1. #58861
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13last View Post
    Man don't even argue with him, I gave up last night arguing with him, no point trying to convince someone why a lot of us are skeptical, of course we want the expansion to be amazing and I hope it is really I love wow always have, but I am cautious and worried until we have more info about it.
    I recently saw this quote, ""The most surprising thing is that you wouldn’t let anyone steal your property, but you consistently let people steal your time, which is infinitely more valuable." - Seneca". You are letting Blizzard steal your time when you no longer enjoy their product. You are insulting me simply because I pointed out that you are wasting that time. Of course I understand why people are skeptical but that still doesn't change that making negative things just to be negative is silly.

    Calling Dragonflight bad, no matter what, is silly. If you can't see that then you are blinder then you think I am being.
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  2. #58862
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13last View Post
    Man don't even argue with him, I gave up last night arguing with him, no point trying to convince someone why a lot of us are skeptical, of course we want the expansion to be amazing and I hope it is really, I love wow, always have, but I am cautious and worried until we have more info about it.
    There's cautious and then there is being overly paranoid for no reason.
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  3. #58863
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I recently saw this quote, ""The most surprising thing is that you wouldn’t let anyone steal your property, but you consistently let people steal your time, which is infinitely more valuable." - Seneca". You are letting Blizzard steal your time when you no longer enjoy their product. You are insulting me simply because I pointed out that you are wasting that time. Of course I understand why people are skeptical but that still doesn't change that making negative things just to be negative is silly.

    Calling Dragonflight bad, no matter what, is silly. If you can't see that then you are blinder then you think I am being.
    Dude I never insulted you, if anything you started swearing at me last night, but sorry if you took it that way. I personally don't waste my time, I have fun whenever I play wow, usually first month of an expansion and last patch when things are smooth. I never called it bad and I hope its not bad, I'm just hoping Blizzard delivers, that is all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    There's cautious and then there is being overly paranoid for no reason.
    I don't think its paranoia for someone to want their favorite game to do well, it has not been doing well lately and If you can't understand why people are worried then fair but I see a reason why people are worried.(at least they are watching us argue about it and and I hope they choose whatever is best for their expac whether its delaying it or releasing it this year)

  4. #58864
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    No because you clearly have not grasped the difference between content and a feature. I don't know how a new class is content for players of the other twelve classes, but whatever.

    Uhm, they already said what to expect. New dungeons, new raids and a new continent. Heck, that's one of the most prominent "features" on the Dragonflight announcement patch. Not that it's the most trivial and basic stuff for an expansion to contain. Everything else is listed under the expansion features section. You don't need to wait for Alpha or Beta to point that out when it's laid out and written everywhere.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I have no idea what your post is about as half of what you said was already said by me and the other half has nothing to do with what I was trying to say.

    Dragonflight offers the same range of content as WoD. That was my statement. Raids, dungeons and open world zones. That's the content of WoD and that's the content of Dragonflight. Nothing more was said.

    I agree that the recent new types of content were usually disliked, but does that mean to completely cut it and not even try to come up with a compensation for that loss? Because Blizzard is doing exactly that. They're "pruning", but this time expansion features. I'm just saying it will backfire a lot because people will get bored by this expansion faster than ever before.
    And what did LK bring more than wod ? Glyphs ? Those were glorified spell upgrade.
    DK but you said it's not content.

    The problem with WoD is that you only had raids and that's it and you spent your whole life in the garrison.

    In DF you'll have raids, m+, world quests + dailies, world exploration + content and prolly other stuff.

    i dunno what else you want lol.
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  5. #58865
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13last View Post
    Dude I never insulted you, if anything you started swearing at me last night, but sorry if you took it that way.
    Swearing? It is amusing how you make arguments up but imply I'm the unreasonable one. Or that you aren't trying to be insulting when you demean and vilify. If you don't like the product now, and don't like the product they will produce, then you are wasting your time. Because you are playing something you don't enjoy. Yesterday you stated I'm the reason why Blizzard is the way it is. That implies you don't like the way they currently are and the way they currently develop.

    There is also no reason to lie about you never calling Dragonflight bad. That is exactly what you implied. What does not taking the time to refine experience mean if not that it will be bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by 13last View Post
    It sets a precedent, and I personally was hoping they would take the time they need to refine the experience as I don't think 2 bad expacs in a row are a good idea.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-06-22 at 11:57 PM.
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  6. #58866
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Why would anyone have to be biased? This is what I was talking about. You want it to be bad. You think everyone needs to have the same bias as you and think that they game has to be bad because of the reasons you list. Yet you will argue that you don't actually want it to be bad despite already having your mind made up. You even say it is bad because we don't know details about it.

    Usually people that don't want something to be bad wait until they can get informed before making a decision about what that something will be. Lol.
    HOW ARE YOU BEING SO THICK-HEADED?! I DO NOT WANT OTHER PEOPLE TO BE JUST LIKE ME! I am perfectly happy if people are optimistic! I think it's ignorant of them because of Blizzard's track record, but I'm not going to shit on them and tell them they're morons for getting hyped at what could be a fun experience. And again, you keep ignoring that we've seen very little of this expansion, WHICH IS WORRYING. As this gentle-Pokemon said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Snorlax View Post
    Never forget that Scaleface said it would be out in November 2022 and they were right about everything else. That means we have 5 months to go with no info past the announcement, no alpha, no insights. They're trying to hide how sparse this "expansion" is gonna end up being.
    Why is there so little information we've been given compared to other announcements?

    Whatever, this other person said it best...

    Quote Originally Posted by 13last View Post
    Man don't even argue with him, I gave up last night arguing with him, no point trying to convince someone why a lot of us are skeptical, of course we want the expansion to be amazing and I hope it is really, I love wow, always have, but I am cautious and worried until we have more info about it.
    I'm skeptical, cautious, and worried, but want the game to be great.

  7. #58867
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Swearing? It is amusing how you make arguments up but imply I'm the unreasonable one. If you don't like the product now, and don't like the product they will produce, then you are wasting your time. Because you are playing something you don't enjoy. Yesterday you stated I'm the reason why Blizzard is the way it is. That implies you don't like the way they currently are and the way they currently develop.

    There is also no reason to lie about you never calling Dragonflight bad. That is exactly what you implied. What does not taking the time to refine experience mean if not that it will be bad?
    Yes I called SL bad, not DF, I said it would be a bad idea to do 2 bad ones, like can you even read, lol I'm gonna stop replying to you, yes you giving blizzard money for a half finished product is a bad precedent.

  8. #58868
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    I think it's ignorant of them because of Blizzard's track record, but I'm not going to shit on them and tell them they're morons for getting hyped at what could be a fun experience.
    So people are ignorant and morons for not thinking like you but at the same time you want them to be morons? Lmao. It is strange the mental gymnastics you keep jumping through just to ignore the bias you readily acknowledged you have. All you keep looking for is a failed product.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 13last View Post
    Yes I called SL bad, not DF, I said it would be a bad idea to do 2 bad ones, like can you even read, lol I'm gonna stop replying to you, yes you giving blizzard money for a half finished product is a bad precedent.
    Right. You implied Dragonflight will be the second bad one. Shadowlands wasn't a half finished product. Aren't you also giving Blizzard money for a half finished product? Since you implied you still play because you still enjoy WoW. So aren't you again letting Blizzard steal your time for a half finished product and one you've already thought was bad?

    Also if they are not taking the time to refine Dragonflight then you are calling it bad, right?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #58869
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So people are ignorant and morons for not thinking like you but at the same time you want them to be morons? Lmao. It is strange the mental gymnastics you keep jumping through just to ignore the bias you readily acknowledged you have. All you keep looking for is a failed product.
    You're just straight ignoring what I'm saying at this point. Ignorance =/= stupidity. I said they're not morons. I'm going to stop responding to you now, have a nice day.

  10. #58870
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    You're just straight ignoring what I'm saying at this point. Ignorance =/= stupidity. I said they're not morons. I'm going to stop responding to you now, have a nice day.
    So people that choose to be ignorant aren't also stupid? Even then you are still implying they are the bad ones. You are acting as if you alone are the enlightened one and know the truth about WoW. You don't know anything about the future expansion yet decide to already hate it. Legion was not bad because WoD so even your prediction isn't based on any fact.

    Do you even remember what comments you made that started this before you tried to excuse your unjustified hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Yeah, this is worse. It just means the game is going to be an abysmal dumpster fire lacking in content. Those of us guessing 2023 were assuming they would, you know, try to avoid Shadowlands' "two major patch" situation and actually put proper time and effort into it. I guess you're right, it was delusional of us to think they had learned their lesson.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-06-23 at 12:15 AM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #58871
    I wonder if Blizzard decided to go with a very short Beta only to add controversial stuff at the last moment such as Borrowed Power, massive chores such as Stygia, or heavy RNG systems such as Azerite Gear or Legiondaries.

    I mean, you can't be blamed for not hearing feedback if you aren't getting any.

  12. #58872
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Why is there so little information we've been given compared to other announcements?
    Because it wasn't announced at Blizzcon and they didn't feel like doing multiple hour long videos doing into the nitty gritty details when Alpha was gonna come out in a couple months anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snorlax View Post
    I really doubt that's the case. There's just nothing to show off that would need a long testing phase. Dragonflight is going to be the most content bare expansion in a decade. Don't need to test what doesn't exist.
    What content do you feel is missing compared to previous expansions? The PvE slot for thorghast/islands/warfronts?
    Last edited by Hitei; 2022-06-23 at 02:51 AM.

  13. #58873
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So people that choose to be ignorant aren't also stupid? Even then you are still implying they are the bad ones. You are acting as if you alone are the enlightened one and know the truth about WoW. You don't know anything about the future expansion yet decide to already hate it. Legion was not bad because WoD so even your prediction isn't based on any fact.

    Do you even remember what comments you made that started this before you tried to excuse your unjustified hate?
    I admire your grit, but you're arguing with a mud fence. Haters gonna hate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Because it wasn't announced at Blizzcon and they didn't feel like doing multiple hour long videos doing into the nitty gritty details when Alpha was gonna come out in a couple months anyway.


    What content do you feel is missing compared to previous expansions? The PvE slot for thorghast/islands/warfronts?
    And you too are fighting the good fight but with a brick wall and some other kind of un-moveable something.

  14. #58874
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    What content do you feel is missing compared to previous expansions? The PvE slot for thorghast/islands/warfronts?
    The mission table is confirmed out so no follower or mini-game stuff.
    Garrison, Order Hall, and Covenant are gone as far as we know. If something is in it might be small like the BfA boat that didn't really offer to much content.
    The PvE slot as you stated is gone.

    It might not seem like a lot but those things did add a large amount of content to the game. It might not be a bad thing and it remains to be seen how much Dragonriding and the Renown factions fill in the content gap. I'm torn on what I'd prefer thought I know I might play an alt more but also don't mind playing only one character and having stuff/goals to always work towards.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  15. #58875
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    And yet Shadowlands came after BfA.
    All that shows is that there is no causal connection and you're just flailing around.

  16. #58876
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    I wonder if Blizzard decided to go with a very short Beta only to add controversial stuff at the last moment such as Borrowed Power, massive chores such as Stygia, or heavy RNG systems such as Azerite Gear or Legiondaries.

    I mean, you can't be blamed for not hearing feedback if you aren't getting any.
    Yeeeee. They will add grind and borrowed powers at last min after explicitly saying they wont do that. And then they will open a gear shop.
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  17. #58877
    Quote Originally Posted by Luck4 View Post
    I wonder if Blizzard decided to go with a very short Beta only to add controversial stuff at the last moment such as Borrowed Power, massive chores such as Stygia, or heavy RNG systems such as Azerite Gear or Legiondaries.

    I mean, you can't be blamed for not hearing feedback if you aren't getting any.
    Yeah they are going to add a bunch of stuff that will not get tested at the last minute. I don't think you understand how long it takes to get that stuff prioduced and working.

  18. #58878
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    Dataminable 10.0 build would be nice cherry on top for this week. But that's rather thing for next week... I hope.

    Anyway, we can judge if 2022 release is suits pressure for Christmas or devs really being "far along" like Ion said only after few Alpha builds. Last 3 PTR cycles were pretty smooth after all, Zereth Mortis was almost finished since December.

    Of course it's not like everything would be available first day, they often want feedback focused on specific things, for sure zones will be released one by one. But in the past we often had weeks of downtime between major builds, it's something they can't really afford now.

    For sure it doesn't make sense to be some marketing stunt to cash in now and delay it later as some people suggest. Remember how Blizzard approach delays from pre-order date, they put special webstite for instant automatic refund, many people are pissed (no wonder, some people must schedule their free time weeks/month ahead), for sure it hurts Blizzard. Shadowlands could be even bigger financial success without delay.

  19. #58879
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    What content do you feel is missing compared to previous expansions? The PvE slot for thorghast/islands/warfronts?
    I guess some form of repeatable PvE content that can be done solo/small group with matchmaking. It can be replaced of course with meaningful activities in the actual world instead of instanced content. I think that is the plan or at least that's what Blizzard leads one to believe. Imo what replaces them both for progression and for cosmetic collection is probably crafting.

  20. #58880
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The mission table is confirmed out so no follower or mini-game stuff.
    Garrison, Order Hall, and Covenant are gone as far as we know. If something is in it might be small like the BfA boat that didn't really offer to much content.
    The PvE slot as you stated is gone.

    It might not seem like a lot but those things did add a large amount of content to the game. It might not be a bad thing and it remains to be seen how much Dragonriding and the Renown factions fill in the content gap. I'm torn on what I'd prefer thought I know I might play an alt more but also don't mind playing only one character and having stuff/goals to always work towards.
    What specifically you are considering 'content' from the Garrison? The profession mat farm? The hunting down building upgrades and stuff? The mounts?

    As you've pointed out, "Order Hall and Covenant" content-wise are still in, just not named that. Renown is renown and there are quest lines attached to the Dragonflight version of renown based on you working deeper into the faction. (read: campaigns).

    So what we really have missing is I guess:
    -Mission Tables
    -Garrison stuff
    -A PvE slot

    I would argue that Dragonriding covers a huge chunk of the first two, not in being the same thing but in amount of content:

    It's not the mission table follower mini-game, sure. But the mechanical flying part of it has been described as minigame-esque; it involves trying to get to problem solve to get up to certain places and stuff. We also know there's some sort of racing tournament thing. They've also described their zone exploration and design approach as being more like Zereth Mortis, with stuff to find and puzzles and things, so that is also a huge bump in side mini-game style content.

    The dragons (putting aside the whole perk side) offer the mounts of a Garrison, and the going around hunting down unlocks aspect in the form of acquiring visual customizations, as they come from all sorts of places and activities. The farming aspect of Garrisons is missing, but we also now have a whole new progressive aspect to professions with their own gear and stats, so getting profession mats itself has a built in content system that is probably more expansive than the garrison plot versions ever were.

    There's no specific one system in that PvE slot right now, but they've said that instead there's just more content in the open to find and do, hunting giant stuff with centuar, and the racing tournaments being examples given.

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