1. #57581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Arbitrarily prolonging the torture and agony of every soul in there, for the sake of punishing a singular person.
    It's absolutely fucking nuts.
    The Maw never made sense in the first place. If souls were too irredeemable for Revendreth they should just be destroyed and reduced into anima. There's no point to dumping the super worst souls into one place.

  2. #57582
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    The Maw never made sense in the first place. If souls were too irredeemable for Revendreth they should just be destroyed and reduced into anima. There's no point to dumping the super worst souls into one place.

    Except no, the purpose was to punish them forever for being such horrible souls. It did make sense and that anima would be very minimal at best.
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  3. #57583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Except no, the purpose was to punish them forever for being such horrible souls. It did make sense and that anima would be very minimal at best.
    That literally makes no sense. There is no point to punishing the souls unlike Revendreth they aren't doing anything after. It's a massive waste of resources. There is no opposing afterlife of permanent arbitrary reward. It was a "hell" knockoff and a ridiculously illogical one per the rest of the story.

  4. #57584
    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    That literally makes no sense. There is no point to punishing the souls unlike Revendreth they aren't doing anything after. It's a massive waste of resources. There is no opposing afterlife of permanent arbitrary reward. It was a "hell" knockoff and a ridiculously illogical one per the rest of the story.
    Why would there need to be an opposition for it to make sense?

    There's no opposing judiciary system that rewards people being good and doing good things, but we still have laws with punishments.

  5. #57585
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    Venthyr are an extremely popular request on the forums, when not getting drowned out by heckling from people crying they're not San'layn, and are popular on art websites, twitter, ect.

    While it's mainly focused on Venthyr due to the popularity of vampires, they are absolutely a popular request.
    The other 3 not so much, but all 4 covenants don't really need to become playable. Kyrian and Venthyr, or Venthyr and the fauns would actually be plenty.

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    The "vampire" thing is a wholly fanon concept; the "bat ears" are already pretty much doable with the short elf ears in general.
    I've already recreated the wanted aesthetic on a void elf multiple times over, especially using stuff like the mage ICC set. All that's missing for belfs is the undead skins, and red eyes for velfs and belfs and they both have the look.

    People are asking for them to make something wholly new to appease aesthetic requests that already pretty much there.
    Why it makes no sense as a race, especially when every race can be a vampire through Blood DKs.
    With that I mean there will probably be nothing that links them to the san layn. I dont see this as fandom, but just a direct to the new lore we got in the book, that both dark rangers and sanlayn are the same race. Meaning if they went for a full allied race then yes it should be included, but like I said I doubt this eill be the casr and will end in s mere eye color/skin option. Nah I would dissagree, bat ears dont look like that in wow and striped hair is what we hsve seen with the blood princes. Anyway, it will not fulfill as we all know.

  6. #57586
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    With that I mean there will probably be nothing that links them to the san layn. I dont see this as fandom, but just a direct to the new lore we got in the book, that both dark rangers and sanlayn are the same race. Meaning if they went for a full allied race then yes it should be included, but like I said I doubt this eill be the casr and will end in s mere eye color/skin option. Nah I would dissagree, bat ears dont look like that in wow and striped hair is what we hsve seen with the blood princes. Anyway, it will not fulfill as we all know.
    Frankly, the AR thing also hits a wall with the hair styles Void Elves got. Both genders have a few hair styles that are directly influenced by vampires in pop culture. We could wind up sharing them if that's the case, but I have a feeling they're just gonna go for that gothic aesthetic there, while unlocking the undead skins and red eyes for blood elves to appease people just as they did with high elves recently.
    And frankly, that feels extremely fair, and sort of events out an aesthetic trade the Nightborne were without screwing the Horde out of their aesthetic request entirely. (It also matches how Alliance high elves were handled; giving both races a popular subrace option.)

    All DKs should have access to red eyes too at this point because vampirism isn't exclusive to just elves, Blood's entire kit is vampiric, but tossing blood elves a bone here isn't going to screw over vampires for everybody, and it doesn't screw void elves over on their energy vampirism either.

    There's an "everybody wins" scenario with the concept and it's kind of depressing they haven't done anything about it until now potentially.
    Last edited by Schwert; 2022-05-28 at 01:33 AM.

  7. #57587
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    Frankly, the AR thing also hits a wall with the hair styles Void Elves got. Both genders have a few hair styles that are directly influenced by vampires in pop culture. We could wind up sharing them if that's the case, but I have a feeling they're just gonna go for that gothic aesthetic there, while unlocking the undead skins and red eyes for blood elves to appease people just as they did with high elves recently.
    And frankly, that feels extremely fair, and sort of events out an aesthetic trade the Nightborne were without screwing the Horde out of their aesthetic request entirely. (It also matches how Alliance high elves were handled; giving both races a popular subrace option.)

    All DKs should have access to red eyes too at this point because vampirism isn't exclusive to just elves, Blood's entire kit is vampiric, but tossing blood elves a bone here isn't going to screw over vampires for everybody, and it doesn't screw void elves over on their energy vampirism either.

    There's an "everybody wins" scenario with the concept and it's kind of depressing they haven't done anything about it until now potentially.
    You've just reminded me that Void Elf, despite getting copy-pasted options from Blood Elves, have very weak hairstyles. They were one of the original four AR to be added and Nightborne, Highmountain Tauren, and Lightforged Draenei have ALL gotten the Shadowlands customization options.

    Void Elves got (in my opinion) the worst end of the stick. Their hairstyles are very outdated at this point, and there is just so little actual customization for them. I was really hoping that they'd go in and add more customizations to DF, Undead got very paltry additions as well where they could have really given them some unique and fun options. I just wish they would just open all the Blood Elf hairstyles to Void Elves, if they're going to be that stingy.

  8. #57588
    Quote Originally Posted by Atriel View Post
    You've just reminded me that Void Elf, despite getting copy-pasted options from Blood Elves, have very weak hairstyles. They were one of the original four AR to be added and Nightborne, Highmountain Tauren, and Lightforged Draenei have ALL gotten the Shadowlands customization options.

    Void Elves got (in my opinion) the worst end of the stick. Their hairstyles are very outdated at this point, and there is just so little actual customization for them. I was really hoping that they'd go in and add more customizations to DF, Undead got very paltry additions as well where they could have really given them some unique and fun options. I just wish they would just open all the Blood Elf hairstyles to Void Elves, if they're going to be that stingy.
    I'd prefer they keep them distinct, and with the natural hair/skin colours, the hair styles are really the only way to do that with the high elf sub race attached now.

    But yeah, they absolutely launched in a state that was not much better than Nightborne, VOID elves didn't launch with black hair, and only got a bunch of literal copy-pasted assets in 9.1.5. They really deserve to get some stuff of their own when the time comes.
    Better "void" skin colours (black plz), red / old god / black eyes, and the ability to select your tentacle colour and glow are sorely needed, and just as blood elves are in need of them too, tattoos and more jewellery options, especially for the men.

    I constantly joke elsewhere we need Zenos (FF XIV) hair to be the weeb mirror to the Blood Elf Sephiroth hair.

    It's off topic though.
    Finish Darkfallen, go back and fix up the void kit for void elves, and then give both blood/void elves tattoos already.
    Customization never felt finished.

  9. #57589
    Can't wait for Tuesday so the AR thing can be put to a rest one way or another.

    Also, I remember sending feedback for Void Elves to get black hair soon after they launched. It's something so tiny, but I was so annoyed about it and then they *finally* add it like what, 2-3 years later? lmao

  10. #57590
    Feels like so much drama and "painful speculation" just would not be happening if they did customization passes more often, and actually checked with the community to see if they're nailing it.

    But I'm probably a weird outlier because I mostly play worgen, void elves (not high elves), male night elves, and tauren now, and all those races have some major issues. (ex: worgen / tauren need mane colours separate to the fur, and more colours in general, male nelf needs their posture fixed, void elves need actual void eyes, ect ect.)

    I'm just seriously hoping they see the backlash about it, how excited people are about the potentials going on, and realize that yeah, maybe they should do another round. Heck, the AR's aren't even "done" yet. Poor Dark Irons got nothing, but a ton of potential. (Blue fire?)

  11. #57591
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    The Maw never made sense in the first place. If souls were too irredeemable for Revendreth they should just be destroyed and reduced into anima. There's no point to dumping the super worst souls into one place.
    That is what the Maw is doing though. I forget where it was hinted at but I remember it being said that eventually souls will fade into anima so not everyone who ever dies is in some afterlife somewhere. They will eventually become one with the rest of death and the drought made majority of the non-covenant afterlives fade away because there were no souls to keep powering them.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  12. #57592
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    That is what the Maw is doing though. I forget where it was hinted at but I remember it being said that eventually souls will fade into anima so not everyone who ever dies is in some afterlife somewhere. They will eventually become one with the rest of death and the drought made majority of the non-covenant afterlives fade away because there were no souls to keep powering them.
    I think the Maw burns down everything to stygia over time. Everything we see in the Maw is made from Stygia, we are literally walking on the ashes of the damned.

  13. #57593
    Quote Originally Posted by wowrefugee View Post
    Can't wait for Tuesday so the AR thing can be put to a rest one way or another.
    Hah you're too hopeful.

    Nothing happens and people will still hope for a later reveal.

  14. #57594
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    Quote Originally Posted by wowrefugee View Post
    Can't wait for Tuesday so the AR thing can be put to a rest one way or another.

    Also, I remember sending feedback for Void Elves to get black hair soon after they launched. It's something so tiny, but I was so annoyed about it and then they *finally* add it like what, 2-3 years later? lmao
    It's really why the community behaves in such a negative way to the wishes of any person in it. We get things added eventually but at a glacial pace so any person getting what they want means the rest will now have to wait for even more years.

  15. #57595
    How would it fit, from a lore perspective, being able to choose red eyes and “undead” skin for Blood Elves or Night Elves? Thinking about creating a new character and questing through the starting areas for said races… wouldn’t it be a bit weird? But well, we already got sand Trolls, I guess?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    Feels like so much drama and "painful speculation" just would not be happening if they did customization passes more often, and actually checked with the community to see if they're nailing it.

    But I'm probably a weird outlier because I mostly play worgen, void elves (not high elves), male night elves, and tauren now, and all those races have some major issues. (ex: worgen / tauren need mane colours separate to the fur, and more colours in general, male nelf needs their posture fixed, void elves need actual void eyes, ect ect.)

    I'm just seriously hoping they see the backlash about it, how excited people are about the potentials going on, and realize that yeah, maybe they should do another round. Heck, the AR's aren't even "done" yet. Poor Dark Irons got nothing, but a ton of potential. (Blue fire?)
    I feel you. Playing a lot my Kul'Tirans characters lately (my Alliance main is a Kul'Tiran actually) and Dark Irons and yeah, the small number of options for those two races is a bit painful... 8')

    I think Taurens in general are in a good spot at the moment, but Worgens could get some love for sure!

  16. #57596
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Hah you're too hopeful.

    Nothing happens and people will still hope for a later reveal.
    Unfortunately I have seen that - people saying "no its not 9.2.5, its with pre orders!" So I can only hope pre-orders drop the same day.

    (to be clear I am one of those people expecting an allied race lmao. But if it's not in Tuesdays patch, I dont expect it at all.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorca View Post
    How would it fit, from a lore perspective, being able to choose red eyes and “undead” skin for Blood Elves or Night Elves? Thinking about creating a new character and questing through the starting areas for said races… wouldn’t it be a bit weird? But well, we already got sand Trolls, I guess?

    This was what I was thinking too.

    We have plenty of 'subraces' or tribes like you've mentioned (sandtrolls, wildhammer), but I feel like a customization that makes an alive race "unalive" is a jump too far. Even DKs get different starting areas.

    Even more so for Night Elves. At least Blood Elves they have the starting zone go into the ghostlands which involve the kinship between belf and forsaken, but it'd still be really iffy and weird.
    Last edited by wowrefugee; 2022-05-28 at 06:45 AM.

  17. #57597
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Also think the original purpose of the Maw was to imprison souls that were a threat to the Shadowlands. So the Arbiter would send some directly down there, not even giving them a chance at Revendreth (which is what Pelagos is changing, which is stupid tbh since if a super powerful soul arrives in the Shadowlands with a plan to fuck shit up, it will)

  18. #57598
    Quote Originally Posted by wowrefugee View Post
    Unfortunately I have seen that - people saying "no its not 9.2.5, its with pre orders!" So I can only hope pre-orders drop the same day.

    (to be clear I am one of those people expecting an allied race lmao. But if it's not in Tuesdays patch, I dont expect it at all.)

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    This was what I was thinking too.

    We have plenty of 'subraces' or tribes like you've mentioned (sandtrolls, wildhammer), but I feel like a customization that makes an alive race "unalive" is a jump too far. Even DKs get different starting areas.

    Even more so for Night Elves. At least Blood Elves they have the starting zone go into the ghostlands which involve the kinship between belf and forsaken, but it'd still be really iffy and weird.
    Exiles reach is the canon starting experience for most races, so whether undead Nelves fit into Teldrassil is about as relevant to the story as Zandalari trolls running around in Outland.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  19. #57599
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think the Maw existed BEFORE Zovaal. So the torture thing is a natural function, Zovaal just used Domination to take control of what naturally happened there.
    It only exists because of Zovaal. Without him, there'd be next to nothing there, just some very bored souls. It has no "natural function" beyond being where the souls naturally gravitate. Torture was all Zovaal's work. Don't complain about lore you don't even know.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    That literally makes no sense. There is no point to punishing the souls unlike Revendreth they aren't doing anything after. It's a massive waste of resources. There is no opposing afterlife of permanent arbitrary reward. It was a "hell" knockoff and a ridiculously illogical one per the rest of the story.
    Up until the drought, Anima was so ubiquitious that "wasting" it was a non-issue. The souls also go to that place automatically if not sorted by the Arbiter, so there was no effort involved into sending them there; quite the opposite, the Arbiter simply needed to not send them anywhere else.

  20. #57600
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChairmanKaga View Post
    The Maw never made sense in the first place. If souls were too irredeemable for Revendreth they should just be destroyed and reduced into anima. There's no point to dumping the super worst souls into one place.
    Maybe Maw originally were the Arbiter's realm. A waiting room of sorts where souls waited to be judged by Zovaal. Only after Zovaal's fall and imprisonment it was turned into the hellscape it is today. Would alos explain why every soul automatically goes there unless the Arbiter catches them in Oribos.

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