1. #58321
    Saying Dracthyr/Evoker is a new race and class is pretty disingenuous, especially from Blizzard, since it's really just a class with the race being a reskin + combat form you can add some customization to, but you can't play it for any other class. If you could deeply customize Druid forms, that wouldn't be considered a new race - Dracthyr shouldn't really be either as long as they're locked into Evokers only or Evokers are locked into them only.

    Regardless, I don't see how this could be considered a small expansion when it has:
    - Revamped Talents system to have a better structure for future design, both for additions & possible borrowed powers that could be added per expansion
    - Revamped Professions
    - Revamped/Upgraded UI
    - New type of flying
    - Reputation updates

    And all/most of these are more than just design updates, they're complete overhauls of the systems to modernize them.

    On a whole, this expansion is looking much stronger than Shadowlands just based on the info we have, but I feel it's incredibly disrespectful to the community that we were told Alpha was "Soon, not Soon TM", and that we'd see talent trees & the Dracthyr art blog post soon, and after 2 months since reveal we've only seen talent trees for 2 classes.

  2. #58322
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Legion:
    -New Class
    -Artifact weapons and their progression system
    -Class Hall campaigns
    -New honor system
    -Transmog update
    You forgot a couple of big ones here: the World Quest system & Mythic+ Dungeons, both of which have been fairly large additions to WoW since inception. Not that I disagree with your overall point, DF looks to be anything but sparse. But with those two items added on to what you already have for Legion, I'd argue Legion was bigger overall than what DF looks to be.

  3. #58323
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    You forgot a couple of big ones here: the World Quest system & Mythic+ Dungeons, both of which have been fairly large additions to WoW since inception. Not that I disagree with your overall point, DF looks to be anything but sparse. But with those two items added on to what you already have for Legion, I'd argue Legion was bigger overall than what DF looks to be.
    Legion was the dream expansion for base systems that are now successfully being built upon and I'm ready to see what's next

  4. #58324
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumbleweed010 View Post
    Saying Dracthyr/Evoker is a new race and class is pretty disingenuous, especially from Blizzard, since it's really just a class with the race being a reskin + combat form you can add some customization to, but you can't play it for any other class.
    That is a silly statement. It is still a new race and class being added to the game. Where has it ever been stated that a race needs to be open to more then one class in order to be a race? Druid forms wouldn't be considered new because they already exist in the game. It would still be new customization options for them as we saw with Legion and the few other times they got new forms/glyphs. Drac'thyr don't exist so they are indeed a new race.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  5. #58325
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    That is a silly statement. It is still a new race and class being added to the game. Where has it ever been stated that a race needs to be open to more then one class in order to be a race? Druid forms wouldn't be considered new because they already exist in the game. It would still be new customization options for them as we saw with Legion and the few other times they got new forms/glyphs. Drac'thyr don't exist so they are indeed a new race.
    I mean given that if you don't enjoy Evoker you have no other way to play Dracthyr, it is very limited as a race.

  6. #58326
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    "Based on what I heard" We all saw the dragonflight presentation. And I'm not the first person to point out its features are extremely sparse. For future reference, if you're going to try to gaslight me don't do it over something half this forum has also been saying.
    Not sure if you noticed, but no one here treats you seriously. Not after gems like "200 encrypted files? AR's confirmed! One file per heritage armour piece!"
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-06-17 at 07:13 AM.
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  7. #58327
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    You forgot a couple of big ones here: the World Quest system & Mythic+ Dungeons, both of which have been fairly large additions to WoW since inception. Not that I disagree with your overall point, DF looks to be anything but sparse. But with those two items added on to what you already have for Legion, I'd argue Legion was bigger overall than what DF looks to be.
    You're right.

  8. #58328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean given that if you don't enjoy Evoker you have no other way to play Dracthyr, it is very limited as a race.
    Dracthyr doesn't really feel like new race for me, it's more like Human and Belf got unique hero class with separate customization. Yes, just like Demon Hunters.

  9. #58329
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Dracthyr doesn't really feel like new race for me, it's more like Human and Belf got unique hero class with separate customization. Yes, just like Demon Hunters.
    I'd agree if we were just talking about Visage, but the Dracthyr form seems to be in line with current full-fledged races for customization, like with post-SL variety of options. I also strongly suspect that the only reason they locked them to Evoker was for the lore coherence of them having not dealt with typical adventurers and classes, and that there will probably be an unlock in 10.1.5 to 10.2.5, after mortals have been running around the Dragon Isles with them for a while.

  10. #58330
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I'd agree if we were just talking about Visage, but the Dracthyr form seems to be in line with current full-fledged races for customization, like with post-SL variety of options. I also strongly suspect that the only reason they locked them to Evoker was for the lore coherence of them having not dealt with typical adventurers and classes, and that there will probably be an unlock in 10.1.5 to 10.2.5, after mortals have been running around the Dragon Isles with them for a while.
    The thing is, if they are made to tap into the powers of the different flights then mage, shaman and druid would at the very least make sense.

  11. #58331
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    It really is like talking to a wall.

    Nyel: It's worst it's ever been. It's ridiculous. Blizzard embarrass themselves. No one cares. I don't care for sure. It's buzz buzz buzz.

    People: *listing examples and dates from past proving that testing is almost exactly fucking same last 10 years*

    Nyel: So anyway, it's worst it's ever been...
    Never said anything like that on the last pages, but it’s funny how you need to make everything personal when you’re out of arguments. Without insulting or talking about me, you really have not much to say anyway. Maybe work on that, your obsession with me is unhealthy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    The expansion that has the largest continent since Wrath, and a new race and class, and a talent revamp, is somehow the smallest expansion ever when we have gotten 2 expansions without any races or classes, and continents half the size of Northrend. This thread needs to seriously do a better job at not feeding the trolls.
    Supposedly the largest continent. Right now we have nothing but words in that regard to prove it. And smallest expansion is clearly reaching, that should be pretty obvious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    Legion was the dream expansion for base systems that are now successfully being built upon and I'm ready to see what's next
    This. Legion established so many things that are seen as base game now and this cannot be stressed enough. Unfortunately none of the things from the later expansions have received this status yet and it’s a shame that they don’t even try to do something similar.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  12. #58332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Never said anything like that on the last pages, but it’s funny how you need to make everything personal when you’re out of arguments. Without insulting or talking about me, you really have not much to say anyway. Maybe work on that, your obsession with me is unhealthy.
    Good old "it's your personal obsession" deflect. It's not like you doomsaying how we are in some unusual radio silence last two months. It's just my obsessed imagination.

  13. #58333
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post

    Right now we have nothing but words in that regard to prove it.
    Funny, one could say the exact same thing about your constant doomsaying.
    Last edited by ExiHext; 2022-06-17 at 08:26 AM.

  14. #58334
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The thing is, if they are made to tap into the powers of the different flights then mage, shaman and druid would at the very least make sense.
    I see where your connection is, but the way that the dragonflights use those types of magic isn't really the same way that mortal classes approach them. Like a black dragon isn't communing with the elements, using totems, making use of storm/tide/wind/etc. they're at best innately making use of some earth-specific magic and then raw fire and shadow magic. A green dragon is completely separate from the whole animal-based identity core to druids as well as most of their balance side. A blue dragon can cast spells identical to a mage, but there's not much reason for them to end up a mage in isolation when the blue fight is just one of five things they can tap into.

    So even those somewhat related classes are things they'd really need to see mortals practicing first. The idea of using all the elements and totems to anchor them, the idea of using the bestial aspects of nature magic to turn into other forms, the idea of dedicating your practice to SOLELY arcane disciplines in order to perfect them.

  15. #58335
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    "Based on what I heard" We all saw the dragonflight presentation. And I'm not the first person to point out its features are extremely sparse. For future reference, if you're going to try to gaslight me don't do it over something half this forum has also been saying.
    And your source? Let me guess.. The presentation? Where they never reveal everything completely? Yea.. Thought so!

  16. #58336
    Legion seemed very sparse from the Gamescom Reveal.

    The big thing of the Legion reveal were artifact weapons, and after the outrage, of course something similar is not gonna be there.

    About borrowed power: "You think that you don't, but you do".

  17. #58337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I'd agree if we were just talking about Visage, but the Dracthyr form seems to be in line with current full-fledged races for customization, like with post-SL variety of options. I also strongly suspect that the only reason they locked them to Evoker was for the lore coherence of them having not dealt with typical adventurers and classes, and that there will probably be an unlock in 10.1.5 to 10.2.5, after mortals have been running around the Dragon Isles with them for a while.
    Maybe. Main reason are probably animations, because from what we know both forms will be usable in combat. Strange they didn't go lazy way: give visage to all races + make dragon as only combat form. That would shut up every discussion of making new races for Evoker or new classes for Dracthyr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Legion seemed very sparse from the Gamescom Reveal.

    The big thing of the Legion reveal were artifact weapons, and after the outrage, of course something similar is not gonna be there.

    About borrowed power: "You think that you don't, but you do".
    And next Legion info came 3 months later. And Legion reveal didn't have massive interview campaign that revealed new stuff never talked about in reveal. And usual week-to-week info was more sparse than now (just check wowhead, it was mostly 6.2.2 info from time to time). And Alpha started even after Blizzcon with just Demon Hunter zone, before end of year we didn't even have half specs available. But no, we don't have arguments.

    Fastest reveal->launch I remember was BfA, even there Alpha took 3 months to launch. 3 months after DF reveal is mid-July, which sounds like reasonable date for Alpha, especially since 9.2.5 launched faster than many people expected. We will see.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2022-06-17 at 08:43 AM.

  18. #58338
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Legion seemed very sparse from the Gamescom Reveal.

    The big thing of the Legion reveal were artifact weapons, and after the outrage, of course something similar is not gonna be there.

    About borrowed power: "You think that you don't, but you do".
    The difference is, artifacts and class halls alone could feed months of speculation.

  19. #58339
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The difference is, artifacts and class halls alone could feed months of speculation.
    I mean, sure, but do we expect Blizzard to develop features based on how much pre-release speculation it would generate?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Maybe. Main reason are probably animations, because from what we know both forms will be usable in combat. Strange they didn't go lazy way: give visage to all races + make dragon as only combat form. That would shut up every discussion of making new races for Evoker or new classes for Dracthyr.



    And next Legion info came 3 months later. And Legion reveal didn't have massive interview campaign that revealed new stuff never talked about in reveal. And usual week-to-week info was more sparse than now (just check wowhead, it was mostly 6.2.2 info from time to time). And Alpha started even after Blizzcon with just Demon Hunter zone, before end of year we didn't even have half specs available. But no, we don't have arguments.

    Fastest reveal->launch I remember was BfA, even there Alpha took 3 months to launch. 3 months after DF reveal is mid-July, which sounds like reasonable date for Alpha, especially since 9.2.5 launched faster than many people expected. We will see.
    It's only the Dragonform in combat.

  20. #58340
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I mean, sure, but do we expect Blizzard to develop features based on how much pre-release speculation it would generate?
    Hey in this thread? Sure!

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