1. #57721
    Getting back to the talent trees, some observations: You actually have to take off-spec/alternate path talents due to the point requirements for higher tiers.

    For example, Unholy must take Perma-Ghoul and Scourge Strike, otherwise they can't get 8 points in their spec tree so they can advance to Tier 5. The only way for a max level Unholy DK to not have both would thus be to not spend their talent points.

  2. #57722
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Getting back to the talent trees, some observations: You actually have to take off-spec/alternate path talents due to the point requirements for higher tiers.

    For example, Unholy must take Perma-Ghoul and Scourge Strike, otherwise they can't get 8 points in their spec tree so they can advance to Tier 5. The only way for a max level Unholy DK to not have both would thus be to not spend their talent points.
    I don't think people suddenly not having perma ghoul was much of an issue, it's more that you may end up without outbreak if you want to focus more on the left side of the tree. In general many parts of the tree are not build in a way to promote synergy and create specialized builds, it's mostly just to herd you through it. With the way the required steps are set up and the way talents are linked, they can easily create pretty hard requirements to get things in the tree. I mean looking at unholy blight, it's just in the right side of the tree, so that you have to waste points on the bare minium minion stuff to get to it, even though it has nothing to do with minions. Frenzied monstrocity and morbidity are also reversed in the tree from an overal synergy point of view.

    I have to wonder how many sensible builds you can even do with these in the end. Certainly with the current paradigm you usually want a few key abilities and talents and after you've got them you don't have much left to spend on crazy new, which is probably what these talents were designed to be like if we are honest. Ideally for Blizzard and their future balancing effort they'd just give us the illusion of customization, in reality it would be best for them if the new trees don't allow for much more permuations than the current system.

    Edit: Though I have to admit, I'm kinda intrigued by the idea to not have DT and just cherry-pick everything else that has to do with festering wounds, DC and runic power, although I doubt not having any of the two choice talents in the middle is viable..
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2022-06-05 at 05:20 AM.
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  3. #57723
    I think Anduin will not appear on Dragonflight, and this last dialogue did nothing but set him up for a Void/Light expansion, where he probably will understand the balance between the two after being taken by the void.

    Btw, after recent events, where this guy is?

  4. #57724
    After checking the Balance and Resto trees extensively: the new talent trees are as boring as they could be. I mean the only thing they really changed is the layout, nothing else. No idea if there's even a lot to test as 99% of the talent tree content existed for years and is still a thing to this day.

    I wish they would have taken a bolder approach and add something more... meaningful than just the stuff we already have. It's really just a UI change at core.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  5. #57725
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    After checking the Balance and Resto trees extensively: the new talent trees are as boring as they could be. I mean the only thing they really changed is the layout, nothing else. No idea if there's even a lot to test as 99% of the talent tree content existed for years and is still a thing to this day.

    I wish they would have taken a bolder approach and add something more... meaningful than just the stuff we already have. It's really just a UI change at core.
    Your constant shitting on the game in absolutely every aspect is getting ridiculous. Go get a life and find a new hobby. WoW definitely isn't yours anymore.

  6. #57726
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    After checking the Balance and Resto trees extensively: the new talent trees are as boring as they could be. I mean the only thing they really changed is the layout, nothing else. No idea if there's even a lot to test as 99% of the talent tree content existed for years and is still a thing to this day.
    It's just a name change at this point, nowadays we call the Dragonflight talents "Spellbook".

  7. #57727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    After checking the Balance and Resto trees extensively: the new talent trees are as boring as they could be. I mean the only thing they really changed is the layout, nothing else. No idea if there's even a lot to test as 99% of the talent tree content existed for years and is still a thing to this day.

    I wish they would have taken a bolder approach and add something more... meaningful than just the stuff we already have. It's really just a UI change at core.
    "Only UI change", when they bring powers of old that never existed next to each other? I don't think you know what UI is. It was pretty obvious that they will use stuff from the past that worked, the kicker here always was that we will have a combination of stuff from multiple expansions which will bring interactions we never had before. Not to mention that new talent tree allows you to specialize in a way it was not possible before, i.e. you may simply not pick Starfall as Balance, if the fight is pure single target.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-06-05 at 07:55 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  8. #57728
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Those were all zones that didn't exist prior to their expansion. The point is that the story lines of the existing zones have nothing to be continued. For example how will we continue the rambo-style story line of Red Ridge mountains in a revamp? Another re-hash with an attack? What about Duskwood? Or any of the zones that would be revamped to have their story line continued?

    Cataclysm had most zone stories resolve. Expansion have most of their stories resolve with in the expansion. You can't continue stories that are already resolved. Coming up with something brand new isn't continuing the existing story, right? It is hilarious how you are proving my point while at the same time thinking you are not.
    As an example in Duskwood the entire population should be in shambles after the Night Watch joined the Legion and was destroyed (IIRC) by the player warlock back in Legion. How are they managing now that their militia is gone? Maybe Gilneans moved in sent by Genn to deal with the Worgen curse in the area, a resolution to that would be nice.

    Also the big Dreamgrove portal thing in the middle of the zone, storyline there ending in Duskwood rejuvinating back into Brightwoow or whatever the name was before it went dark there.

    Lots of plot threads that have now had years of in-game time to evolve into new plotlines altogether in most if not every zone.

  9. #57729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantique View Post
    As an example in Duskwood the entire population should be in shambles after the Night Watch joined the Legion and was destroyed (IIRC) by the player warlock back in Legion. How are they managing now that their militia is gone? Maybe Gilneans moved in sent by Genn to deal with the Worgen curse in the area, a resolution to that would be nice.
    It was assassination quest. But yes, people forget that revisiting vanilla zones did not end in Cata. Plenty of times we go back for new plot points. Artifact quests are a great example. Or maybe how in BfA we went back to Uldum/Vale?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  10. #57730
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    "Only UI change", when they bring powers of old that never existed next to each other? I don't think you know what UI is. It was pretty obvious that they will use stuff from the past that worked, the kicker here always was that we will have a combination of stuff from multiple expansions which will bring interactions we never had before. Not to mention that new talent tree allows you to specialize in a way it was not possible before, i.e. you may simply not pick Starfall as Balance, if the fight is pure single target.
    How is this any different? Not picking Starfall vs. having Starfall as a basic skill and not using it makes absolutely no difference.

    And as I said, they brought very few stuff back, yes. That's about it. Nothing else changed. It's in most parts just a visual change from a boring talent row to a boring talent tree. There is zero real change as of the recent examples and everything is as usual. Lame, on top of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    It's just a name change at this point, nowadays we call the Dragonflight talents "Spellbook".
    I mean it really is this. The passive skills are now talents and so are some of the active skills. They just turned the spell book and the "old" talent tree into a new talent tree and called it a day. Sorry, there's no effort.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  11. #57731
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    How is this any different? Not picking Starfall vs. having Starfall as a basic skill and not using it makes absolutely no difference.

    And as I said, they brought very few stuff back, yes. That's about it. Nothing else changed. It's in most parts just a visual change from a boring talent row to a boring talent tree. There is zero real change as of the recent examples and everything is as usual. Lame, on top of that.



    I mean it really is this. The passive skills are now talents and so are some of the active skills. They just turned the spell book and the "old" talent tree into a new talent tree and called it a day. Sorry, there's no effort.
    God, this guy is awful. Is there a way besides blocking to get absolutely rid of his comments? Blocking doesn't help when he gets quoted every other post. He really makes me aggressive.

  12. #57732
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    After checking the Balance and Resto trees extensively: the new talent trees are as boring as they could be. I mean the only thing they really changed is the layout, nothing else. No idea if there's even a lot to test as 99% of the talent tree content existed for years and is still a thing to this day.

    I wish they would have taken a bolder approach and add something more... meaningful than just the stuff we already have. It's really just a UI change at core.
    They changed the backend system (like the inbuilt capability for doing things like relic bonuses in Legion), that still needs thorough testing since this is intended to last well beyond DF. The talents themself aren't the important part, though it still needs checking for "broken" synergies.

  13. #57733
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExiHext View Post
    God, this guy is awful. Is there a way besides blocking to get absolutely rid of his comments? Blocking doesn't help when he gets quoted every other post. He really makes me aggressive.
    Put him on ignore and be done with it.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  14. #57734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantique View Post
    As an example in Duskwood the entire population should be in shambles after the Night Watch joined the Legion and was destroyed (IIRC) by the player warlock back in Legion. How are they managing now that their militia is gone? Maybe Gilneans moved in sent by Genn to deal with the Worgen curse in the area, a resolution to that would be nice.
    We already know what happened by the way between the short story and the Shadowlans launch events. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-by-torchlight

    So there is really nothing to continue about the zone story of Duskwood. It would be creating a new story/threat for the zone. Which yes can happen but there is no reason to spend the resources on a revamp for zones that may get picked for leveling. If it is made part of an expansion zone then it wouldn't really be continuing but being new because all of the zones would have to have a related story/threat so things are cohesive.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #57735
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    but being new because all of the zones would have to have a related story/threat so things are cohesive.
    What? That's exactly why Cataclysm failed, most zones felt outdated as soon as the expansion ended, unlike Vanilla zones that were mostly disconnected from each other.

    Also, the main reason why we need a Revamp is to make Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor evergreen in both graphics and lore, so Blizzard can use it more for future questing, events, and even occasional raids and dungeons down the line, regardless of where the main "current continent" is.

    Nowadays, they either need to revamp portions of old zones or avoid using them at all, while telling new stories in said places. This was clearly seen in BFA, where most of the time that a story bit happened in an old zone it was either a short quest, a pre-rendered cinematic, a table mission, or a "stay a while and listen" dialogue mentioning the event.

    It's clear that keeping Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms outdated is creating more cons than pros in the long term for this game. I'm personally against WoW 2, but if it's the only way to see Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms restored, then I would be on board because avoiding Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms is hurting the game and the franchise as a whole.

  16. #57736
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    What? That's exactly why Cataclysm failed, most zones felt outdated as soon as the expansion ended, unlike Vanilla zones that were mostly disconnected from each other.
    So then stories wouldn't be continued and all of the zones would be "disconnected" from each other and not connected like Cataclysm apparently did. Also if they failed with one world revamp why wouldn't the fail with another when the world means less now then it did back then? EK and K being outdated doesn't hurt the franchise as a whole let alone the game. No new players are forced to level in the Vanilla/Cataclysm content and Blizzard updates zones when it is warranted for a story like we saw with Darkshore, Arathi, and Vale.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #57737
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Also if they failed with one world revamp why wouldn't the fail with another when the world means less now then it did back then? EK and K being outdated doesn't hurt the franchise as a whole let alone the game.
    If you think it's not hurting then you probably didn't pay much attention to BFA, you don't care about the Warcraft franchise, or you fail to see how much can be extracted from a revamped Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, such as battlegrounds, raids, dungeons, cinematics, and quests in the long term. I mean nearly every single pre-expansion event, and expansion introduction happened in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms, these two continents are the foundation of the franchise and that's also because nearly every playable race comes from these two continents.

    You're free to have your opinion on this matter, but it's clear that we're losing more than gaining from avoiding an evergreen revamp of Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.

  18. #57738
    They limit the number of zones a new expansion will bring to 5-6. If we are go have revamped continent with zones of the quality we get today then they will only revamp a part of a continent and make the zones the primary set for endgame.

    So doing an expansion focused solely on Lordaeron realm revamping the following zones that we know today as :
    - Tirisfal Glades
    - Silvermine forest
    - Hillsbrad Foothills with Alterac Mountains
    - Hinterlands
    - Arathi Highlands
    - The Plaguelands
    - Eversong Woods and Quel Danas isle
    - Ghostlands
    - Tol Barad

    With this revamp, we could see the rework of many major cities :
    - Undercity
    - Gilneas
    - Silvermoon
    - Stratholm

    The list here is already way too long for a revamp where new zones are of the same quality as the one we got in Shadowlands for instance. But I would suspect that this would be the approach if we ever get a revamp of the world

  19. #57739
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    They limit the number of zones a new expansion will bring to 5-6. If we are go have revamped continent with zones of the quality we get today then they will only revamp a part of a continent and make the zones the primary set for endgame.

    So doing an expansion focused solely on Lordaeron realm revamping the following zones that we know today as :
    - Tirisfal Glades
    - Silvermine forest
    - Hillsbrad Foothills with Alterac Mountains
    - Hinterlands
    - Arathi Highlands
    - The Plaguelands
    - Eversong Woods and Quel Danas isle
    - Ghostlands
    - Tol Barad

    With this revamp, we could see the rework of many major cities :
    - Undercity
    - Gilneas
    - Silvermoon
    - Stratholm

    The list here is already way too long for a revamp where new zones are of the same quality as the one we got in Shadowlands for instance. But I would suspect that this would be the approach if we ever get a revamp of the world
    If we get a revamp I mostly expect a purely visual one that does the minimum changes to terrain so existing quests can stay there. I am not sure how much phasing the world can take.
    I definitely would prefer zones getting combined and possibly even changing borders to an extent. Keep in mind that especially Eastern Kingdoms has a lot of places just MISSING. There is no Northern Lordaeron and much of the land of the Amani is just not there.

  20. #57740
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    If we get a revamp I mostly expect a purely visual one that does the minimum changes to terrain so existing quests can stay there. I am not sure how much phasing the world can take.
    I definitely would prefer zones getting combined and possibly even changing borders to an extent. Keep in mind that especially Eastern Kingdoms has a lot of places just MISSING. There is no Northern Lordaeron and much of the land of the Amani is just not there.
    A visual only revamp wouldn't be as satisfying in my opinion. I would love to see some Amani islands near the cost of the Ghostlands and Plaguelands in the style of the echo isles

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