1. #58821
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    Obviously a "modern experience" doesn't include better graphics.
    Better graphics are included by default because of it being a recent expansion. For one that keeps doing comparison I didn't think that was something that had to be pointed out.

    You're not even reading my posts. I'm giving graphical comparisons that you refuse to acknowledge.
    Which have nothing to do with the graphical limitations of the engine or WoW nearing its maximum lifetime quality. I've read your posts. I don't need to line by line address everything to know that your comparisons don't mean what you think they mean.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  2. #58822
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Better graphics are included by default because of it being a recent expansion. For one that keeps doing comparison I didn't think that was something that had to be pointed out.
    Yeah, I wonder why they didn't keep the 2004 graphics until now, since the new player doesn't care about it. I mean, people never asked for player character models revamp or anything. It's really weird.

    Btw, talking about player models there's an interesting line from Chris Robinson about the "limitless" WoW engine, at 10:53 of the WOD Art panel.



    Anyway, I'm not going to derail this thread further, other people will see these comments and they can judge by themselves what they wanna believe in.
    Last edited by Luck4; 2022-06-07 at 07:00 AM.
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  3. #58823
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    Yeah, I wonder why they didn't keep the 2004 graphics until now, since the new player doesn't care about it. I mean, people never asked for player character models revamp or anything. It's really weird.
    Did I ever say that new players don't care about graphics? Or that people haven't asked for better graphics? Stop arguing in bad faith. Your own video proves that Blizzard has upgraded the engine over the years because the Pandaren model is no longer the limit to what they can do. Drac'Thyr wouldn't have been possible in the 2013 engine Chris Robinson is speaking about. Lmao.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #58824
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Did I ever say that new players don't care about graphics? Or that people haven't asked for better graphics? Stop arguing in bad faith. Your own video proves that Blizzard has upgraded the engine over the years because the Pandaren model is no longer the limit to what they can do. Drac'Thyr wouldn't have been possible in the 2013 engine Chris Robinson is speaking about.
    Dracthyr humanoid forms are literally just male elves and human females from 2015...
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  5. #58825
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    Dracthyr humanoid forms are literally just male elves and human females from 2015...
    I'm going to point out the obvious that I wasn't talking just about their humanoid forms. However the customization options were not possible in the 2013 engine you again point out how the engine has been updated over time to better handle graphics among other things. So it again reinforces that your claim that WoW has a limit to lifetime graphical upgrades is bogus.

    As long as Blizzard wants to update the engine they will continue to do so. Their ambition is the only limit.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #58826
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So it again reinforces that your claim that WoW has a limit to lifetime graphical upgrades is bogus.

    As long as Blizzard wants to update the engine they will continue to do so. Their ambition is the only limit.
    If they weren't reaching the engine limits constantly then we would have huge graphical improvements in every expansion, but that's not the case, and they can only improve it at a minor scale level, which is my point. We had a far more noticeable graphical improvement from 2004-2012 than from 2012-2022.

    Just compare the Vanilla characters models with the Pandaren and then the Pandaren with Dracthyr.
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  7. #58827
    Quote Originally Posted by Onslaught49 View Post
    hey guys we have any idea on when the next talent trees are expected? loved the frost dk and cant wait to see what they do with arms+fury havoc and ret next
    I guess two classes per week seems likely. So this week another round of previews. But that basically means Alpha would still be weeks (5) away, so... let's hope it'll be more than just that.

    Unless they unlock Alpha only with the classes they have already previewed, which would be weird, but possible.

    I still think Diablo Immortal will be their main focus for at least another week or two before there's happening "big" new stuff regarding WoW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    Pre-order Evoker would be my pipe dream, but I know I've said (Maybe in this thread as well) I can't see it happening with a playerbase so obsessed with the meta and blizzard trying so hard to push M+ seasons as an Esport, a new class into the mix, much less one thrown in as a hail mary with no public testing, would be too much of a shakeup and cause too much chaos.
    How would they even achieve this? We know absolutely nothing about Evoker. They are completely untested. If they would be pre-order stuff, pre-orders would be months away.
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  8. #58828
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    Okay, now you're posting in bad faith, my point isn't that we hadn't graphical updates since Mists of Pandaria, but the fact that they're less noticeable nowadays because WoW is reaching the graphical limit of its engine.

    For instance one of the new Dragonflight zones (10.0) looks pretty close to Gorgrond (6.0), two zones that are nearly ten years apart from each other.



    But let's compare Alterac Mountains, a place that had a texture resolution uplift in Cataclysm, with Kun-lai and Drustvar:



    2012 VS 2018 VS 2004 (2010 Remaster)

    There's a HUGE gap between Alterac compared with the other two.
    Warlords of Draenor is an anomaly. Its world was crazy beautiful for its time. You see this clearly when the following expansion it feels that except for Suramar itself there was a downgrade of visual quality and even a greater one for BfA.

    I think it has more to do with "perfecting a zone visually" vs "building more zones".

    Legion has some beautiful assets, beautiful fields, etc. But Draenor feels cleaner. The quality is still going up though and Bastion, Revendreth, Ardenweald and Zereth Mortis are testament to this.

    I don't know much about game engine, but I would be quite surprised that it becomes an issue now and that they didn't continuously invest on upgrading/improving it.

    Let's wait and see a bit more of the Dragonflight zones

  9. #58829
    If they were planning a revamp any time soon, wouldn't the rebuilt Brill feature more modern world objects?

  10. #58830
    People don't care about graphics. If they did, League of Legends wouldn't be the most popular PC game ever and it would have been dethroned by Hots, which, while a failure, had the best graphics for any MOBA I have ever seen.

    The original revamp happened because many zones did not have enough quests and people had to grind mobs to get levels (Felwood) or did not have any quests at all (Azshara), but Classic already exposed this problem of the old world for all to see.

    There is no longer an urgency for world revamp since the questing issues for many zones are fixed.

  11. #58831
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Warlords of Draenor is an anomaly. Its world was crazy beautiful for its time. You see this clearly when the following expansion it feels that except for Suramar itself there was a downgrade of visual quality and even a greater one for BfA.

    I think it has more to do with "perfecting a zone visually" vs "building more zones".

    Legion has some beautiful assets, beautiful fields, etc. But Draenor feels cleaner. The quality is still going up though and Bastion, Revendreth, Ardenweald and Zereth Mortis are testament to this.

    I don't know much about game engine, but I would be quite surprised that it becomes an issue now and that they didn't continuously invest on upgrading/improving it.

    Let's wait and see a bit more of the Dragonflight zones
    Its also that it just changed, legion and especially legion all had this weird glow on everything. Zandalar in a way looked like it was made from plastic. Its also just a differnt style.

  12. #58832
    Fluffy Parrot Marlamin's Avatar
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    I don't think we'll see a full revamp, but definitely a "refresh" of some of the assets to fit the modern stylized look of the game they started with around MoP/WoD. The new human buildings are prime examples of that, drop-in replacements of existing assets that refresh the look a bit. I'm expecting more of that, especially now they are remaking a lot of Northrend assets for the Dragon Isles that they can later use to refresh Northrend a little.

  13. #58833
    Scarab Lord The-Shan's Avatar
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    The talk of graphics makes me wonder if Blizzard will ever abandon handpainted textures and move on the PBR textures like Overwatch, and most other modern games. It'd feel really weird to have PBR gear on hand-painted textured player models.
    thinly veiled high elf thread

  14. #58834
    Pit Lord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    I don't think we'll see a full revamp, but definitely a "refresh" of some of the assets to fit the modern stylized look of the game they started with around MoP/WoD. The new human buildings are prime examples of that, drop-in replacements of existing assets that refresh the look a bit. I'm expecting more of that, especially now they are remaking a lot of Northrend assets for the Dragon Isles that they can later use to refresh Northrend a little.
    Honestly, they wouldn't really need that much more to make my happy. Maybe springle some worldquests and rare mobs that drop mounts into it and you have some fun evergreen content that can be used for any new story threads down the line.

  15. #58835
    Fluffy Parrot Marlamin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Honestly, they wouldn't really need that much more to make my happy. Maybe springle some worldquests and rare mobs that drop mounts into it and you have some fun evergreen content that can be used for any new story threads down the line.
    Yeah, same here. I don't think there's an inherent need to actually go through the entire questing/story again. There was that questline that never made it off PTR where we show some Shadowlands denizens around Azeroth. Just sprinkling in some stuff like that would be a neat way to at least make things feel like they're still connected and part of a living world ( ).

  16. #58836
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    We're losing Azeroth world-building, lore development behind most playable races, the usability of those places when it fits current expansion lore, all the stuff that happened in books and on ingame texts since Cataclysm, possible new battlegrounds, new incursions from old enemies, new NPC factions, new cities/villages, old enemy factions like Scarlet Crusade/Scourge/Twilight Hammer/Bloodsail Buccaneers/Grimtotem/ and even the Burning Legion.
    No, we're not. That's you projecting what you would do with it onto Blizzard. It's also complete nonsense from a development standpoint, as you'd merely be shifting those resources around, not generating more of them. More worldbuilding in obsolete content would just mean less of it in current. I don't see why Blizzard would ever make that mistake again.

    Your basic premise is already wrong.

  17. #58837
    Pit Lord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    We're losing Azeroth world-building, lore development behind most playable races, the usability of those places when it fits current expansion lore, all the stuff that happened in books and on ingame texts since Cataclysm, possible new battlegrounds, new incursions from old enemies, new NPC factions, new cities/villages, old enemy factions like Scarlet Crusade/Scourge/Twilight Hammer/Bloodsail Buccaneers/Grimtotem/ and even the Burning Legion.

    You fail to see how good would be to see smalls hubs of every playable race spread across Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, Vulpera caravans in the Barrens to Tanaris, Gadgetzan revamped into a neutral city, Nightborne settlement in Azshara, Mag'har Iron Horde machinery, Gilneas as a city, a new World Tree for Night Elves, Lordaeron city as the main hub for the Forsaken, Quel'thalas restored, Exodar rebuilt as a proper Draenei city, Draenei/Lightforged machinery, Alterac Mountain and its kingdom rebuilt as a new hostile zone, Plaguelands cleansed, new Zandalari harbors in Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms, Drust incursions in Duskwood, feral Worgen in Kalimdor, Pandaren farms in Westfall and the Barrens, Void Elf hubs replacing the old High Elf ones, Kul'tirans taking control of Southshore/Menethil Harbor, Highmountain settlements in Stonetalon Peak/Mount Hyjal, Gnomeragan restored with the help of Mechagnomes, Arakkoa/Ethereals in Azeroth.

    The list goes on, it's a shame that instead of a World Revamp we'll keep going to alien places such as Zerethi Mortis, while a vast and majestic world rots with the lack of creativity from Blizzard.

    Not to mention that everything I suggested above already has assets ready to use from recent expansions, unlike a new expansion where they need to make nearly everything from scratch.



    The problem will not start again anytime soon if they make an evergreen revamp, bringing the world back to Vanilla standards with local threats and lore about the zone instead of a major threat destroying everything. Not to mention the graphical revamp. WoW hasn't changed much graphically speaking since Mists of Pandaria (2012). Look at this comparison:







    A revamp now, graphically speaking, would last until the game's shutdown.



    This time around they need to make the revamped zones the end-game zones and only add new raids and dungeons on top of it, Cataclysm failed because Blizzard revamped thousands of quests, many old zones, and on top of that, five completely new zones with hundreds of new quests.
    Great post on your part, don't listen to naysayers. Honestly, they are setting up Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms to be relevant again. We even now have a reason for Alliance players to quest in a revamped Lordaeron - the Nightelven Darkfallen there, aswell as the Pallid Lady. <3

  18. #58838
    The Activision Blizzard executives has basically decided to just run the game in a managed decline and to be honest I can't deny it worked flawlessly in their favor since everyone is too cooked to recognize that.

    We will hopefully see better treatment under Microsoft, but it could be that they will just copy the executive and management style of Activision Blizzard realizing it will be the best way forward and Warcraft 3 Re-Reforged will be the better project to boost PR around Microsoft owning Blizzard being Double Plus Good.
    . . .

  19. #58839
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Great post on your part, don't listen to naysayers. Honestly, they are setting up Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms to be relevant again. We even now have a reason for Alliance players to quest in a revamped Lordaeron - the Nightelven Darkfallen there, aswell as the Pallid Lady. <3
    Where are they setting anything even remotely similar to that up? I think your imagination ran away with you.

    Darkfallen are dead in the water now that they turned out to be a customisation option for Elves, too.

  20. #58840
    Pit Lord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Where are they setting anything even remotely similar to that up? I think your imagination ran away with you.

    Darkfallen are dead in the water now that they turned out to be a customisation option for Elves, too.
    Lol. Just because they don't have a dollar-eating "allied race" tag doesn't mean they are less important than "allied races". Darkfallen, Wildhammer Dwarves, High Elves and Sand Trolls are a playable thing, you can't argue with that. And once we get a revamp they will also get more stories told, just like all other races.

    And they literally set it up in the Return to Lordaeron quests my friend. Maybe you need to play them again?

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