1. #58081
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Most people just don't like repeating the same content ad naseum in different difficulties, slowly grinding for gear, waiting for timegated stories. They treat the game like a CRPG with a social aspect and once the content for that dries out and depends on grind to get you anywhere (or it's only a few hours of gameplay every 4-6 months), they are gone.
    ArenaNet doesn't have the solution either.

    Do it again until it's perfect to get mastery points or do it again harder while standing on one foot while singing the Hokey Pokey to get gear? It doesn't help Blizzard that it ended up giving the choice of esports or actually grinding in hell.

  2. #58082
    Quote Originally Posted by manypillars View Post
    ArenaNet doesn't have the solution either.

    Do it again until it's perfect to get mastery points or do it again harder while standing on one foot while singing the Hokey Pokey to get gear? It doesn't help Blizzard that it ended up giving the choice of esports or actually grinding in hell.
    Never said it does, that was someone else. my only comment on other max level progression systems was on ESO and how bad that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Thats quite an assumption treating so many people that have the same specific beef.
    But the patterns exists. Over ten million buy each xpac. Yet multiple expacs retained at most 2 million. What is the difference in what is offered between an expac release and patches? A wealth of one-time content, most of which is story. Plus the chance to experience multiple instances. The playstyle of a casual at an expansion launch is slow leveling and exploring of the new content. The playstyle of the more dedicated fanbase is grinding; either by doing the same instances dozens if not hundreds of times or by doing the same dailies, world quests and rares.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    Sorry what did they copy? And if you say the flight, just don't. GW2 copied it from countless other games.
    I really wonder with the community here some times. Have they only played WoW and the few more popular MMOs? Or just WoW and have seen other games in streams?
    Dragonriding is just flight simulation gameplay. I logged hundreds of hours in Pilotwings before anyone even dreamed of a Warcraft MMO.

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    And they indeed made a Diablo 4 announcement! All hail the Necromancer!

  3. #58083
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    But the patterns exists. Over ten million buy each xpac. By most multiple expacs retained at most 2 million. What is the difference in what is offered between an expac release and patches? A wealth of one-time content, most of which is story. Plus the chance to experience multiple instances. The playstyle of a casual at an expansion launch is slow leveling and exploring of the new content. The playstyle of the more dedicated fanbase is grinding; either by doing the same instances dozens if not hundreds of times or by doing the same dailies, world quests and rares.
    Still more assumptions and I'm not buying it.
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  4. #58084
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Still more assumptions and I'm not buying it.
    I'd love to see alternate explanations. Why do people buy, play for 2-3 months and then leave? What brings them back for 2-3 months but not for longer?

  5. #58085
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I'd love to see alternate explanations. Why do people buy, play for 2-3 months and then leave? What brings them back for 2-3 months but not for longer?
    It is just the way most video games seem to be played. They buy the game play the story and then move on. I don't think it is a reflection of any games specific design or what content gamers prefer. It is just the nature of how things are consumed. People hit an "end point" even if it isn't technically the end. It might not be that more prefer the story/leveling but simply it being new anything that is played until some implied "end".
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #58086
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It is just the way most video games seem to be played. They buy the game play the story and then move on. I don't think it is a reflection of any games specific design or what content gamers prefer. It is just the nature of how things are consumed. People hit an "end point" even if it isn't technically the end. It might not be that more prefer the story/leveling but simply it being new anything that is played until some implied "end".
    Personally I think the design matters a lot but a gamer's feelings on a game varies and well there's no one way to design like a King.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  7. #58087
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    I mean you're never going to see features by this team that are about "Immersion", "Social Building" or "Roleplaying".

    There's no real reason to stay connected to the World of Azeroth because Blizzard has never utilized that strength in any way shape or form due to what I assume is the Teams feeling on the subject matter being "Roleplayers bad"/"Too costly" and the management stance is to stay firmly in the "Content Checklist" (Hi, Timeless Isle forever) territory until the product fades into the blue skies yonder.

    The modern WoW model is literally competing with the likes of Fortnite and other types of session based games just like WoW where the update rate is far higher due to better profit margins for continuous development compared to WoW's old school development of Patches. (Masking it as seasons to stay up to date with the industry is just silly.)

    When you boil down WoW's content to just instanced content it does push the game in a direction where it cannot compete with other titles due to its production pipeline being fucked and the management of the company knowing that and echoing it to investors since Legion. The concepts and creativity that a MMORPG does give to the developers is just not utilized at all anymore and instead they've pidgeonholed the game into New Raids+New Megadungeon+2/3 Content Islands.
    (iterated on from Mists of Pandaria that don't even have any connection to the user beyond "New place we go to due to writers telling you so rather than even introducing the concepts of them in the base product and so forth.")

    Besides it is uncertain if the spiky nature of the engagement as we've seen in the modern era is bad or not. It may be that it is benefitial for the company in ways that we don't realize and is why they did move into this direction in the first place.

    It doesn't mean its benefitial for the consumers but the company may have found this model of WoW Token + Spiky Engagement with Marketing around Seasons to be the best solution with least amount of cost issues.
    Last edited by Foreign Exchange Ztudent; 2022-06-12 at 07:19 PM.
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  8. #58088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean from the fact that there is a massive surge of subs every new xpac that recedes just as much after a couple of months we can extrapolate that the most popular content in WoW is the new zones and storylines. People do that, try the dungeons a few times (probably on Heroic), maybe check the raid in LFR then logout until the next xpac with maybe checking for a month during patches but not staying for long and not all at once like with an xpac release.

    Most people just don't like repeating the same content ad naseum in different difficulties, slowly grinding for gear, waiting for timegated stories. They treat the game like a CRPG with a social aspect and once the content for that dries out and depends on grind to get you anywhere (or it's only a few hours of gameplay every 4-6 months), they are gone.
    Of course, and it gives clickbaiters like Bellurar perfect material few months after release: HALF OF PLAYERS LEFT GAME IS END NEAR??? while most of these people are usual tourists.

  9. #58089
    >Buttload of D4 and OW news
    >Nothing about WoW / DF

    Nice.

  10. #58090
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasoka View Post
    >Buttload of D4 and OW news
    >Nothing about WoW / DF

    Nice.
    I mean it could be worse, we could have no talent trees to look at.
    I no longer reply to quotations beyond if you're asking a genuine question or have a non-confrontational stance.

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  11. #58091
    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Exchange Ztudent View Post
    I mean it could be worse, we could have no talent trees to look at.
    >It could be worse

    Yeah like 2 years ago I'd agree with this statement. Not anymore though.

  12. #58092
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post


    I really wonder with the community here some times. Have they only played WoW and the few more popular MMOs? Or just WoW and have seen other games in streams?
    Dragonriding is just flight simulation gameplay. I logged hundreds of hours in Pilotwings before anyone even dreamed of a Warcraft MMO.
    Exxactly this.. people claim that their <insert favourite game here> invented <mechanic X>. This is especially the case lately with the GW2 playerbase, it's really frustrating. Objectivity goes out the window.

  13. #58093
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasoka View Post
    >Buttload of D4 and OW news
    >Nothing about WoW / DF

    Nice.
    Not sure why there would be WoW specific news at an Xbox/Bethesda specific conference. The only exception would be if it were to come to Game Pass which I (at the very least) don't see happening before the acquisition completes.

  14. #58094
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    Wow, I'm more surprised about Overwatch 2. Free to play (including single player, right?) and coming October this year? So 2023 is pretty easy to guess: 1st half Dragonflight, 2nd half Diablo IV. Hopefully normal Blizzcon '23 in November after merger with 10.2 (I hope not 10.1) news and new survival game full reveal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    Not sure why there would be WoW specific news at an Xbox/Bethesda specific conference. The only exception would be if it were to come to Game Pass which I (at the very least) don't see happening before the acquisition completes.
    Same reason why would there be Diablo 4 or Overwatch news. But right now there is nothing to announce for broad audience. Beta or pre-order is something important for WoW community, for rest only release day or something like releasing game on pass would be big enough.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2022-06-12 at 07:23 PM.

  15. #58095
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Wow, I'm more surprised about Overwatch 2. Free to play (including single player, right?) and coming October this year? So 2023 is pretty easy to guess: 1st half Dragonflight, 2nd half Diablo IV. Hopefully normal Blizzcon '23 in November after merger with 10.2 (I hope not 10.1) news and new survival game full reveal.
    D4 should be on or before June 2023 since all games shown at the conference were "planned to release in the next 12 months" (though plans can change ofc).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Same reason why would there be Diablo 4 or Overwatch news. But right now there is nothing to announce for broad audience. Beta or pre-order is something important for WoW community, for rest only release day or something like releasing game on pass would be big enough.
    Both of those are on Xbox.

  16. #58096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    D4 should be on or before June 2023 since all games shown at the conference were "planned to release in the next 12 months" (though plans can change ofc).
    Maybe, although I think Diablo 4 and Dragonflight are paradoxically even more direct competition than retail and classic. But Dragonflight could release really early into 2023.

  17. #58097
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    D4 beta and release year, OW release date, guess we are getting wow beta and preorders soon.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  18. #58098
    Bloodsail Admiral Foreign Exchange Ztudent's Avatar
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    Based on the preliminary release date of the Prequel book, the expansion would be placed in March 2023 based on previous estimations of Prequel book to Expansion release.
    Last edited by Foreign Exchange Ztudent; 2022-06-12 at 07:31 PM.
    I no longer reply to quotations beyond if you're asking a genuine question or have a non-confrontational stance.

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  19. #58099
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Never said it does, that was someone else. my only comment on other max level progression systems was on ESO and how bad that is.
    Oh, I was agreeing with you. Content has a shelf life. Blizzard can't escape that with seasons and affixes any more than ArenaNet can with masteries and legendaries.

  20. #58100
    Quote Originally Posted by manypillars View Post
    Oh, I was agreeing with you. Content has a shelf life. Blizzard can't escape that with seasons and affixes any more than ArenaNet can with masteries and legendaries.
    Really there is only one good solution. Make more content.

    I will wonder forever if they good create evergreen content by making use of timewalking or an old world revamp and then add it on a rotation to cover time between patches.

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