Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hugnomo]

Oh man, why do I get the feeling that anti-world-revamp guys are basically the anti-vaxxer of WoW?

They failed the first world revamp because they only used it for leveling up content instead of max-level stuff. Also they wasted some zones on (now quite outdated) pop culture references. The world doesn't mean any less now than it did back then, how are you coming to that conclusion? Shadowlands is awesome and Dragonflight looks promising, yes BfA was a dumbsterfire but the people who are at fault are gone now. EK and K being outdated hurts the franchise as a whole and the game because these zones are what makes the heart of the World of Warcraft. They are the core of all the original races stories and if you didn't realize, the basic terrain graphics didn't really change since WoD, so any revamp will bring these zones to a decent look for the rest of the game's life. Add housing on top and you have another super good evergreen feature that will help make WoW feel like a MMORPG again.

Yeah I agree. Cataclysm's revamp was super specific to the context of that expansion, a lot of natural disasters and destruction.
If they did a revamp that focuses on the essence of those areas and their individual stories, include them in max level content, they'd be golden.
People love Azeroth, people love the original races, they like the grounded stories from those zones, they want to see updated capital cities. It's an opportunity to market it as a "wow 2" and capitalize on nostalgia. I'm certain they'll do it at some point, and my guess is it's after Dragonflight.

[Nyel]

Being in denial about the revamp is also questionable when those updated human houses didn't show up in Dragonflight. Not to mention the new stuff for Forsaken that is essentially Operation Forsakengon.

It's taking forever for them to do, they won't say they're doing it, but it looks to be the case.

No it really doesn't. I'm hearing this since Legion and it's been 5 years now. People expected a revamp for BfA. For Shadowlands. For Dragonflight. It never happened. And it never will. Put these hopes to rest, at this point it's just delusional.

[Lady Atia]

No it really doesn't. I'm hearing this since Legion and it's been 5 years now. People expected a revamp for BfA. For Shadowlands. For Dragonflight. It never happened. And it never will. Put these hopes to rest, at this point it's just delusional.

Huh? Both Kul Tiras and Zandalar leaked out early and Shadowlands was also speculated quite heavily after BfA, no one really believed we would get a world revamp instead of that. Likewise, Dragon Isles was 1000% expected after Shadowlands, the question was just how big it would be but since it's one of the last known landmarks (besides Tel Abim, Balor and .... Undermine I guess?) it was logical that they would use it for a standalone expansion instead. So no, Dragonflight was the earliest we could have honestly gotten a world revamp.

[Raetary]

It never happened. And it never will.

Until it does.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The only reason for a Revamp expansion will not come from Activision-Blizzard management but Microsoft management and again that is pretty much just pure distilled hope that Microsoft won't also manage the game the same way as Activision.

Revamp expansions are the most expensive expansion types and fundamentally I can see that with Microsoft nudging in that direction to revitalize the game. But, beyond that I dont really see it except for the weird lore hints about healing and awakening from the Narrative Team.

[Khaza-R]

Being in denial about the revamp is also questionable when those updated human houses didn't show up in Dragonflight. Not to mention the new stuff for Forsaken that is essentially Operation Forsakengon.

It's taking forever for them to do, they won't say they're doing it, but it looks to be the case.

Personally, I don't foresee a revamp happening based on the current course of the game. At least not to the scale that many people seem to envision. But then again with the MS buyout being imminent, really anything could change at any time once they start officially calling the shots.

What I think is far more likely that's been planned is a gradual visual update to old assets in the same way they've updated NPC models over the years. Buildings and doodads probably next. With tilesets being last since that would probably require someone still going in and touching up and blending things.

So really I think the old world is likely getting updated one way or another. Its really just a question of scope and scale.

[Dracullus]

No it really doesn't. I'm hearing this since Legion and it's been 5 years now. People expected a revamp for BfA. For Shadowlands. For Dragonflight. It never happened. And it never will. Put these hopes to rest, at this point it's just delusional.

People expected Azshara for 5.0. Then 6.0. Then 7.0. It never happ.. oh wait.

We just get "in your face" hints for revamp in 9.2.5 - for Tirisfal, Gilneas, new Nelf tree. At some point it will happen. And obviously it doesn't have to be Cata style revamp, any part of old world could be reintroduce as "new" land for new levels and be separate area from old version. Now game start where Blizzard decide it to start, rest is marked as trip to the past with Chromie.

[Nokster10]

People expected Azshara for 5.0. Then 6.0. Then 7.0. It never happ.. oh wait.

We just get "in your face" hints for revamp in 9.2.5 - for Tirisfal, Gilneas, new Nelf tree. At some point it will happen. And obviously it doesn't have to be Cata style revamp, any part of old world could be reintroduce as "new" land for new levels and be separate area from old version. Now game start where Blizzard decide it to start, rest is marked as trip to the past with Chromie.

What we will get is probably isolated stories+revamp to go along with them. Like a story about Elune and the NE+a new(revamped) zone and capital.

I highly doubt we will ever get a full continent revamped at once.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean 10.0 could be a trainwreck spaghetti expansion where we go from Dragon Isles -> Void -> Alien Space World or Dragon Isles -> Void -> Time Travel Wibbly Woob -> World of Warcraft: Call of Duty or even the Dragon Isles -> Turalyon Go Crazy -> Siege of Stormwind City.

There's a lot of alternatives, all horrifying in its conclusion and a reminder of a narrative team that should stop taking speedball.

[Nyel]

Huh? Both Kul Tiras and Zandalar leaked out early and Shadowlands was also speculated quite heavily after BfA, no one really believed we would get a world revamp instead of that. Likewise, Dragon Isles was 1000% expected after Shadowlands, the question was just how big it would be but since it's one of the last known landmarks (besides Tel Abim, Balor and .... Undermine I guess?) it was logical that they would use it for a standalone expansion instead. So no, Dragonflight was the earliest we could have honestly gotten a world revamp.

Yes, people here were expecting that. Since Legion. Everything gets debunked with leaks, but until that point the copium always was "we're getting a revamp this time". A revamp was never likely. Not for BfA, not for Dragonflight. Some people just don't want to bury their hopes, that's all. Dragon Isles was expected the moment all the other scenarios didn't make any sense anymore (aka 9.2 was announced).

- - - Updated - - -

People expected Azshara for 5.0. Then 6.0. Then 7.0. It never happ.. oh wait.

We just get "in your face" hints for revamp in 9.2.5 - for Tirisfal, Gilneas, new Nelf tree. At some point it will happen. And obviously it doesn't have to be Cata style revamp, any part of old world could be reintroduce as "new" land for new levels and be separate area from old version. Now game start where Blizzard decide it to start, rest is marked as trip to the past with Chromie.

Yeah and people expected housing and we got Garrisons. So there's that for your comparison.

Another world revamp only makes sense when it comes in form of WoW 2.0 where players can bring over their stuff. As part of WoW it doesn't make any sense anymore.

[Dracullus]

What we will get is probably isolated stories+revamp to go along with them. Like a story about Elune and the NE+a new(revamped) zone and capital.

I highly doubt we will ever get a full continent revamped at once.

Sure, why not. It could be even focus for DF patches if they want. From world content perspective I don't really see difference between farming rares in Nazjatar and farm rares in Uldum. Making new landmass just for TI style zone always feel like waste of resources for me, especially when important unknown lore place is turned into mini zone.

Yeah and people expected housing and we got Garrisons. So there's that for your comparison.

You: People waited for X thing for many expansion, it never happened, so it will never will happen.
Me: People waited for this other Y thing and it happened. Sometimes people wait for stuff for several expansion and they happen.
You: People waited for Z thing and it didn't happened!

Sigh, thanks for fruitful discussion as always, Nyel.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I just think that they need some sort of solution to the stagnant nature of Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor. Whether that is a new Team dedicated to that endeavour or something else. The World needs to be more alive than just 1 Continent and Instances.

Too bad that requires investments and actual funding + budget that is out of the scope of the managed decline we're in.

I definitely feel the focus should stay on the Dragon Isles for the 2-3 patches, I think this narrative team has no idea what they are doing when they expand scope beyond the main setting and as such they should stick to Dragon Isles.

I also just worry that anything tied to EK and Kalimdor will quickly spiral into "Turalyon is a mass genocidal maniac who is throwing light nuclear bombs everywhere while Yrel's space armada invades too with light Ion cannons, SO COOL".

[Skildar]

Why islands? The Amani lands are supposed to be much more substantial. Meanwhile Zul'aman is nowhere near as large or advanced as Zul'Gurub or Gundrak as cities are concerned. Heck Jinthra'Alor makes more sense as a capital the way things are presented in WoW. Imo there should be a proper zone showing the Amani lands. Also there should be some way to show how the Forest trolls of the Hinterlands and Arathi maintain contact with the capital. The only troll port in the coast is Revantusk. Either there'd need to be a significant change in terrain to allow for a land bridge or the Amani need ships.

When you reach the end of Zul Aman it doesn't feel like there is much more to it and twice they've been assaulted by the horde-alliance raids. I just feel like having them retreated to a set of small islands could be right story wise and visually interesting. Anything could be considered right honestly as long as it is used to tell an interesting story that hasn't already been told

[Varodoc]

Stormwind will be updated once Turalyon becomes a psycho and needs to be replaced, and leadership of the Alliance transitions fully into the hands of Regent Alleria and the Ren'dorei.

[rhorle]

If you think it's not hurting then you probably didn't pay much attention to BFA, you don't care about the Warcraft franchise, or you fail to see how much can be extracted from a revamped Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, such as battlegrounds, raids, dungeons, cinematics, and quests in the long term.

Lmao. I don't care about the Warcraft franchise just because I don't agree with you? We aren't losing anything from not having a full world revamp. The moment they do a revamp all of your problems start building again because they can't do one every expansion. Not to mention all of the things you list as problems didn't even get addressed with Cataclysm the last time they did a revamp and you want them to do even more while still providing enough content for end-game.

[infinitemeridian]

I wonder if we're gonna get any more talents today.

[rhorle]

The world doesn't mean any less now than it did back then, how are you coming to that conclusion?

The World that you want revamped isn't even the default starting experience for new players. That is Vanilla (Cataclysm-revamped) content has less meaning then it did back then. All the revamp would be for is Chromie time or it would force an entire expansion to level through all of the EK and K zones. How would a revamp bring the zones to a decent look for the rest of the game's life if they will just start being outdated as graphics continue to increase each expansion?

Also housing can work without a revamp. Not to mention a revamp won't change WoW feeling like an MMORPG or not. It seems like you have a lot of issues with the game that you've pinned on a few features that won't actually address any of your problems. Essentially doomed to fail from the start.

[Berkilak]

Lmao. I don't care about the Warcraft franchise just because I don't agree with you? We aren't losing anything from not having a full world revamp. The moment they do a revamp all of your problems start building again because they can't do one every expansion. Not to mention all of the things you list as problems didn't even get addressed with Cataclysm the last time they did a revamp and you want them to do even more while still providing enough content for end-game.

If anything, Cataclysm would make them more reluctant to ever do a revamp. It's reception (while I enjoyed it!) wasn't exactly stellar, and it turned the leveling experience into a continuity nightmare that will never be resolved. The fact that they let that nightmare exist, however, is telling in and of itself. They don't care about continuity as much as some of the players do. They only care about what is "on screen" right now. The only game is the endgame, as they say.

[Makabreska]

If anything, Cataclysm would make them more reluctant to ever do a revamp. It's reception (while I enjoyed it!) wasn't exactly stellar, and it turned the leveling experience into a continuity nightmare that will never be resolved. The fact that they let that nightmare exist, however, is telling in and of itself. They don't care about continuity as much as some of the players do. They only care about what is "on screen" right now. The only game is the endgame, as they say.

Eh, no. The reception was positive. They got rid of obnoxious, tedious quests and transformed a dead places like Azshara into a stellar levelling zones. The main issue with that was, according to them, that it took way too much dev time from the actual end game Cata content. And they may not care about continuity, simply because it was partially fixed with with scaled levelling and Chromie time.

[Berkilak]

Eh, no. The reception was positive. They got rid of obnoxious, tedious quests and transformed a dead places like Azshara into a stellar levelling zones. The main issue with that was, according to them, that it took way too much dev time from the actual end game Cata content. And they may not care about continuity, simply because it was partially fixed with with scaled levelling and Chromie time.

I liked the revamp, too. And the expansion as a whole, for that matter. But I won't confuse personal reception with overall community reception, which was and remains overwhelmingly negative.