Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

Twilight Highlands? Uldum? Mt. Hyjal? Slapping a fresh coat of paint on existing zones is the same thing as creating a new zone because you are creating a new zone. They don't need to revamp the world in order to zones for an expansion because we've already seen them do so for Darkshore, Arathi Highlands, and Vale of Eternal Blossoms. Where they revamp just what is needed for the story.

There is no real story line to continue in existing zones.

Then you have to consider that disconnected zones never seem to work for WoW, so you combine the zones.

And hey presto you have a world revamp. You go to a revamped version of Searing Gorge where you fight Dark Iron Dwarf rebels instead of just regular Dark Iron Dwarves and generally have a good time in zones you enjoy.

Uldum and Hyjal, and to a lesser extent Twilight Highlands already existed on the map back in Vanilla, so you didn't have to stretch as far to say why you never visited these areas.
Now there are not really any areas like that. You could have islands, but that is just again not really solving anything compared to reusing old zones, giving them the Darkshore or Arathi treatment, and then using them as practically new zones.

[The Stormbringer]

You can get inflicted by the worgen curse and transform temporarily in Duskwood. Does not stop you from using Monk animations.

Yeah, that too. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the only "limitations" for adding a Monk would be throwing a trainer into every starter zone (really not difficult) and making sure they can go to the Monk training place.

[Nyel]

Then you have to consider that disconnected zones never seem to work for WoW, so you combine the zones.

Says who? They tried it once in Cataclysm and people were critical about it. In Vanilla it pretty much worked (because it had to?). Or are you talking about BfA?

[Wangming]

Yeah, that too. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the only "limitations" for adding a Monk would be throwing a trainer into every starter zone (really not difficult) and making sure they can go to the Monk training place.

That shouldn't be too hard. If I were game director, I would make it a feature.

Honestly, while race/class restrictions do add to racial identity and lore, we had too many cooperations for it to make sense. The Argent Crusade, the Cenarion Circle, the Earthen Ring and the Kirin Tor has been working with every race already.

[Sondrelk]

Says who? They tried it once in Cataclysm and people were critical about it. In Vanilla it pretty much worked (because it had to?). Or are you talking about BfA?

I am talking about Cata, BfA, and Shadowlands. All expansion with disconnected zones. Never seems to really work out.
It might have worked back in Vanilla, but then the game was much more focused on the world aspect, so the long travel times were considered part of the intended experience, but now the playerbase is seemingly allergic to choices like that, so who knows.

[The Stormbringer]

That shouldn't be too hard. If I were game director, I would make it a feature.

Honestly, while race/class restrictions do add to racial identity and lore, we had too many cooperations for it to make sense. The Argent Crusade, the Cenarion Circle, the Earthen Ring and the Kirin Tor has been working with every race already.

I never really understood the whole "why would there be a Pandaren there?!" thing. Pandaren are known wanderers, travelers. They love exploring shit. You're telling me a Pandaren Monk wouldn't be able to find a way into Gilneas, or onto Kezan?

[Hugnomo]

Probably whelp cloak transmogs, and whatever the "emerald drake" mount actually is. Maybe a chromatic weapon enchant transmog and maybe an armor set or something.

Yeah, that's what I'm setting my expectations on. But don't we sometimes get next expac upgrades in the pre patch, like new spell animations, customization, things like that?

[Lahis]

I never really understood the whole "why would there be a Pandaren there?!" thing. Pandaren are known wanderers, travelers. They love exploring shit. You're telling me a Pandaren Monk wouldn't be able to find a way into Gilneas, or onto Kezan?

Pandaren aren't really traveller's though. Mainland Pandaren were content to stay in their continent, hidden behind the mists and even those on Wandering Isle were leaving the turtle less and less as generations went by.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, that's what I'm setting my expectations on. But don't we sometimes get next expac upgrades in the pre patch, like new spell animations, customization, things like that?

The pre-patch is the full new expansion, you just don't get to actually play it until the expansion officially releases. Everything that is supposed to be in the expansion like gear, quests, or similar are technically there.

[rhorle]

And hey presto you have a world revamp. You go to a revamped version of Searing Gorge where you fight Dark Iron Dwarf rebels instead of just regular Dark Iron Dwarves and generally have a good time in zones you enjoy.

So wouldn't that just be disconnected because searing gorge alone won't make an expansion? Neither would Dark Iron rebels. If disconnected zones don't work then a world revamp wouldn't because it would be a bunch of non-connected mini-stories, right?

[Raetary]

There is no real story line to continue in existing zones.

There's no storyline in Kul Tiras and Zandalar until there was.
There's no storyline on the Broken Isles until there was.
There's no Draenor related storyline, until there was one again.

What kind of an argument is that supposed to be?
There are more than enough stories to explore on Azeroth, anything from what the Quilboar and the Grimtotem are up to, to how the Plaguelands are fairing.
Relations between the nelves and the horde, what the Botani, Saberon, the Goren are up to, whatever the rebelling Dark Iron are up to, are the Ogres doing anything? surely there is some sect of crazy void elves to kill? how did *literally everyone* deal with the rampaging scourge? etc. etc.

Or better yet, they can... *gasp* come up with brand new stories entirely.

[Nymrohd]

There's no storyline in Kul Tiras and Zandalar until there was.
There's no storyline on the Broken Isles until there was.
There's no Draenor related storyline, until there was one again.

What kind of an argument is that supposed to be?
There are more than enough stories to explore on Azeroth, anything from what the Quilboar and the Grimtotem are up to, to how the Plaguelands are fairing.
Relations between the nelves and the horde, what the Botani, Saberon, the Goren are up to, whatever the rebelling Dark Iron are up to, are the Ogres doing anything? surely there is some sect of crazy void elves to kill? how did *literally everyone* deal with the rampaging scourge? etc. etc.

Or better yet, they can... *gasp* come up with brand new stories entirely.

Heck the quest storylines of the classic zones rarely explored the history and cultures of the zones anyway. The main thing they can do by revisiting zones is world building. It's what Pandaria and to a lesser extend WoD did well. Like, look at Spires of Arak or Dread Wastes. By the end of questing you know the story of the zones, its inhabitants and their cultures, even of some of the settlements.

[Sondrelk]

So wouldn't that just be disconnected because searing gorge alone won't make an expansion? Neither would Dark Iron rebels. If disconnected zones don't work then a world revamp wouldn't because it would be a bunch of non-connected mini-stories, right?

Consider the entire EK, in the south you have human storylines, pirates, and trolls. Middle you have Dwarves, Ragnaros, and general cultists and dragons. North you have Forsaken, Worgen, Belf, and scourge storylines.

Most of the older zones are quite sparse compared to never ones, so realistically one new zone is probably about equal to two or three old ones, so just combine several zones into one for gameplay and story purposes and you are good. You could even segment off a couple more for patch content or more niche stuff like PvP.

Stories in expansions are usually tied together with one broad overarching storyline, with several seemingly disconnected storylines for each area. Even more so when you consider that you usually have one area that gets designated the intro raid experience, and another that becomes fleshed out in patch content.

In short, just imagine a version of EK where you have five larger zones, with maybe a couple of smaller intro zones around important cities like Stormwind and Undercity.

[rhorle]

There's no storyline in Kul Tiras and Zandalar until there was.
There's no storyline on the Broken Isles until there was.
There's no Draenor related storyline, until there was one again.

Those were all zones that didn't exist prior to their expansion. The point is that the story lines of the existing zones have nothing to be continued. For example how will we continue the rambo-style story line of Red Ridge mountains in a revamp? Another re-hash with an attack? What about Duskwood? Or any of the zones that would be revamped to have their story line continued?

Cataclysm had most zone stories resolve. Expansion have most of their stories resolve with in the expansion. You can't continue stories that are already resolved. Coming up with something brand new isn't continuing the existing story, right? It is hilarious how you are proving my point while at the same time thinking you are not.

[loras]

Heck the quest storylines of the classic zones rarely explored the history and cultures of the zones anyway. The main thing they can do by revisiting zones is world building. It's what Pandaria and to a lesser extend WoD did well. Like, look at Spires of Arak or Dread Wastes. By the end of questing you know the story of the zones, its inhabitants and their cultures, even of some of the settlements.

Very good points.

[Hugnomo]

The pre-patch is the full new expansion, you just don't get to actually play it until the expansion officially releases. Everything that is supposed to be in the expansion like gear, quests, or similar are technically there.

Right. Thank you

[Wangming]

I never really understood the whole "why would there be a Pandaren there?!" thing. Pandaren are known wanderers, travelers. They love exploring shit. You're telling me a Pandaren Monk wouldn't be able to find a way into Gilneas, or onto Kezan?

Or just explain to me like a bar brawler guild and just switch to regular monks after the starting zone. Like how Gilnean Druids started off as harvest witches,

[Luck4]

I enjoyed seeing this follow-up in 9.2.5 of BFA lore more than any story points in Shadowlands.

I hope a World Revamp will happen someday, but I will not hold my breath.

[The Stormbringer]

Pandaren aren't really traveller's though. Mainland Pandaren were content to stay in their continent, hidden behind the mists and even those on Wandering Isle were leaving the turtle less and less as generations went by.

And yet there are Pandaren in every other starting zone, including Azuremyst and Eversong, the farthest they can get from Pandaria.

[Makabreska]

And yet there are Pandaren in every other starting zone, including Azuremyst and Eversong, the farthest they can get from Pandaria.

Ye well, because of gameplay. It's a remnant of the times when you needed each of class trainers in a starting zone.

But it could be both reasons for them to be there.