Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

I am fairly optimistic about Dragonflight but I also don't think it will be as content heavy as Legion. Expansion after that will be where we might see significant additional resources.

This always sounds like a weird argument to me? How will it have significantly less content than Legion when pretty much everything has carried over since then? Or or that matter, carried over with significant improvements like M+ seasonal affixes?

It likely won't be as big a jump as Legion was from the content sahara that was WoD, but the game is already stuffed to the brim with expected content each new major patch, expecting significantly more is just begging the question of when we have more than is feasible.

[Nyel]

Wow....think you can give me some winning lottery numbers here? You seem to know an awful lot about an expansion that NO ONE....except the internal alpha testers and you of course....has seen. Pretty ballsey to be making such comments.

What's ballsy about that? We know the feature list. We know how many zones there will be. What do you think will the mysterious Alpha or Beta have in store that they have not announced yet? Like come on. Dragonflight is nowhere near that. Again, this is an observation and nothing else.

[Sondrelk]

Huh? It's already clear that Dragonflight won't be the Legion-type of renaissance that WoW is in dire need of, has nothing to do with "this expansion will fail". People left and right here and everywhere else were expecting a Legion-kind of expansion for Dragonflight with bombast, content and packed with features. We get nothing of the sort. It's a simple obversation.

Based on what? Your wholly objective gut feeling?
Legion was a smash hit because it was fan service heavy, but more importantly because it came off WoD, the most anemic expansion the game has had, shortest one as well.

You know what else WoW is in dire need of? An expansion that focuses on core systems instead of chasing the hype endlessly.

[Nyel]

This always sounds like a weird argument to me? How will it have significantly less content than Legion when pretty much everything has carried over since then? Or or that matter, carried over with significant improvements like M+ seasonal affixes?

It likely won't be as big a jump as Legion was from the content sahara that was WoD, but the game is already stuffed to the brim with expected content each new major patch, expecting significantly more is just begging the question of when we have more than is feasible.

I guess it's more about the cadence than the content itself? If we ignore that Shadowlands had an entire tier less (and a terrible cadence), BfA was pretty close to the Legion-schedule yet with delays.

[SunspotAnims]

Huh? It's already clear that Dragonflight won't be the Legion-type of renaissance that WoW is in dire need of, has nothing to do with "this expansion will fail". People left and right here and everywhere else were expecting a Legion-kind of expansion for Dragonflight with bombast, content and packed with features. We get nothing of the sort. It's a simple obversation.

Content =/ Features. To use the Legion comparison, a lot of the content that made Legion great wasn't even mentioned at its announcement. World quests weren't mentioned at its reveal and the entirety of Suramar was basically a name on a map and little else. In this sense the judgements you're making about Dragonflight could have just as easily been made about Legion at the time of its reveal and I can assure you they were.

It is simply too early to be able to reasonably pass such judgement. It isn't "simple observation", it's "biased observation", and it's fine if you want to take that stance but do be aware that people were saying the exact same about Legion when it was announced.

[Nyel]

Based on what? Your wholly objective gut feeling?
Legion was a smash hit because it was fan service heavy, but more importantly because it came off WoD, the most anemic expansion the game has had, shortest one as well.

You know what else WoW is in dire need of? An expansion that focuses on core systems instead of chasing the hype endlessly.

Based on what we know and what they have announced?

So you think because Dragonflight follows the terribly received Shadowlands it will already be seen as a hit? That didn't work out for Shadowlands either, did it?

Yes, WoW needs an expansion that's back to the core. But that doesn't mean that "less" is more overall and that seems to be their approach in Dragonflight.

[Sondrelk]

What's ballsy about that? We know the feature list. We know how many zones there will be. What do you think will the mysterious Alpha or Beta have in store that they have not announced yet? Like come on. Dragonflight is nowhere near that. Again, this is an observation and nothing else.

The Dragonflight Alpha could have a good WoW expansion that players enjoy playing more than they enjoyed BfA and SL.
It has a new class/race that is intriguing for new and old players. It has revamped flying to make world exploration different. It seems to have good world design that is enjoyable to spend time in. It has tier sets that were absent from the end of Legion until 9.2. It has a newer take on rotational M+ dungeons.

Dragonflight has good stuff in it, and more importantly seems to be generally good instead of fanservice heavy, the pyrite to the gold of a good game.

[Nyel]

Content =/ Features. To use the Legion comparison, a lot of the content that made Legion great wasn't even mentioned at its announcement. World quests weren't mentioned at its reveal and the entirety of Suramar was basically a name on a map and little else. In this sense the judgements you're making about Dragonflight could have just as easily been made about Legion at the time of its reveal and I can assure you they were.

It is simply too early to be able to reasonably pass such judgement. It isn't "simple observation", it's "biased observation", and it's fine if you want to take that stance but do be aware that people were making the exact same judgments about Legion when it was announced.

They announced Dragonflight two months ago. We haven't gotten any piece of serious new information since then. The player is not to blame for their terrible communication regarding the upcoming expansion. There's a difference between suspense and apathy and we already crossed the line between the two.

[Dracullus]

Thanks for the usual, pre-alpha "this expansion will fail".

1. Excited for new reveal.
2. I expected nothing, still dissapointed.
3. This thing that earned millions $ is total failure and that's a FACT.
4. But I'm excited for new reveal.

They announced Dragonflight two months ago. We haven't gotten any piece of serious new information since then. The player is not to blame for their terrible communication regarding the upcoming expansion. There's a difference between suspense and apathy and we already crossed the line between the two.

Yes, Blizzard seriously fucked up here. In every single expansion we had (SERIOUS) news every week after reveal. For example Legion, we had reveal on Gamescom 8/6/15 and next (SERIOUS) piece of information just few days later on Blizzcon 11/6/15.

[Sondrelk]

I guess it's more about the cadence than the content itself? If we ignore that Shadowlands had an entire tier less (and a terrible cadence), BfA was pretty close to the Legion-schedule yet with delays.

But that isnt content. That is just a better, more even spread of content to make droughts more bearable.

[8bithamster]

That's not really true so as there's a huge difference between "best" and "good enough for dungeons". The amount of Champion Points you need to do any kind of content besides maybe the hardest timed raids is very low. And for the gear cap of 160 CP you barely need half a day of playtime. Champion Points at least are a system that gives your entire account an ongoing progression. That's something WoW desperately needs. If we had one, they wouldn't have started doing the borrowed power crap back in Legion.

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Is it so hard to grasp? If they would just extend the talent tree to not come to a halt at max level but have a small max level talent tree at the bottom where you can earn - I don't know - 5 more talent points that are exclusively spent in the bottom section - yes, I want that. And this can easily carry over into the next expansion by just turning some of those talents into new nodes while leveling up... I mean it's as easy as it could be and you still have progression at max level.

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See comment above.

And yes, GW2 and ESO are pretty much praised for their horizontal approach - sure, they get negativity for that as well (and in some parts rightfully so), but they do something right where WoW fails (by not having something similar at all).

I dislike that there is no gear progression in GW2 or ESO because they "capped" the gear at a respective level and went with it. And then introduced stuff like Mythics (ESO) or Ascended (GW2) to still spice things up, but the gear treadmill is missing. I hate that it's every 6 months in WoW, but to have a game like ESO or GW2 where you wear your gear for 4-5 years feels quite boring.

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Don't know what you mean. WoW basically copies GW2 flying system in Dragonflight. They already pretty much adapted to the GW2 system of scaling the world / content and the horizontal progression is there as well. Don't know what it has to do with "fans" when it's just a very basic observation.

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1) Not true. You can access it very early by just buying the expansion.

2) Not true either.

3) Has barely been the case. Sometimes it is, most times it's not.

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Dragonriding in Dragonflight is basically a 100% copy of GW2's flying. Doesn't mean GW2 invented it, but it couldn't be more obvious were Blizzard is copying Dragonriding from.

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Baffles me why people are acting like March 2023 wasn't the natural release date for this expansion from the moment we got the announcement and the clarification about SL season 4. It was always Q1/23.

You do realise.. that GW2 copied it right? right?! or are you that ignorant?

[Nyel]

But that isnt content. That is just a better, more even spread of content to make droughts more bearable.

While it might not be more content in general, it feels like more because it's timed better.

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You do realise.. that GW2 copied it right? right?! or are you that ignorant?

I mean you even quoted that, but unfortunately didn't grasp what I was saying.

Doesn't mean GW2 invented it

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1. Excited for new reveal.
2. I expected nothing, still dissapointed.
3. This thing that earned millions $ is total failure and that's a FACT.
4. But I'm excited for new reveal.

I am 100% sure even you have been - even if it's just a little bit - disappointed by the Dragonflight announcement because you've been overly critical about Shadowlands as well and expected more than what we're about to get.

[Sondrelk]

Based on what we know and what they have announced?

So you think because Dragonflight follows the terribly received Shadowlands it will already be seen as a hit? That didn't work out for Shadowlands either, did it?

Yes, WoW needs an expansion that's back to the core. But that doesn't mean that "less" is more overall and that seems to be their approach in Dragonflight.

I think Dragonflight will be a hit because it focuses on much needed stuff like a Talent tree revamp. A flying Revamp. A more grounded, personal story. A better approach to instanced PvE content than before. A general approach to designing the game that focuses on evergreen improvements rather than temporary bandaids or gimmicks etc.

And even with the less thing. How do you even know that for certain? Sure we don't have a big setpiece piece of content like Torghast, but that doesnt mean the developers are leaving a black hole of content where it used to be, it more likely means they spread that effort into other bits of the game, like Dragonriding mecahnics and challenges.

And of course. The developers specifically stated endgame specific content being available in one of the zones. It's not like the Suramar illusion mechanic, or the accompanying withered training was showcased front and center on the gameplay trailer.

[8bithamster]

While it might not be more content in general, it feels like more because it's timed better.

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I mean you even quoted that, but unfortunately didn't grasp what I was saying.

Doesn't mean GW2 invented it

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I am 100% sure even you have been - even if it's just a little bit - disappointed by the Dragonflight announcement because you've been overly critical about Shadowlands as well and expected more than what we're about to get.

So.. you whinge about Dragonflight "Copying GW2", but when GW2 does it, it's fine.. yikes

Fanboys will be fanboying

[Nyel]

And even with the less thing. How do you even know that for certain?

Okay, I don't know that, to be fair. But neither do you or anyone else.

Again, that's Blizzard's fault for not keeping us up to date and leaving us in limbo for two months now.

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So.. you whinge about Dragonflight "Copying GW2", but when GW2 does it, it's fine.. yikes

Fanboys will be fanboying

Guild Wars 2 didn't copy 100% of its mount system from another game lol. Show me a game where there's a siege turtle, a jumping bunny, a roller beetle - please, show me the games GW2 did copy all of that stuff from.

Whereas with Dragonriding it's completely clear that the WoW devs just copied the GW2 system. Heck there are comparison videos on YouTube and Dragonriding is identical to GW2 flying. Everything is the same. This has nothing to do with fanboying, it's a fact.

[Dracullus]

I am 100% sure even you have been - even if it's just a little bit - disappointed by the Dragonflight announcement because you've been overly critical about Shadowlands as well and expected more than what we're about to get.

This may blow your mind, but world isn't black&white for everyone. There are things in SL that were done best in whole series, there are things done worst, most is in between. But even that has nothing to do with SL being success or not, because selling most PC boxes on launch clearly was success no matter how you try to paint it.

[SunspotAnims]

They announced Dragonflight two months ago. We haven't gotten any piece of serious new information since then. The player is not to blame for their terrible communication regarding the upcoming expansion. There's a difference between suspense and apathy and we already crossed the line between the two.

I did say it was fine to take that stance, didn't I? I don't disagree that the ball is entirely in Blizzard's court to make a standout expansion; my point was that if we're going to be comparing DF to Legion then we should be cognizant of what Legion looked like when it was announced in comparison to how it was at release and at least acknowledge that there is more to the quality of an expansion than the number of hardline features that you can list off in a trailer.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This may blow your mind, but world isn't black&white for everyone. There are things in SL that were done best in whole series, there are things done worst, most is in between. But even that has nothing to do with SL being success or not, because selling most PC boxes on launch clearly was success no matter how you try to paint it.

I don't know why you bother he's been negative for like ever. Its exhausting and must be miserable.

[Dracullus]

I did say it was fine to take that stance, didn't I? I don't disagree that the ball is entirely in Blizzard's court to make a standout expansion; my point was that if we're going to be comparing DF to Legion then we should be cognizant of what Legion looked like when it was announced in comparison to how it was at release and at least acknowledge that there is more to the quality of an expansion than the number of hardline features that you can list off in a trailer.

Legion was just hour presentation like DF, then 3 months of almost full radio silence about expac (at some point we learned about all weapons, but that was close to Blizzcon if I remember correctly). Difference was that in Legion reveal they talked more about story, few dungeons and DH (but we learned about stuff like M+, world quests, transmog tab months later), in DF they rather focused on systems and zones were presented with more details.

This time we won't have Blizzcon materials, but Alpha would launch months before that anyway.

[Makorus]

Okay, I don't know that, to be fair. But neither do you or anyone else.

Again, that's Blizzard's fault for not keeping us up to date and leaving us in limbo for two months now.

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Guild Wars 2 didn't copy 100% of its mount system from another game lol. Show me a game where there's a siege turtle, a jumping bunny, a roller beetle - please, show me the games GW2 did copy all of that stuff from.

Whereas with Dragonriding it's completely clear that the WoW devs just copied the GW2 system. Heck there are comparison videos on YouTube and Dragonriding is identical to GW2 flying. Everything is the same. This has nothing to do with fanboying, it's a fact.

The Griffon is just wingsuits, found in a lot of game, the most recent and big budget one before PoF being Just Cause 3. Springer is jump high, Raptor is jump far, Skimmer is jump water. Warclaw is PvP. Jackal, I suppose, I can't really think of anything that's close to it, and while Roller Beetle is clearly inspired by arcade racing games, it's unique enough.

Skyscale is just a WoW Flying mount.

Outside of the Jackal (which is nigh useless anyway outside of Puzzles) and the Roller Beetle, the mounts are hardly unique. Sure, they are unique to MMOs, but they are hardly unique concept that took them a ton of time to think of. You act like it's the highlight of design in the MMO genre.