Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[MightyWarrior]

Alpha servers are up! HYPE

[Alexjimithing]

alpha servers are up! Hype

lets fucking go

E: LIAR

[Ersula]

Alpha servers are up! HYPE

Why do you lie to us?

[unbrained]

don´t lie to us!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Alpha servers are up! HYPE

You are not funny.

[MightyWarrior]

Shame on you liar

[Aucald]

Encrypted alpha versions of the 10.0 client have actually been up on the WoW Dev branch since April. 10.0 build 43342 was up on 4/22/22, build 44167 on 6/14/22, and build 44275 just two days ago. Nothing is known of these clients aside from what's been shown in Blizzard's own gameplay and cinematic releases, though. An actual playable alpha or beta version will probably appear in a month or so.

[Luck4]

I think it's insane that so many people truly believe that Dragonflight doesn't need to be tested much.

I mean, they're revamping the talent system into a tree, which is a lot more complex and can change the classes and the overall gameplay dramatically. The talent tree can end up being more challenging to balance than any borrowed power we had previously.

The new crafting system can also make or break the game if it's not tested and implemented correctly, there's a reason why crafting in WoW was irrelevant for so many years.

Also, let's not forget the new reputation system, which while they said is based on renown, players have no clue of how exactly it's gonna work with reputations.

And there are also the bugs, yeah, did you guys forget how bad the Battle for Azeroth launch was due to bugs not fixed in beta?
The "Beta for Azeroth" meme happened for a reason, and this was before all the RNG bloat, AP, Azerite Gear, Essences, Corruption, and the endless grind problems.

I mean, come on guys, this is not pessimism, it's just awareness of what happened in the last four years...

[rhorle]

I think it's insane that so many people truly believe that Dragonflight doesn't need to be tested much.

Can you answer why specific content needs 6+ months of testing in order to be good? And why that testing can't occur faster? Look at patch 9.2.5. It was in testing for way longer then there was stuff for people to test. If Blizzard releases the content to be tested then the actual testing can happen fairly quickly. If they are testing a lot of the questing/leveling content in-house then there isn't much that players are required to test. Balance and stress tests are the primary factor.

All a quick alpha/beta means is that there isn't much time for Blizzard to come up with a plan B. For example when they redid Jade Forest late in Beta.

[Ferlion]

Can you answer why specific content needs 6+ months of testing in order to be good? And why that testing can't occur faster? Look at patch 9.2.5. It was in testing for way longer then there was stuff for people to test. If Blizzard releases the content to be tested then the actual testing can happen fairly quickly. If they are testing a lot of the questing/leveling content in-house then there isn't much that players are required to test. Balance and stress tests are the primarly factor.

All a quick alpha/beta means is that there isn't much time for Blizzard to come up with a plan B. For example when they redid Jade Forest late in Beta.

Also, just from a purely balance stand point, even having to redo all the talents is less balance and testing work than introducing legendary items, then conduits, then a third system, etc.

It's so easy for things to spiral out of control when you have three different external things that interact with a specific ability. It multiples the work by a whole bunch.

Talent trees are not the big ask people are treating it as.

[UndedoKoleda]

Can you answer why specific content needs 6+ months of testing in order to be good? And why that testing can't occur faster? Look at patch 9.2.5. It was in testing for way longer then there was stuff for people to test. If Blizzard releases the content to be tested then the actual testing can happen fairly quickly. If they are testing a lot of the questing/leveling content in-house then there isn't much that players are required to test. Balance and stress tests are the primarly factor.

All a quick alpha/beta means is that there isn't much time for Blizzard to come up with a plan B. For example when they redid Jade Forest late in Beta.

Testing can occur faster, no doubt. Everything(or close to everything) can probably be tested in a month or so, however the question is- can Blizzard fix every reported bug and handle all the feedback on balance and other gameplay elements, in the said month?

[Makabreska]

Also, just from a purely balance stand point, even having to redo all the talents is less balance and testing work than introducing legendary items, then conduits, then a third system, etc.

It's so easy for things to spiral out of control when you have three different external things that interact with a specific ability. It multiples the work by a whole bunch.

Talent trees are not the big ask people are treating it as.

The thing is, new talents combine majority of those external systems into one and make them interact directly. So I don't think it is easier.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The thing is, new talents combine majority of those external systems into one and make them interact directly. So I don't think it is easier.

Well if there's a lot of messing with them yeah its not easy but fitting them into the massive puzzle that is WoW is probably easier then...doing a talent revamp along with a system that interacts with them.

[rhorle]

The thing is, new talents combine majority of those external systems into one. So I don't think it is easier.

Sure but most of the talent trees are made up of existing things. So moving it from UI A to UI B isn't much of a change. They do need to test the balance of various paths or at least the "main" ones they envision a class to take. Since they have stated that not every path will be viable and that a lot of points are spent in "required" paths/talents.

Also can't they test most talent balance with simulations? So when players are testing it is basically just double checking the in-house simcraft results and the rotations/playstyle in action.

[Luck4]

Can you answer why specific content needs 6+ months of testing in order to be good? And why that testing can't occur faster?

First, I think six months is a good beta time frame, but not even alpha started yet, and if we take into account the holiday season and the pre-expansion event, we're talking five-ish months until the expansion release. Beta could be just three months, or four months if we're lucky,

And considering Blizzard's track record of previous expansions, any player power system needs to be deeply tested, otherwise, some classes can become utterly useless while others could become extremely broken.

Look at patch 9.2.5. It was in testing for way longer then there was stuff for people to test. If Blizzard releases the content to be tested then the actual testing can happen fairly quickly.

This I can agree with, but again we've no proof that this beta will be any different than the previous ones. I mean, if they're so far ahead why are they taking so long to show us the remaining talent trees?

If they are testing a lot of the questing/leveling content in-house then there isn't much that players are required to test. Balance and stress tests are the primary factor.

Yeah, I agree that questing and leveling can be tested in-house, but they never did this before, and we don't know if they're going to do this now, so I still think it's worrisome.

[rhorle]

First, I think six months is a good beta time frame, but not even alpha started yet

But why? What content specifically requires a long period of testing? Most Alpha and Beta tests don't test things that entire period. The testing happens in batches around when Blizzard releases content. There is no reason to assume a shorter testing phase will be bad. Can it be bad? Sure. So can a longer beta phase as people have always been unhappy about things and MoP for example launched with the awful gyrocopter bottleneck so things don't always get caught.

Also them not releasing info doesn't mean it is not ready to be tested. It just means they don't want to release the info for whatever reason. Which happens for every game and every testing cycle. Things are released when ever they feel like it and not the moment it exists.

[klaps_05]

Ppl focused on DF a lot, but how is season 4 gonna work for guilds on lower schedule like 4/3 days? Having a progression week once in 3 weeks? Or will all guilds just not bother with season 4?

[Makabreska]

Ppl focused on DF a lot, but how is season 4 gonna work for guilds on lower schedule like 4/3 days? Having a progression week once in 3 weeks? Or will all guilds just not bother with season 4?

This is purely a 4fun season. No CE, no pressure. Would not be surprised if they'd make raids much easier so peeps can have fun.

[Nyel]

How is what's announced with DF any lesser than lets say Classic, TBC or Wotlk?

It's not, but why would we compare a 2022 expansion to one from 2007 or 2008? Players have changed and so has the game. In that regard the design has changed as well. Back to the roots for basic systems makes a lot of sense, because it's less wasted work. Problematic is the lack of ambition Blizzard is showing in Dragonflight by pruning stuff and removing it completely instead of finding ways to implement it better. What they do in Dragonflight looks good, in parts great. But it won't be enough. That's the problem. Players have been spoilt in the last three expansions by rewards at max level that were not just gear or cosmetics. Dragonflight reduces the entire max level experience to a bare minimum while making better gear the only stuff that matters - I thought we moved past that point, but I might be wrong.

If they do not offer worthwile rewards next to gear, stuff players can farm or grind to change their gameplay, their experience or whatever, people will just stop playing. You cannot give us too much stuff (good or bad) to do and then reduce it to 0 and expect players to love it. This is like their approach of dailies from MoP to WoD. It backfired. And this will backfire as well. Instead of catering to the extremes (Shadowlands being the most overloaded expansion when it comes to system to Dragonflight shaping up the be the most basic expansion when it comes to systems) they should find a balance. But now, it's either do or die, nothing in between. This hurt them so many times already, I don't understand why they are making this mistake again.

- - - Updated - - -

It's no about that. It needs testing, but it's also 'safe' and not controversial.

Pretty much this. Talent trees won't cause any controversy by their inherent design. There's nothing that could go wrong here and that's why the small amount of testing that's needed for this can be achieved fast and easily. And if not in alpha/beta, there's enough time to adjust talents when DF is live. It's such a basic concept, you don't break anything like Blizzard could with Covenants.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it's insane that so many people truly believe that Dragonflight doesn't need to be tested much.

I mean, they're revamping the talent system into a tree, which is a lot more complex and can change the classes and the overall gameplay dramatically. The talent tree can end up being more challenging to balance than any borrowed power we had previously.

No it can't, just look at the trees. Most talents already exist. The few ones they brought back or the even fewer ones that are new - based on what we saw with Druid and DK - are so negligible that they cannot break anything. And even if, Blizzard still can make paths end or make them mutually exclusive or whatever.

It's so easy to fix a talent tree by just shifting talents around. You chose the path with two hefty cooldowns? That's too OP? Easy, give them the same treatment as usable trinkets or whatever. It's easy to prevent such situations and it's even easier to fix them alone by the fact that there are barely any dependencies.

If there are talents too strong to be combined, make them the bottom choices of each tree that restrict themselves by not being able to unlock both of them. Make them a choose A or B talent like they already did. So many ways of preventing problematic situations.

[Ferlion]

The thing is, new talents combine majority of those external systems into one and make them interact directly. So I don't think it is easier.

Even if we set aside most of these talents being pre-existing things...

The sheer fact that external systems are now internal removes a lot of that issues and fear. Because it's all one system.

You don't have to worry about some random missed bracket or decimal point that has a piece of equipment interacting with this completely different system that causes a reduction or amplification in effectiveness. You don't have to worry about a piece of gear increasing something by 10% because it's looking at the entire talent systems scaling that says it also increases an abilities effectiveness by 100% and turning it into a 1000% increase because someone missed an interaction somewhere.

The more systems and pieces of something you have, the more points of interaction you have, the more chances of a bad interaction you have.