1. #57661
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    illusion of choice with cookie cutter builds > cookie cutter builds without illusion of choice
    This is pretty much it. Although, I know the goal was that the Cata Talents would create multiple viable playstyles within a spec while being newbie-firendly: The problem being that was very rarely the case. Notably the builds we saw during BFA with Mistweavers & holy paladins.

    All-in-all there were overall more viable builds during the Talent Tree era so we might as well go back to that.

    RIP Cataclysm Era Talents - You were an exciting new system that never paid off that somehow lasted 10 years
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    And if people like the general idea of Unholy without the ghoul, IMO they should be able to. Thats my point.
    It looks like that exact playstyle will exist in Frost: A dps build revolving around Rime & Chill Streak, spreading dots while managing resources.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-06-03 at 07:27 PM.

  2. #57662
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I think it is clear you are likely hardcore but have moved the line for what constitutes hardcore for whatever reason. That isn't a casual mindset in the slightest. It isn't great that a build can be bad. It doesn't mean there is any more choice then if all builds are good. It just means that players can punish themselves through ignorance or choice by picking a bad option. That is far from great. Great would be that there are no bad choices.
    Personally I'm not casual, but certainly not someone that enjoys min/maxing the hell out of my game, I'm way too lazy for that crap.
    However, with the presets being a thing, I'm thinking of at least using separate talents for raiding and mythics now, since I only need to set them up once and then I never have to bother switching them around.

  3. #57663
    Epic! Merryck's Avatar
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    Monk is probably the last they will showcase

  4. #57664
    Quote Originally Posted by Merryck View Post
    Monk is probably the last they will showcase
    I imagine that whatever classes they are changing in drastic ways will likely be the last ones to be shown. Personally my money is on Hunters being last in line, with the exception of BM they never seem to get SV and MM right, and I imagine this will be extremely apparant with MM and it's awful talents being problematic when they try to squeeze it into a talent tree.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #57665
    I wish they got rid of needing a Tome to respec, especially with having a talent tree.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Didn't Scaleface say Arcane would get a rework? If so, Mage might be close to the end-ish (then again, Survival was in the first batch for Legion so who knows if it means something)

  6. #57666
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post

    Didn't Scaleface say Arcane would get a rework? If so, Mage might be close to the end-ish (then again, Survival was in the first batch for Legion so who knows if it means something)
    From what I recall he said that the Evoker would take a number of things from Arcane mages but from what we've seen it doesn't really seem to be the case.

    edit: I just went through his posts and didn't actually find anything along those lines, just him hinting how the name of the class is the same as an ability of mages (evocation). Unless a post of his was deleted, I'm not sure. May have just been a detail that got warped due to essentially a game of telephone.
    Last edited by Kiivar86; 2022-06-03 at 08:20 PM.

  7. #57667
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    From what I recall he said that the Evoker would take a number of things from Arcane mages but from what we've seen it doesn't really seem to be the case.

    edit: I just went through his posts and didn't actually find anything along those lines, just him hinting how the name of the class is the same as an ability of mages (evocation). Unless a post of his was deleted, I'm not sure. May have just been a detail that got warped due to essentially a game of telephone.
    Could mean a lot of things when it's just something vague like that. Could be they take specific abilities like Evocation, or could mean they just have a similar burn/conserve gameplay.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  8. #57668
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Could mean a lot of things when it's just something vague like that. Could be they take specific abilities like Evocation, or could mean they just have a similar burn/conserve gameplay.
    Could be but looking at the posts where he mentions mages, it seems more to me it was just about his initial reaction due to the name sharing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaleface View Post
    That was my idea when i read a name of spec "Evoker" and thought wtf because as I playe mage sometimes first reaction was like I said And hints about mage spell was exactly evocation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scaleface View Post
    Dunno man, there is no any info about shadowlands - s4 looks like canceled (or was bait to check players reaction) if they really want to push it to november.
    Also, it's true that wotlk classic will be just 2 months before - if nothing will change (for now its scheduled for 09.22) - and it's weird af.

    So yeah from these I really more take it as "the name reminded me of mages" and people just twisted it from there.
    Another thing is that there is no name of "iconic villain" of 10.x but only one who (for me) fit the theme and place of expansion is Galakrond.
    Someone wroted before about dragonsworn etc - no, class name is totally out of my mind. In first moment when I read that i thought "hello? we have mages already!". It's similiar to one spell name of arcane mage :P
    So yeah from that it feels more like "it made me think of mages due to the arcane mage ability" and less "they're stealing from arcane mages."

    Unless posts of his were deleted.

  9. #57669
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Not much of an issue, if you have to spent literally single point to get it in DK case. They did say that things like interrupts will be very easy to get.
    Thing is, it's something you're never NOT going to take, so why even give you the option not to?
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  10. #57670
    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Thing is, it's something you're never NOT going to take, so why even give you the option not to?
    Is it though? There are a lot of raid fights where you certainly dont need interrupts on everyone.

  11. #57671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Told you many times, we didn't have radio silence, all news were simply focused on 9.2.5. Now they can start preparing for Alpha.

    Pre-order probably will happen soon as well, but I don't think it will have something important for current game anymore. Tirisfal stuff was for everyone, Evoker won't happen until ~2 weeks before expac, we probably get stuff like mount or cosmetics cloaks already discovered as encrypted rewards.

    One thing still unknown is 'living world'. Was that decoy? Or maybe it's connected to new reputation system.

    EDIT: 2 classes this week. Alpha on 11. July?
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2022-06-03 at 08:52 PM.

  12. #57672
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Thing is, it's something you're never NOT going to take, so why even give you the option not to?
    Interrupts are not necessarily needed in raids.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Is it though? There are a lot of raid fights where you certainly dont need interrupts on everyone.
    Unfortunately in this case, you are kinda forced to take interrupt to proceed down the frost section.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  13. #57673
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Sure gonna be fun to run a keystone with people who didn't pick their interrupt.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  14. #57674
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Problem is when a spec (Unholy) relies on a ghoul because of it's core mechanics.
    Basic ghould CD is automatically given for Unholy, and I bet the Row 2 talent that makes it permanent is gateway to some very powerful talents to UHs should always have permanent ghoul unless they are deliberately trolling.

  15. #57675
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Basic ghould CD is automatically given for Unholy, and I bet the Row 2 talent that makes it permanent is gateway to some very powerful talents to UHs should always have permanent ghoul unless they are deliberately trolling.
    I could see maybe on situation where you can run a build without one - if you can controll an undead mob inside a dungeon that would be stronger than your normal ghoul. Besides that yeah, not skilling it will (hopefully) be a trap.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Sure gonna be fun to run a keystone with people who didn't pick their interrupt.
    I'm quite sure you will be able to inspect people's talents beforehand, and if so you can easily write an addon that checks on that for you.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  16. #57676
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I hope we don't and it's because they heard the outcry and are redesigning their customizations.
    The outcry is from a minority, with luck the race won't change.

  17. #57677
    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Thing is, it's something you're never NOT going to take, so why even give you the option not to?
    Tbf, the people who won't pick up an interrupt are probably the same ones who don't interrupt anyway or possibly even have it on their action bar.

    I doubt its really as big of an issue as people are making it out to be other than it just makes it more visible to others.

  18. #57678
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruxx View Post
    Fair, I can get behind that version with wider shoulders and a more pronounced jaw.
    I just hope they don't do some extreme 180 turn and we end up with an unfinished mess for 10 years like with female worgen.
    I'm honestly less concerned about their dragon form (though please let armor show up on that) and moreso with the weird "we glued horns on a BElf/Human and then tossed multi-colored glitter all over the place" visage forms.
    FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)

  19. #57679
    I seem to recall counterspell being a talent for mages, way back when.

    So maybe that's why it doesn't really bother me.

  20. #57680
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    I’m enjoying the new talent trees. Looking forward to seeing Shaman, Monk, and (obviously) Evoker talents.

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