1. #57921
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I am not concern trolling. Just saying this is not good representation anyway for anyone who thinks it is representation in any form.
    And I have not personally demanded binary characteristics, I've reiterated that the one interview we have on Dracthyr customization suggests THREE options for the torso which would allow for variety. We will know how things go when it comes to dimorphism (trimorphism?) when we actually see the customization e.g. if the leanest form has any visible breast then we know they are being gendered.

    At the same time I don't think it's fair to accuse anyone who would like a gendered form of being transphobic. Obviously there are many who ARE transphobic, this is a gaming community after all and we know the issues there. But everyone has their own aesthetics, this will likely be the only way we get playable dragons and many people will just not identify with a non-gendered form. I hope we get three options and everyone is satisfied (except the assholes on both sides)
    Yeah, I said as much in a previous post. The more options the merrier, including more gendered forms. That's not what I alluded to as transphobic sentiments, at all.
    What I did allude to was the comments stating that human-like sexual dimorphism in creature races is "natural" and "biology". While deriding and shitting on gender neutral options as some political agenda.
    So it wouldn't be fair to accuse anyone who would like gendered forms of being transphobic (unless they're speaking in an exclusionary manner). And I didn't.

  2. #57922
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Blizzard hasn't said anything about that, the race looks the way it does because it's trying to emulate Alexstrasza/regular dragons. Dracthyr are basically shrunken down dragons that stand upright. This is also why they have genders in visage form, like the aspects and other dragons have.
    I honestly cannot say I see that but I get it. I mean we've had draconic bipeds in RPGs for ages for that reason alone. Personally as a GM if my players wanted to play Dragons, I found a way to let them play actual dragons (I allowed a player to play a silver young dragon once, it was underpowered even with no level adjustment). But some find this half-measure acceptable so more power to them. Doesn't really scratch my itch to play a dragon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    If they wanted non-binary representation we'd get more varied face options, hair styles, accessory and make up options for either model and various body shapes for each core race.
    Not a lizard whose visage forms are based on victoria's secret super models.

    This isn't representation.
    Tbh we don't really know how much customization they do get. Ofc the visage forms are hypersexualized and unavoidable so it remains problematic.

  3. #57923
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    But some find this half-measure acceptable so more power to them. Doesn't really scratch my itch to play a dragon.
    Ultimately I think this is the right decision. Because I'd imagine more people want to play as a dragonperson race than a dragonsworn class that has a 5 minute cooldown to turn into Alexstrasza. I agree though, this isn't the 100% full fantasy of playing an actual dragon, but I think that just comes down to the limitation of the game, things like raids, etc.

  4. #57924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    This is the most important part. It's not representation when everybody looks the same.

    By the way, I'd be happy with more options for the jaw, that would already be enough for me. Give me a more Deathwing-like jaw and I'd be happy. Doesn't matter if "male" and "female" Dracthyr can use that, I just want it for my personal preference (because that butterface is hideous imho).
    They already said we will get lots of different face shapes though.

  5. #57925
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    A bulky dragon race would be good. When I think of this new race, I envision Dragonborn in D&D. Besides This the WoW version just seems like it’s missing some animalistic edge.

  6. #57926
    It's kinda funny to see the blood elf male form being referred to as 'hypersexualized' (not the word you mean) when the joke for years were how feminine they were.

  7. #57927
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    Ultimately I think this is the right decision. Because I'd imagine more people want to play as a dragonperson race than a dragonsworn class that has a 5 minute cooldown to turn into Alexstrasza. I agree though, this isn't the 100% full fantasy of playing an actual dragon, but I think that just comes down to the limitation of the game, things like raids, etc.
    Again, drakes are not that large. You can give them no melee role to avoid them taking all the melee space or give them a tank role so they can still play in melee if they want but it will never be a concern for raids/dungeons. Let them play as casters in both drake and visage form. Yes, you'd never be able to play in a dragon form that is the size of a building. But drakes are smaller than most mounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wowrefugee View Post
    It's kinda funny to see the blood elf male form being referred to as 'hypersexualized' (not the word you mean) when the joke for years were how feminine they were.
    Well I always found that joke to be inane. Blood elf males have a perfect V shape with extremely defined musculature.

  8. #57928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well I always found that joke to be inane. Blood elf males have a perfect V shape with extremely defined musculature.
    Compared to human males they're basically twinks.

  9. #57929
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Compared to human males they're basically twinks.
    Maybe twunks.

  10. #57930
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post

    Well I always found that joke to be inane. Blood elf males have a perfect V shape with extremely defined musculature.
    Yeah, people calling BElves feminine has always been a confusing one for me.

    Sure they are in the context of WoW, where they hold to the Warhammer roots in most men being unrealistically muscled uberhulks. But IRL I still wouldn't want to pick a fight with someone built like a BElf.

    I'd guess you'd call it a remnant of the old Aughts era where having long hair and any care for your physical appearance that wasn't "manly" like beard obsession made you "girly" that people have mostly grown past.
    Last edited by Veluren; 2022-05-25 at 10:45 AM.

  11. #57931
    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    Yeah, people calling BElves feminine has always been a confusing one for me.

    Sure they are in the context of WoW, where they hold to the Warhammer roots in most men being unrealistically muscled uberhulks. But IRL I still wouldn't want to pick a fight with someone built like a BElf.
    It doesn't help that the dudebros at Blizzard were also pushing that idea with the flirts/jokes.

    Most martial artists in our world would have a built like a BElf.

  12. #57932
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Compared to human males they're basically twinks.
    Because Human males are bodybuilders while Kul Tirans are weightlifters.

  13. #57933
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Idk about you, but when someone tells me that something is "unlike anything we have seen before" i very much take it as request to feel amazed.
    They should have advertised it as 'water that you can ONLY walk on' or 'water that you can't swim in'. Its actually something we never had before, but it just came across dumb because with the way how they said it, you can just go 'lol waterwalking/path of frost existed for 15 years'.

  14. #57934
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    They should have advertised it as 'water that you can ONLY walk on' or 'water that you can't swim in'. Its actually something we never had before, but it just came across dumb because with the way how they said it, you can just go 'lol waterwalking/path of frost existed for 15 years'.
    I mean it's dump in general, it's not like it is a major feature. The underwater areas are not even interactible outside fishing, one rare, one treasure and one world quest.

  15. #57935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean it's dump in general, it's not like it is a major feature. The underwater areas are not even interactible outside fishing, one rare, one treasure and one world quest.
    I actually enjoyed the water, especially that fishing world quest. Was it the most exciting thing we ever got? No. But I get why they would be proud about it from a technical/artist PoV.

  16. #57936
    Damn, the art people were talking about cool artistic things they did in the zone and the WoW Community who has to overanalyze anything a Blizzard employee does, even if they are just breathing, interpreted like 500000000 things into it.

    What's new?

    They showcased the zone. All they said was essentially "Oh yeah, the water doesn't look anything we've seen before, and you can walk on it. Because of this, it seems like the threshold between ZM and something more primordial". That's literally all that was said. It makes sense because you go from Primordial Soup -> Lush Forests -> Dead Desert.

    Y'all are acting like they talked about the water for 5 minutes. There is ONE sentence about the water, and one mentioning it prior to that.

  17. #57937
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    I actually enjoyed the water, especially that fishing world quest. Was it the most exciting thing we ever got? No. But I get why they would be proud about it from a technical/artist PoV.
    Nazjatar was far more impressive, and that was just a regular zone using underwater themed assets surrounded by a giant wall of water you couldn't interract with.

    I assume they were trying to go for the whole "reality doesn't apply" theme with the water not functioning like regular water, but they don't really do anything with that. You can see fish and life underwater, you just can't actually go there.

    The fact that the introductory area is the most otherworldly thing in Zereth Mortis beside the sky doesn't help matters either. Sure it's neat to not need water walking, but without being able to actually go into the water it's just a regular flat surface that allows fishing.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  18. #57938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Nazjatar was far more impressive, and that was just a regular zone using underwater themed assets surrounded by a giant wall of water you couldn't interract with.

    I assume they were trying to go for the whole "reality doesn't apply" theme with the water not functioning like regular water, but they don't really do anything with that. You can see fish and life underwater, you just can't actually go there.

    The fact that the introductory area is the most otherworldly thing in Zereth Mortis beside the sky doesn't help matters either. Sure it's neat to not need water walking, but without being able to actually go into the water it's just a regular flat surface that allows fishing.
    Meh, honestly Nazjatar was a huge dissapointment for me, both from a design and content PoV. It's super ugly especially if you compare it with cool "Nazjatar as an Expansion concepts" or even with the Zin Aszhari we got in the Warbringers video or the CoT dungeon. Honestly I think they should have gone the Argus route instead and have one zone that's basically corall ruins like the stuff we got, one that's propperly Zin Aszhari like the Eternal Palace and maybe one that's N'Zoth inspired. But than again, they wasted lot of potential awesome stuff during BfA, thanks Afrasiabi.

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    Oh, and also - didn't they announce some flashy waterfalls that you can interact with during the blizzcon nazjatar preview? Don't think we ever got that, right?

  19. #57939
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Sure, because you guys seem to be offended by the idea alone that there is a race that's the same for male and females in their natural form. And instead of accepting progression you want to revert to your classic view of how males and females have to be.

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    Show me a WoW drake that has sexual dimorphism.
    I'm not offended by fictional race. I'm offended by putting "boys and girls" and witch hunt into one sentence.

  20. #57940
    Pit Lord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulggun View Post
    I'm not offended by fictional race. I'm offended by putting "boys and girls" and witch hunt into one sentence.
    I can't see a difference between hunting witches and hating on trans or non-binary people or their (even potential) representation.
    Last edited by Lady Atia; 2022-05-25 at 12:45 PM.

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