Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Makabreska]

As an example in Duskwood the entire population should be in shambles after the Night Watch joined the Legion and was destroyed (IIRC) by the player warlock back in Legion. How are they managing now that their militia is gone? Maybe Gilneans moved in sent by Genn to deal with the Worgen curse in the area, a resolution to that would be nice.

It was assassination quest. But yes, people forget that revisiting vanilla zones did not end in Cata. Plenty of times we go back for new plot points. Artifact quests are a great example. Or maybe how in BfA we went back to Uldum/Vale?

[Nyel]

"Only UI change", when they bring powers of old that never existed next to each other? I don't think you know what UI is. It was pretty obvious that they will use stuff from the past that worked, the kicker here always was that we will have a combination of stuff from multiple expansions which will bring interactions we never had before. Not to mention that new talent tree allows you to specialize in a way it was not possible before, i.e. you may simply not pick Starfall as Balance, if the fight is pure single target.

How is this any different? Not picking Starfall vs. having Starfall as a basic skill and not using it makes absolutely no difference.

And as I said, they brought very few stuff back, yes. That's about it. Nothing else changed. It's in most parts just a visual change from a boring talent row to a boring talent tree. There is zero real change as of the recent examples and everything is as usual. Lame, on top of that.

It's just a name change at this point, nowadays we call the Dragonflight talents "Spellbook".

I mean it really is this. The passive skills are now talents and so are some of the active skills. They just turned the spell book and the "old" talent tree into a new talent tree and called it a day. Sorry, there's no effort.

[ExiHext]

How is this any different? Not picking Starfall vs. having Starfall as a basic skill and not using it makes absolutely no difference.

And as I said, they brought very few stuff back, yes. That's about it. Nothing else changed. It's in most parts just a visual change from a boring talent row to a boring talent tree. There is zero real change as of the recent examples and everything is as usual. Lame, on top of that.



I mean it really is this. The passive skills are now talents and so are some of the active skills. They just turned the spell book and the "old" talent tree into a new talent tree and called it a day. Sorry, there's no effort.

God, this guy is awful. Is there a way besides blocking to get absolutely rid of his comments? Blocking doesn't help when he gets quoted every other post. He really makes me aggressive.

[huth]

After checking the Balance and Resto trees extensively: the new talent trees are as boring as they could be. I mean the only thing they really changed is the layout, nothing else. No idea if there's even a lot to test as 99% of the talent tree content existed for years and is still a thing to this day.

I wish they would have taken a bolder approach and add something more... meaningful than just the stuff we already have. It's really just a UI change at core.

They changed the backend system (like the inbuilt capability for doing things like relic bonuses in Legion), that still needs thorough testing since this is intended to last well beyond DF. The talents themself aren't the important part, though it still needs checking for "broken" synergies.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

God, this guy is awful. Is there a way besides blocking to get absolutely rid of his comments? Blocking doesn't help when he gets quoted every other post. He really makes me aggressive.

Put him on ignore and be done with it.

[rhorle]

As an example in Duskwood the entire population should be in shambles after the Night Watch joined the Legion and was destroyed (IIRC) by the player warlock back in Legion. How are they managing now that their militia is gone? Maybe Gilneans moved in sent by Genn to deal with the Worgen curse in the area, a resolution to that would be nice.

We already know what happened by the way between the short story and the Shadowlans launch events. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-by-torchlight

So there is really nothing to continue about the zone story of Duskwood. It would be creating a new story/threat for the zone. Which yes can happen but there is no reason to spend the resources on a revamp for zones that may get picked for leveling. If it is made part of an expansion zone then it wouldn't really be continuing but being new because all of the zones would have to have a related story/threat so things are cohesive.

[Luck4]

but being new because all of the zones would have to have a related story/threat so things are cohesive.

What? That's exactly why Cataclysm failed, most zones felt outdated as soon as the expansion ended, unlike Vanilla zones that were mostly disconnected from each other.

Also, the main reason why we need a Revamp is to make Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor evergreen in both graphics and lore, so Blizzard can use it more for future questing, events, and even occasional raids and dungeons down the line, regardless of where the main "current continent" is.

Nowadays, they either need to revamp portions of old zones or avoid using them at all, while telling new stories in said places. This was clearly seen in BFA, where most of the time that a story bit happened in an old zone it was either a short quest, a pre-rendered cinematic, a table mission, or a "stay a while and listen" dialogue mentioning the event.

It's clear that keeping Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms outdated is creating more cons than pros in the long term for this game. I'm personally against WoW 2, but if it's the only way to see Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms restored, then I would be on board because avoiding Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms is hurting the game and the franchise as a whole.

[rhorle]

What? That's exactly why Cataclysm failed, most zones felt outdated as soon as the expansion ended, unlike Vanilla zones that were mostly disconnected from each other.

So then stories wouldn't be continued and all of the zones would be "disconnected" from each other and not connected like Cataclysm apparently did. Also if they failed with one world revamp why wouldn't the fail with another when the world means less now then it did back then? EK and K being outdated doesn't hurt the franchise as a whole let alone the game. No new players are forced to level in the Vanilla/Cataclysm content and Blizzard updates zones when it is warranted for a story like we saw with Darkshore, Arathi, and Vale.

[Luck4]

Also if they failed with one world revamp why wouldn't the fail with another when the world means less now then it did back then? EK and K being outdated doesn't hurt the franchise as a whole let alone the game.

If you think it's not hurting then you probably didn't pay much attention to BFA, you don't care about the Warcraft franchise, or you fail to see how much can be extracted from a revamped Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, such as battlegrounds, raids, dungeons, cinematics, and quests in the long term. I mean nearly every single pre-expansion event, and expansion introduction happened in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms, these two continents are the foundation of the franchise and that's also because nearly every playable race comes from these two continents.

You're free to have your opinion on this matter, but it's clear that we're losing more than gaining from avoiding an evergreen revamp of Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.

[Skildar]

They limit the number of zones a new expansion will bring to 5-6. If we are go have revamped continent with zones of the quality we get today then they will only revamp a part of a continent and make the zones the primary set for endgame.

So doing an expansion focused solely on Lordaeron realm revamping the following zones that we know today as :
- Tirisfal Glades
- Silvermine forest
- Hillsbrad Foothills with Alterac Mountains
- Hinterlands
- Arathi Highlands
- The Plaguelands
- Eversong Woods and Quel Danas isle
- Ghostlands
- Tol Barad

With this revamp, we could see the rework of many major cities :
- Undercity
- Gilneas
- Silvermoon
- Stratholm

The list here is already way too long for a revamp where new zones are of the same quality as the one we got in Shadowlands for instance. But I would suspect that this would be the approach if we ever get a revamp of the world

[Nymrohd]

They limit the number of zones a new expansion will bring to 5-6. If we are go have revamped continent with zones of the quality we get today then they will only revamp a part of a continent and make the zones the primary set for endgame.

So doing an expansion focused solely on Lordaeron realm revamping the following zones that we know today as :
- Tirisfal Glades
- Silvermine forest
- Hillsbrad Foothills with Alterac Mountains
- Hinterlands
- Arathi Highlands
- The Plaguelands
- Eversong Woods and Quel Danas isle
- Ghostlands
- Tol Barad

With this revamp, we could see the rework of many major cities :
- Undercity
- Gilneas
- Silvermoon
- Stratholm

The list here is already way too long for a revamp where new zones are of the same quality as the one we got in Shadowlands for instance. But I would suspect that this would be the approach if we ever get a revamp of the world

If we get a revamp I mostly expect a purely visual one that does the minimum changes to terrain so existing quests can stay there. I am not sure how much phasing the world can take.
I definitely would prefer zones getting combined and possibly even changing borders to an extent. Keep in mind that especially Eastern Kingdoms has a lot of places just MISSING. There is no Northern Lordaeron and much of the land of the Amani is just not there.

[Skildar]

If we get a revamp I mostly expect a purely visual one that does the minimum changes to terrain so existing quests can stay there. I am not sure how much phasing the world can take.
I definitely would prefer zones getting combined and possibly even changing borders to an extent. Keep in mind that especially Eastern Kingdoms has a lot of places just MISSING. There is no Northern Lordaeron and much of the land of the Amani is just not there.

A visual only revamp wouldn't be as satisfying in my opinion. I would love to see some Amani islands near the cost of the Ghostlands and Plaguelands in the style of the echo isles

[Nymrohd]

A visual only revamp wouldn't be as satisfying in my opinion. I would love to see some Amani islands near the cost of the Ghostlands and Plaguelands in the style of the echo isles

Why islands? The Amani lands are supposed to be much more substantial. Meanwhile Zul'aman is nowhere near as large or advanced as Zul'Gurub or Gundrak as cities are concerned. Heck Jinthra'Alor makes more sense as a capital the way things are presented in WoW. Imo there should be a proper zone showing the Amani lands. Also there should be some way to show how the Forest trolls of the Hinterlands and Arathi maintain contact with the capital. The only troll port in the coast is Revantusk. Either there'd need to be a significant change in terrain to allow for a land bridge or the Amani need ships.

[Lady Atia]

So then stories wouldn't be continued and all of the zones would be "disconnected" from each other and not connected like Cataclysm apparently did. Also if they failed with one world revamp why wouldn't the fail with another when the world means less now then it did back then? EK and K being outdated doesn't hurt the franchise as a whole let alone the game. No new players are forced to level in the Vanilla/Cataclysm content and Blizzard updates zones when it is warranted for a story like we saw with Darkshore, Arathi, and Vale.

Oh man, why do I get the feeling that anti-world-revamp guys are basically the anti-vaxxer of WoW?

They failed the first world revamp because they only used it for leveling up content instead of max-level stuff. Also they wasted some zones on (now quite outdated) pop culture references. The world doesn't mean any less now than it did back then, how are you coming to that conclusion? Shadowlands is awesome and Dragonflight looks promising, yes BfA was a dumbsterfire but the people who are at fault are gone now. EK and K being outdated hurts the franchise as a whole and the game because these zones are what makes the heart of the World of Warcraft. They are the core of all the original races stories and if you didn't realize, the basic terrain graphics didn't really change since WoD, so any revamp will bring these zones to a decent look for the rest of the game's life. Add housing on top and you have another super good evergreen feature that will help make WoW feel like a MMORPG again.

[Cheezits]

Being in denial about the revamp is also questionable when those updated human houses didn't show up in Dragonflight. Not to mention the new stuff for Forsaken that is essentially Operation Forsakengon.

It's taking forever for them to do, they won't say they're doing it, but it looks to be the case.

[Hugnomo]

Oh man, why do I get the feeling that anti-world-revamp guys are basically the anti-vaxxer of WoW?

They failed the first world revamp because they only used it for leveling up content instead of max-level stuff. Also they wasted some zones on (now quite outdated) pop culture references. The world doesn't mean any less now than it did back then, how are you coming to that conclusion? Shadowlands is awesome and Dragonflight looks promising, yes BfA was a dumbsterfire but the people who are at fault are gone now. EK and K being outdated hurts the franchise as a whole and the game because these zones are what makes the heart of the World of Warcraft. They are the core of all the original races stories and if you didn't realize, the basic terrain graphics didn't really change since WoD, so any revamp will bring these zones to a decent look for the rest of the game's life. Add housing on top and you have another super good evergreen feature that will help make WoW feel like a MMORPG again.

Yeah I agree. Cataclysm's revamp was super specific to the context of that expansion, a lot of natural disasters and destruction.
If they did a revamp that focuses on the essence of those areas and their individual stories, include them in max level content, they'd be golden.
People love Azeroth, people love the original races, they like the grounded stories from those zones, they want to see updated capital cities. It's an opportunity to market it as a "wow 2" and capitalize on nostalgia. I'm certain they'll do it at some point, and my guess is it's after Dragonflight.

[Nyel]

Being in denial about the revamp is also questionable when those updated human houses didn't show up in Dragonflight. Not to mention the new stuff for Forsaken that is essentially Operation Forsakengon.

It's taking forever for them to do, they won't say they're doing it, but it looks to be the case.

No it really doesn't. I'm hearing this since Legion and it's been 5 years now. People expected a revamp for BfA. For Shadowlands. For Dragonflight. It never happened. And it never will. Put these hopes to rest, at this point it's just delusional.

[Lady Atia]

No it really doesn't. I'm hearing this since Legion and it's been 5 years now. People expected a revamp for BfA. For Shadowlands. For Dragonflight. It never happened. And it never will. Put these hopes to rest, at this point it's just delusional.

Huh? Both Kul Tiras and Zandalar leaked out early and Shadowlands was also speculated quite heavily after BfA, no one really believed we would get a world revamp instead of that. Likewise, Dragon Isles was 1000% expected after Shadowlands, the question was just how big it would be but since it's one of the last known landmarks (besides Tel Abim, Balor and .... Undermine I guess?) it was logical that they would use it for a standalone expansion instead. So no, Dragonflight was the earliest we could have honestly gotten a world revamp.

[Raetary]

It never happened. And it never will.

Until it does.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The only reason for a Revamp expansion will not come from Activision-Blizzard management but Microsoft management and again that is pretty much just pure distilled hope that Microsoft won't also manage the game the same way as Activision.

Revamp expansions are the most expensive expansion types and fundamentally I can see that with Microsoft nudging in that direction to revitalize the game. But, beyond that I dont really see it except for the weird lore hints about healing and awakening from the Narrative Team.