Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Berkilak]

Or maybe people left because of heroic dungeons experiment (and making casters mana mater) and many treating Arthas as a final boss of the genre? You don't have solid proof to say departure is mainly caused by revamp. Vanilla zones were a mess pre-Cata. Disjointed quests, wild difficulty, desolate zones. Revamp hugely improved all of that, any with it, levelling experience.

I agree. I also think that the vast majority of the dropoff in player population was simple fatigue from the people most interested in the franchise - we learned what the "natural" lifespan of an MMO was in that moment. It would be unreasonable to expect perpetual growth and a lifespan of over two decades.

It was still poorly received.

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Of all the issues plaguing Cataclysm, the revamp was by far the least offensive of all its problems. Even I can acknowledge that and I personally despise what the revamp did to several zones like Ashevenvale, Barrens, 1k Needles, etc. The revamp singled-handedly generated more hype than anything I've ever seen while following WoW.

Cataclysm really suffered from doing a full 180 on difficulty that people saw in the end of WotLK. At least until the end of the expansion, then they just nerfed everything into oblivion and added LFR to the scene. Dragon Soul didn't help either as just felt lazy and lasted far too long. Basically its an expansion that managed to piss off everyone by the end and that's really the primary reason why gets hate.

I don't disagree at all.

It was still poorly received.

It's like player housing, WoD, and garrisons. Blizzard makes a habit of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They don't do nuance. WoD bad therefore housing bad. Cata bad therefore revamp bad.

[Makabreska]

It was still poorly received.

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I don't disagree at all.

It was still poorly received.

Seems like no convincing you.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1533868676495069187

New PTR Build.

[bruxx]

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1533868676495069187

New PTR Build.

Interesting. Wonder if it's related to season 4

[rhorle]

I agree. I also think that the vast majority of the dropoff in player population was simple fatigue from the people most interested in the franchise - we learned what the "natural" lifespan of an MMO was in that moment. It would be unreasonable to expect perpetual growth and a lifespan of over two decades.

That seems more filling in the blanks then reality though. Everquest came out in 1999 and is still around and made $30 million in 2020.WoW is still alive and thriving even if subscriptions keep going down. It still makes a lot of money. Options for gaming, original population aging, and the "Great Recession" (2008) likely played a far greater role then any single game design aspect.

There is no natural lifespan for video games. It can be weeks it can be decades. It just depends on support and players willing to play. As popular as Warcraft was it never attained the self perpetuating fame of Pokemon for example.

[Berkilak]

That seems more filling in the blanks then reality though. Everquest came out in 1999 and is still around and made $30 million in 2020.WoW is still alive and thriving even if subscriptions keep going down. It still makes a lot of money. Options for gaming, original population aging, and the "Great Recession" (2008) likely played a far greater role then any single game design aspect.

There is no natural lifespan for video games. It can be weeks it can be decades. It just depends on support and players willing to play. As popular as Warcraft was it never attained the self perpetuating fame of Pokemon for example.

Your first paragraph doesn't contradict what I said. And I agree completely, up to your second paragraph that partly contradicts the first. Perhaps I should have said "natural lifecycle" instead of lifespan. WoW did not die after WotLK, or Cata, or WoD, or whatever else. It'll go until people stop throwing money at it. But until that point, we never really saw an entry into the genre that tapped into the popular zeitgeist. We had no idea how large it would get, nor how long it would last. WotLK was the peak of this aberrant entry, but like you say, I do not believe that this was due to a lack of quality on Cataclysm's part. There were several factors, as we both alluded to.

But Cataclysm was nevertheless still poorly received.

[rhorle]

Your first paragraph doesn't contradict what I said. And I agree completely, up to your second paragraph that partly contradicts the first. Perhaps I should have said "natural lifecycle" instead of lifespan. WoW did not die after WotLK, or Cata, or WoD, or whatever else. It'll go until people stop throwing money at it. But until that point, we never really saw an entry into the genre that tapped into the popular zeitgeist. We had no idea how large it would get, nor how long it would last. WotLK was the peak of this aberrant entry, but like you say, I do not believe that this was due to a lack of quality on Cataclysm's part. There were several factors, as we both alluded to.

Nothing about my post is contradictory. Lifespan, lifecycle, or any other term you want to use simply do not apply when using the word natural. Everything is artificial about those concept and exists as long as developers are willing to support the product and players are willing to play. It is also silly to say that no game in the past tapped into "zeitgeist" when WoW built on the popularity of Everquest and surpassed it.

[KoldYearsAhead]

Btw, after recent events, where this guy is?

Whispering sweet nothings words of conflict and strife into Turalyon's ear.

[Sondrelk]

Whispering sweet nothings words of conflict and strife into Turalyon's ear.

I wonder if they are going to address the whole deal with having learned that Dreadlords are not originally affiliated with the Burning Legion at all. Probably not given only the player characters really know that piece of information as of this moment.

[Berkilak]

Nothing about my post is contradictory. Lifespan, lifecycle, or any other term you want to use simply do not apply when using the word natural. Everything is artificial about those concept and exists as long as developers are willing to support the product and players are willing to play. It is also silly to say that no game in the past tapped into "zeitgeist" when WoW built on the popularity of Everquest and surpassed it.

Mr. T didn't say a damn thing about EQ. WoW was an MMO in the EQ vein, sure, but its popularity transcended the genre - and maybe even the medium itself - entirely.

[Lady Atia]

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/1533868676495069187

New PTR Build.

Mhm - "Seems to be a lot of skin files… interesting" probably Dracthyr customizations for the pre-orders?

[unbrained]

Mhm - "Seems to be a lot of skin files… interesting" probably Dracthyr customizations for the pre-orders?

Retail got the patch as well right now and is on the same version as the ptr

[Kiria]

retail got the patch as well right now and is on the same version as the ptr

pre order hyyyyppppuuuuuuu!!!!

[Lady Atia]

pre order hyyyyppppuuuuuuu!!!!

Please misses, can I see your ticket to the hype train?

[Vasoka]

Pre orders tomorrow prolly.

[Kiria]

Please misses, can I see your ticket to the hype train?

[rhorle]

Mr. T didn't say a damn thing about EQ. WoW was an MMO in the EQ vein, sure, but its popularity transcended the genre - and maybe even the medium itself - entirely.

Blizzard didn't start riding the wave at the bottom. They were at the top when it crested as nothing else really came at the time. It was in the right place and the right time to become part of pop culture of the time but it is silly to ignore what enabled WoW to get there. Remember Blizzard rarely creates brand new things. They just innovate and refine.

[Valysar]

Mhm - "Seems to be a lot of skin files… interesting" probably Dracthyr customizations for the pre-orders?

They will be in 10.0 prepatch, why add them now ?

[rhorle]

Mhm - "Seems to be a lot of skin files… interesting" probably Dracthyr customizations for the pre-orders?

Pretty sure they already confirmed that Dracthyr will be available in the pre-patch (for those that pre-ordered) and not with the pre-order when it first goes live.

https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonf...-mythic-326780

[KoldYearsAhead]

I wonder if they are going to address the whole deal with having learned that Dreadlords are not originally affiliated with the Burning Legion at all. Probably not given only the player characters really know that piece of information as of this moment.

I would have to imagine that eventually the truth will come out.


Having a nathrezim as a high ranking official in a trans-planetary cosmic military force is one thing, but that same nathrezim having the ear of the man who is in charge of the (currently) most powerful faction on Azeroth and a story not be told about the revelations in the Shadowlands is silly.


I honestly think what is going to happen is: the Alliance, through Turaylon, are going to instigate something big. It won't be until later Turalyon finds out he was manipulated.