1. #58481
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Honestly I am not suggesting anything, just saying there are multiple views. All the lore that claims Azeroth is the last Titan comes from the other Titans who cannot possibly know this since they were confined for ages and never explored the entire universe
    So Wrathion and Illidan are titans now? Lmao. You are suggesting things because you are claiming there are multiple views. How can that be the case if you are also not suggesting something? The audio drama "A Thousand Years of War" also implies the Titans knew about Argus as buildings and architecture was built similar to those on Azeroth. While it is possible that Sargeras had those built the more likely conclusion is that Argus was visited and ordered by the Titans.

    And we know there are worlds outside Legion control (Elunaria), life outside planets (remnants of Ka'resh).
    So then your original point is wrong because you said you thought Azeroth was the last planet when you just stated Elunaria exists as a planet. Strange isn't that? The Burning Legion wouldn't have deprived anima from the Shadowlands because life still exists elsewhere and not all souls killed by the Demons are used to power Fel magic/machines. You also said Sargeras wouldn't have cared about other places with life so they can surely provide plenty of anima to the shadowlands, right?
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-06-20 at 07:42 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  2. #58482
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So Wrathion and Illidan are titans now? Lmao.
    Wrathion's quote came immediately after he took Aman'thul's essence from Ra'den, so yes, it was inspired by a Titan. As for Illidan, we have no idea how he came into the idea that Azeroth is the Final Titan. How does he even know Azeroth is a Titan?

    Seriously people, the point is discussion, not debate and antagonism.

  3. #58483
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Wrathion's quote came immediately after he took Aman'thul's essence from Ra'den, so yes, it was inspired by a Titan. As for Illidan, we have no idea how he came into the idea that Azeroth is the Final Titan. How does he even know Azeroth is a Titan?
    Illidan is from Azeroth and would have experienced Titan stuff. He also travelled the cosmos to gather intel on the Legion and would have learned about Titans from there. Lmao.

    You keep making arguments that aren't backed up by any of your statements then label others as antagonistic simply because they challenge your "discussion"?
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-06-20 at 08:05 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #58484
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Illidan is from Azeroth and would have experienced Titan stuff. He also travelled the cosmos to gather intel on the Legion and would have learned about Titans from there. Lmao.

    You keep making arguments that aren't backed up by any of your statements then label others as antagonistic simply because they challenge your "discussion"?
    I am not making arguments. I am speculating. No one we know on Azeroth seems to knew about the Titan stuff until we started digging things up. I mean if someone knew would it not be Azshara? Yet she did not know anything about the Legion, about Azeroth having a world soul or about the Old Gods. The Night Elves did not know about what was under Silithus or Northrend.
    And when did Illidan travel the cosmos? He was imprisoned for ten thousand years. And then on Illidan he was using knowledge made available by rebel demons to access legion worlds and then blow them up, using a principle he personally saw in Outland. And then got imprisoned again.

    I am just asking questions on how some things might work.

  5. #58485
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I am not making arguments. I am speculating.
    Speculation is an argument. Illidan also joined the Burning Legion for a short time. The Dragon aspects also interacted with the Highborne in some capacity. A black Dragon took on the form of a Highmaul Tuaren. The Titans wouldn't have been an unknown concept to the races that have existed on Azeroth for a long time. Why would Azshara know stuff about the Legion prior to being contacted by the Legion?

    You also answered your own question about when Illidan traveled the cosmos. How can he destroy legion worlds, gain intel, and formulate a plan to steal stuff if he didn't actually travel anywhere?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #58486
    I still think Azeroth is the First One of Reality. "She is not the last but the first" along with our PCs being able to interact with the waystone while no other mortal could.

    Idk I think it's going to be a reveal where we learn that the first ones serve as a kind of council and Azeroth was a creation as a kind of living Dragon Soul. The First One of Order kept her because Order is probably the most neutral force.

    This makes sense when we see literally every force has tried to make a play for Azeroth.
    Death with the Jailer
    Disorder with the legion
    Life with the emerald dream
    Light with the queen naaru
    Even Order with re-origination
    (OK some are a stretch)

    Azeroth also holds parts of every other cosmic force

  7. #58487
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    If that's so why did the invasion instantly end the moment Sargeras was imprisoned?

    There's so many references to "Sargeras' power" any innate power demons had beforehand was basically a racial ability: Hardly a substantial threat to any planet.
    Because Demons are the living embodiment of Disorder. Once Sargeras was no longer keeping things together, they quickly ran off to pursue their own interests.

  8. #58488
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    I still think Azeroth is the First One of Reality. "She is not the last but the first" along with our PCs being able to interact with the waystone while no other mortal could.

    Idk I think it's going to be a reveal where we learn that the first ones serve as a kind of council and Azeroth was a creation as a kind of living Dragon Soul. The First One of Order kept her because Order is probably the most neutral force.

    This makes sense when we see literally every force has tried to make a play for Azeroth.
    Death with the Jailer
    Disorder with the legion
    Life with the emerald dream
    Light with the queen naaru
    Even Order with re-origination
    (OK some are a stretch)

    Azeroth also holds parts of every other cosmic force
    I think it would be more interesting if world souls and titans are rather the desired result of the experiment. They set up the six forces and then they watch them interact in the middle. Azeroth is the pinnacle of the experiment. They might even show up when the time comes for that part of the experiment to bear fruit.

  9. #58489
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    Idk I think it's going to be a reveal where we learn that the first ones serve as a kind of council and Azeroth was a creation as a kind of living Dragon Soul. The First One of Order kept her because Order is probably the most neutral force.
    If Azeroth is a First One it is more likely that the Titans wanted to control her for their own goals. The viewpoint we have always been presented is that the Titans are "good" but they simply could be just as bad as the other cosmic forces that are trying to get control of Azeroth. The Titans are just the ones that have been in control for the longest.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  10. #58490
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If Azeroth is a First One it is more likely that the Titans wanted to control her for their own goals. The viewpoint we have always been presented is that the Titans are "good" but they simply could be just as bad as the other cosmic forces that are trying to get control of Azeroth. The Titans are just the ones that have been in control for the longest.
    i mean the Titans have started Ordering reality and if anything based on the cosmic map she is the representative

  11. #58491
    Soon (tm).

  12. #58492
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    Soon (tm).
    alpha first tuesday of july

  13. #58493
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because Demons are the living embodiment of Disorder. Once Sargeras was no longer keeping things together, they quickly ran off to pursue their own interests.
    This describes them only after Sargeras teaches them his dark secrets, like how to attune to the twisting neather: (For the most part) All "demons" came under the service of Sargeras the same way the Eredar did: They were normal races who were coerced into working for him. Sure they're were true believers in Sargeras' crusade, but the majority of them were essentially enslaved. Why shouldn't we assume they just want to go back to their normal lives now that he's gone.

  14. #58494
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    This describes them only after Sargeras teaches them his dark secrets, like how to attune to the twisting neather: (For the most part) All "demons" came under the service of Sargeras the same way the Eredar did: They were normal races who were coerced into working for him. Sure they're were true believers in Sargeras' crusade, but the majority of them were essentially enslaved. Why shouldn't we assume they just want to go back to their normal lives now that he's gone.
    Because this isn't what Demons are. It's what SOME demons are.

    There were and are original demonic races that predate the fall of Sargeras.

    In fact, the Demon Hunter start quests take place on what is left of Mordum, which was the prison dimension Sargeras used to hold demons he killed. His destruction of this planet/dimension after he fell and freeing the demons he killed is what exposed him to enough fel to mutate.

  15. #58495
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    This describes them only after Sargeras teaches them his dark secrets, like how to attune to the twisting neather: (For the most part) All "demons" came under the service of Sargeras the same way the Eredar did: They were normal races who were coerced into working for him. Sure they're were true believers in Sargeras' crusade, but the majority of them were essentially enslaved. Why shouldn't we assume they just want to go back to their normal lives now that he's gone.
    Sargeras was hunting demons that were causing trouble to things Titans ordered before he formed the Legion. That means demons would go back to causing trouble and things, right? Their "normal" lives, right? Demons are also naturally attuned to the Twisting Nether. That isn't something Sargeras taught them or caused. It is why Sargeras had to build a prison to hold them.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #58496
    Do we really know much about Fel? We know there are natural fel creatures but most "demons" are corrupted things; corrupted titan constructs (from the Kanrethad quest), corrupted mortals like the Eredar, then we have the Nathrezim. Really, Sargeras, the Nathrezim and Eredar were shown as the primary fel users in the story and none of them are natively fel aligned. While Legion showed a truly wide variety of demons and showed a lot of what the Burning Legion accomplished, we did not learn much about the actual demonic races like the Shivarra, Sayad, Annihilan and Mo'arg. If they ever decided to revisit fel, there would be a lot of new lore to build.

    Honestly before Shadowlands I thought the six forces were disconnected planes of concept instead of actual locations with the Shadowlands being a transitive plane leading to Death instead of being Death itself. Now we fully expect every one of the six forces to have their own continent-sized areas to explore later on (which was probably the intent). And we don't know anything more about Fel than we know about the other five.

  17. #58497
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    This describes them only after Sargeras teaches them his dark secrets, like how to attune to the twisting neather: (For the most part) All "demons" came under the service of Sargeras the same way the Eredar did: They were normal races who were coerced into working for him. Sure they're were true believers in Sargeras' crusade, but the majority of them were essentially enslaved. Why shouldn't we assume they just want to go back to their normal lives now that he's gone.
    It's still inherent to being a demon. Why or how they became demons doesn't matter. That they did does. Sargeras didn't make Disorder. He only made them be of Disorder.

  18. #58498
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    He wasn't?

    Because they sure as hell wrote him to be just that.
    Seeing as he was the one who orchestrated the Nathrezims ploys, the creation of the Burning Legion and the Lich King, up to and including the just right stabbing of Azeroth. (which he somehow prophesized, a power he apparently has but has never been shown to use)

    Being behind warcraft biggest and most iconic antagonistic forces, sure as hell sounds like an über-villain to me.
    He absolutely was the Uber-villain, Blizzard even said so. Shadowlands is meant to be the climax of the first book (aka Warcraft as of now) which was said often enough by the devs in the 9.2 preview and after in the interviews. They had to write the entire Warcraft universe around him during Shadowlands, make him one way or another the mastermind behind every major event in the Warcraft universe and yet they still failed to give him personality, a good storyline or at least a lasting impression on the universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    alpha first tuesday of july
    Pretty sure pre-orders will drop as soon as Q3/22 is around the corner (which is in 9 days).
    Last edited by Nyel; 2022-06-21 at 04:54 PM.
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  19. #58499
    https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/pro...t-dragonflight is that new guys should we freak out idk tbh just saw on reddit, mayne im sharing a virus idk just deleted there tho.
    Last edited by rainhard; 2022-06-21 at 05:11 PM.

  20. #58500
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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