other tropes? For vampires we have San'layn, for fauns we have satyr, and for giants we have vrykul and ogres. I'll give you angels though, there's nothing quite like them I can think of.
    Also there are Gron as a few other races escaped to Azeroth when the Mag'har were brought over. I hope we get to explore those other races making a home on Azeroth some day. It really is a clever way of keeping them around with out having to ever visit AU-Dreanor again.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #57256
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutineer View Post
    Fair enough, but aren't there races from Azeroth or Draenor that fill those other tropes? For vampires we have San'layn, for fauns we have satyr, and for giants we have vrykul and ogres. I'll give you angels though, there's nothing quite like them I can think of.

    Selfishly, I'm just not very fond of the idea of people from the afterlives coming to fight for the Alliance and Horde, but I'd get over it if people from the Shadowlands did end up playable.
    San'layn are Elves first, vampires second. The vampire trope deserves more than a half measure.

    Satyr in WoW are Demons and don't quite fit the woodland protector trope that is traditionally associated with Fauns. I suppose we could have gotten uncorrupted Satyr but they'd just be mutated Night Elves in the end.

    Ogres, Vrykul, Naga, Murlocs, Gnolls, etc despite being perfectly viable playable races, I think take their places in the monsters and creatures category. They are too good and reliable as punching bags for the game.

  17. #57257
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    The Val’kyr / whatever the Guardian of Ancient Kings are could both fill the angel fantasy.
    And they both have actual reason to be doing things on Azeroth, particularly with Dragons/Titan stuff.
    Oh that's a great point, I don't know how I totally forgot about them, but for sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Also there are Gron as a few other races escaped to Azeroth when the Mag'har were brought over. I hope we get to explore those other races making a home on Azeroth some day. It really is a clever way of keeping them around with out having to ever visit AU-Dreanor again.
    Yeah, there's a lot of potential there that's currently unexplored. This is the sort of stuff I'd love to see.

  18. #57258
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrexia View Post
    There's also lore implications, if they bring back the covenants races to the world of the living then Death will mean nothing to the world anymore as people can just come back... it's complicated.. I personally believe after we leave the Shadowlands canonically those portals close behind us leaving no passage to the world of the dead, whether this happens we don't know.
    I mean, we already have seen that happen.

    Dreadlords originated there and are now all over the damn place. We saw Aggra on a non-Shadowlands world in her cinematic. They can come to other worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Covenant allied races make no sense lore wise going forward.

    Why would a Kyrian/Venthyr/Maldraxxi ever decide “Ok time to take a break from our sacred/essential duties to The Shadowlands to go explore a random dragon island on some planet that poses no threat to the shadowlands.”

    Or why would said covenant races chose to integrate with the alliance or horde like the Pandaren/Dracthyr.
    As I recall there's a kyrian who talks about visiting other places, and says something along the lines of "maybe I'll visit your world too someday!"

    (Mind I'm not one who thinks they will end up a player race, but I don't think it is entirely impossible either)

  19. #57259
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Is this confirmed? Because everything points to the Maw still being used for those who beyond redemption. Just as it was prior to the Jailer being imprisoned there. They didn't loose anyone that needs to know how to bring repentance as the major figures were either replaced or eventually sided with Renethal. It is the whole deal with the sigils they had.

    Of course any reason can bring the Venthyr to Azeroth. I'm just commenting on how that specific example doesn't mesh with lore.
    I think this one is more implied than confirmed. We know that Pelagos doesn't believe that anything that can happen in a mortal lifetime deserves going to the Maw, he says as much. That's up to and including things like the mass genocide that Sylvanas caused. We also see Sylvanas sent down to find every last soul in the Maw & send them up to Pelagos, even the ones that were sent there by the previous Arbiter and/or the denizens of Revendreth. If even a single soul is sent down before Sylvanas' task is done, she has to send it back up to Pelagos to be judged again. In addition, we know that every soul will have a voice in where they are sent, Pelagos tells us this as well. With that in mind, it's difficult if not impossible to see many if any situations where a soul like Garrosh would go to the Maw rather than going somewhere like Maldraxxus to fight instead.

  20. #57260
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    The Val’kyr / whatever the Guardian of Ancient Kings are could both fill the angel fantasy.
    And they both have actual reason to be doing things on Azeroth, particularly with Dragons/Titan stuff.
    IMO Kyrian are the round about way of enabling playable Spirit Healers. Val'kyr are Kyrian derivatives, better to have the OGs.

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