Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Dracullus]

I don't know why people are all over GW2's mounts and post-cap 'progression'. They basically add a new spec that everyone must complete the story and then grind to access and use, and every must do this because it's usually the meta spec. Then you have to engage with the nesting doll crafting system to make your new meta weapon and reforge all your ascended gear to the new expansion meta stats (or just swap your legendary gear). Didn't get your metas done when it was current but need a skill from the last expansion? Fuck you, because old maps are empty and the zone meta-events you needed to grind routinely fail if they even start at all. It's not that exciting. Certainly no more so than 10 more levels and gear grinding. The end game boils down to who is the prettiest princess/who has the most obnoxious infusion effects. There's a reason people call it 'fashion wars'.

I like the gryphon, but why in the world would I pay $40-$50 for an expansion plus a $15/mo maintenance fee to be able to grind and use uglier dragons in WoW when GW2's gryphon is just there any time I'm in the mood to play with it? I like the completely free form flying in WoW quite a bit too. Taking stuff from GW2 isn't necessarily bad, but it doesn't make WoW any more attractive to play.

I have controversial theory that people buy new WoW expansions because they like to play WoW in general and just want new content. New stuff like new type of content, class, race etc. are nice, but they are like spice, not meat of new expac.

[Nymrohd]

I have controversial theory that people buy new WoW expansions because they like to play WoW in general and just want new content. New stuff like new type of content, class, race etc. are nice, but they are like spice, not meat of new expac.

I mean from the fact that there is a massive surge of subs every new xpac that recedes just as much after a couple of months we can extrapolate that the most popular content in WoW is the new zones and storylines. People do that, try the dungeons a few times (probably on Heroic), maybe check the raid in LFR then logout until the next xpac with maybe checking for a month during patches but not staying for long and not all at once like with an xpac release.

Most people just don't like repeating the same content ad naseum in different difficulties, slowly grinding for gear, waiting for timegated stories. They treat the game like a CRPG with a social aspect and once the content for that dries out and depends on grind to get you anywhere (or it's only a few hours of gameplay every 4-6 months), they are gone.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean from the fact that there is a massive surge of subs every new xpac that recedes just as much after a couple of months we can extrapolate that the most popular content in WoW is the new zones and storylines. People do that, try the dungeons a few times (probably on Heroic), maybe check the raid in LFR then logout until the next xpac with maybe checking for a month during patches but not staying for long and not all at once like with an xpac release.

Most people just don't like repeating the same content ad naseum in different difficulties, slowly grinding for gear, waiting for timegated stories. They treat the game like a CRPG with a social aspect and once the content for that dries out and depends on grind to get you anywhere (or it's only a few hours of gameplay every 4-6 months), they are gone.

Thats quite an assumption treating so many people that have the same specific beef.

Sorry what did they copy? And if you say the flight, just don't. GW2 copied it from countless other games.

Sorry, I was saying there's gonna be complaints of "BLIZZ COPIED111111111111111 x mechanic. THEY ARE UNORIGINAL1111111111"

[8bithamster]

And Blizzard is copying it and such. I'm not gonna accuse it though cause some gameplay features come from somewhere originally.


OT: I'm fine with no borrowed power since it seems to take away from class design(my perception of it not necessarily the law of the land and don't misread this haters).

Sorry what did they copy? And if you say the flight, just don't. GW2 copied it from countless other games.

[rhorle]

Borrowed power always felt like a scapegoat. People had issues with the game but didn't know what so they latched onto borrowed power as the root cause since it required them to play the game. It always existed in some form as well since stats and stuff would reset to new values each expansion. If they didn't play the game they felt like they would fall behind even if being behind didn't really matter. With out those things though it really does get boring because you quickly run out of things to do. It is a good thing for players that like to play alts but a bad thing for those that do not.

Dragonflight will be interesting though because they still do technically have a borrowed power system in the form of Dragon Riding. Reputations/Renown rewards could fall under that category as well but depends on if it is just the same rewards gated in a new way. Borrowed power is I think a great concept for any game because it removes bloat from the equation. You can do whatever you want with the system because it won't go to the next expansion and you don't need to worry about future balance if things "reset". The mission table is a good example of something that should always be carried over. It can reset each expansion with out much impact on function and it provided a nice near-passive boost to things. Though the shadowlands battle rework was terrible.

[manypillars]

Most people just don't like repeating the same content ad naseum in different difficulties, slowly grinding for gear, waiting for timegated stories. They treat the game like a CRPG with a social aspect and once the content for that dries out and depends on grind to get you anywhere (or it's only a few hours of gameplay every 4-6 months), they are gone.

ArenaNet doesn't have the solution either.

Do it again until it's perfect to get mastery points or do it again harder while standing on one foot while singing the Hokey Pokey to get gear? It doesn't help Blizzard that it ended up giving the choice of esports or actually grinding in hell.

[Nymrohd]

ArenaNet doesn't have the solution either.

Do it again until it's perfect to get mastery points or do it again harder while standing on one foot while singing the Hokey Pokey to get gear? It doesn't help Blizzard that it ended up giving the choice of esports or actually grinding in hell.

Never said it does, that was someone else. my only comment on other max level progression systems was on ESO and how bad that is.

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Thats quite an assumption treating so many people that have the same specific beef.

But the patterns exists. Over ten million buy each xpac. Yet multiple expacs retained at most 2 million. What is the difference in what is offered between an expac release and patches? A wealth of one-time content, most of which is story. Plus the chance to experience multiple instances. The playstyle of a casual at an expansion launch is slow leveling and exploring of the new content. The playstyle of the more dedicated fanbase is grinding; either by doing the same instances dozens if not hundreds of times or by doing the same dailies, world quests and rares.

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Sorry what did they copy? And if you say the flight, just don't. GW2 copied it from countless other games.

I really wonder with the community here some times. Have they only played WoW and the few more popular MMOs? Or just WoW and have seen other games in streams?
Dragonriding is just flight simulation gameplay. I logged hundreds of hours in Pilotwings before anyone even dreamed of a Warcraft MMO.

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And they indeed made a Diablo 4 announcement! All hail the Necromancer!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

But the patterns exists. Over ten million buy each xpac. By most multiple expacs retained at most 2 million. What is the difference in what is offered between an expac release and patches? A wealth of one-time content, most of which is story. Plus the chance to experience multiple instances. The playstyle of a casual at an expansion launch is slow leveling and exploring of the new content. The playstyle of the more dedicated fanbase is grinding; either by doing the same instances dozens if not hundreds of times or by doing the same dailies, world quests and rares.

Still more assumptions and I'm not buying it.

[Nymrohd]

Still more assumptions and I'm not buying it.

I'd love to see alternate explanations. Why do people buy, play for 2-3 months and then leave? What brings them back for 2-3 months but not for longer?

[rhorle]

I'd love to see alternate explanations. Why do people buy, play for 2-3 months and then leave? What brings them back for 2-3 months but not for longer?

It is just the way most video games seem to be played. They buy the game play the story and then move on. I don't think it is a reflection of any games specific design or what content gamers prefer. It is just the nature of how things are consumed. People hit an "end point" even if it isn't technically the end. It might not be that more prefer the story/leveling but simply it being new anything that is played until some implied "end".

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It is just the way most video games seem to be played. They buy the game play the story and then move on. I don't think it is a reflection of any games specific design or what content gamers prefer. It is just the nature of how things are consumed. People hit an "end point" even if it isn't technically the end. It might not be that more prefer the story/leveling but simply it being new anything that is played until some implied "end".

Personally I think the design matters a lot but a gamer's feelings on a game varies and well there's no one way to design like a King.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean you're never going to see features by this team that are about "Immersion", "Social Building" or "Roleplaying".

There's no real reason to stay connected to the World of Azeroth because Blizzard has never utilized that strength in any way shape or form due to what I assume is the Teams feeling on the subject matter being "Roleplayers bad"/"Too costly" and the management stance is to stay firmly in the "Content Checklist" (Hi, Timeless Isle forever) territory until the product fades into the blue skies yonder.

The modern WoW model is literally competing with the likes of Fortnite and other types of session based games just like WoW where the update rate is far higher due to better profit margins for continuous development compared to WoW's old school development of Patches. (Masking it as seasons to stay up to date with the industry is just silly.)

When you boil down WoW's content to just instanced content it does push the game in a direction where it cannot compete with other titles due to its production pipeline being fucked and the management of the company knowing that and echoing it to investors since Legion. The concepts and creativity that a MMORPG does give to the developers is just not utilized at all anymore and instead they've pidgeonholed the game into New Raids+New Megadungeon+2/3 Content Islands.
(iterated on from Mists of Pandaria that don't even have any connection to the user beyond "New place we go to due to writers telling you so rather than even introducing the concepts of them in the base product and so forth.")

Besides it is uncertain if the spiky nature of the engagement as we've seen in the modern era is bad or not. It may be that it is benefitial for the company in ways that we don't realize and is why they did move into this direction in the first place.

It doesn't mean its benefitial for the consumers but the company may have found this model of WoW Token + Spiky Engagement with Marketing around Seasons to be the best solution with least amount of cost issues.

[Dracullus]

I mean from the fact that there is a massive surge of subs every new xpac that recedes just as much after a couple of months we can extrapolate that the most popular content in WoW is the new zones and storylines. People do that, try the dungeons a few times (probably on Heroic), maybe check the raid in LFR then logout until the next xpac with maybe checking for a month during patches but not staying for long and not all at once like with an xpac release.

Most people just don't like repeating the same content ad naseum in different difficulties, slowly grinding for gear, waiting for timegated stories. They treat the game like a CRPG with a social aspect and once the content for that dries out and depends on grind to get you anywhere (or it's only a few hours of gameplay every 4-6 months), they are gone.

Of course, and it gives clickbaiters like Bellurar perfect material few months after release: HALF OF PLAYERS LEFT GAME IS END NEAR??? while most of these people are usual tourists.

[Vasoka]

>Buttload of D4 and OW news
>Nothing about WoW / DF

Nice.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

>Buttload of D4 and OW news
>Nothing about WoW / DF

Nice.

I mean it could be worse, we could have no talent trees to look at.

[Vasoka]

I mean it could be worse, we could have no talent trees to look at.

>It could be worse

Yeah like 2 years ago I'd agree with this statement. Not anymore though.

[8bithamster]

I really wonder with the community here some times. Have they only played WoW and the few more popular MMOs? Or just WoW and have seen other games in streams?
Dragonriding is just flight simulation gameplay. I logged hundreds of hours in Pilotwings before anyone even dreamed of a Warcraft MMO.

Exxactly this.. people claim that their <insert favourite game here> invented <mechanic X>. This is especially the case lately with the GW2 playerbase, it's really frustrating. Objectivity goes out the window.

[Marlamin]

>Buttload of D4 and OW news
>Nothing about WoW / DF

Nice.

Not sure why there would be WoW specific news at an Xbox/Bethesda specific conference. The only exception would be if it were to come to Game Pass which I (at the very least) don't see happening before the acquisition completes.

[Dracullus]

Wow, I'm more surprised about Overwatch 2. Free to play (including single player, right?) and coming October this year? So 2023 is pretty easy to guess: 1st half Dragonflight, 2nd half Diablo IV. Hopefully normal Blizzcon '23 in November after merger with 10.2 (I hope not 10.1) news and new survival game full reveal.

Not sure why there would be WoW specific news at an Xbox/Bethesda specific conference. The only exception would be if it were to come to Game Pass which I (at the very least) don't see happening before the acquisition completes.

Same reason why would there be Diablo 4 or Overwatch news. But right now there is nothing to announce for broad audience. Beta or pre-order is something important for WoW community, for rest only release day or something like releasing game on pass would be big enough.

[Marlamin]

Wow, I'm more surprised about Overwatch 2. Free to play (including single player, right?) and coming October this year? So 2023 is pretty easy to guess: 1st half Dragonflight, 2nd half Diablo IV. Hopefully normal Blizzcon '23 in November after merger with 10.2 (I hope not 10.1) news and new survival game full reveal.

D4 should be on or before June 2023 since all games shown at the conference were "planned to release in the next 12 months" (though plans can change ofc).

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Same reason why would there be Diablo 4 or Overwatch news. But right now there is nothing to announce for broad audience. Beta or pre-order is something important for WoW community, for rest only release day or something like releasing game on pass would be big enough.

Both of those are on Xbox.