Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Santandame]

To be perfectly honest. Considering the sheer amount of side content that WoD had, at least in it's first patch I think comparing Dragonflight to WoD is a bit misguided in both ways.

The flaws of Warlords were that the expansion didn't really have much content from patches that kept people playing. Not a bunch of raids, the dungeon cycle was kind of dull without Mythic+.

But the strengths of it were that there were a tonne of side content. Treasures, unique zones, each faction had lots of rewards. A bunch of the rewards were behind daily content I.E the stables.

If Dragonflight factions have the same level of rewards and diversity as Warlords, this is absolutely a victory for the expansion.
If Dragonflights Dragonriding and Dragonriding related mini-games and quests (We have racing and some sort of great beast hunting mentioned in interviews so far) lead to varied rewards and mounts, this is a great thing.

If the expansion only gives us crap raids, and never expands on anything.. doesn't give us more zones to go to, and doesn't add anything new throughout the expansion, etc.

In short, it's too early to say it feels like WoD good or bad.

That being said. A release of stuff like Korthia or like Zereth Mortis is.. Absolutely new content, even when it is divorced from content, and people bitching that it isn't content is something that is mostly just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Well, put it this way, of the modern expansions(Legion - Dragonflight), Dragonflight is easily the most content lite.

Dragonflight is offering us no big expansion features aside from Dragon Riding. Much like WoD only offered us Garrisons in ways of an expansion feature. Garrisons still offered us plenty of content, regardless of whether the content was perceived to be good. I feel like Dragon Riding will be much the same way in that regard.

The only leg up DF currently has over WoD is DF will have Mythic+, which WoD didn't. So whilst yes, that is technically more than WoD, it's still not a great deal amount.

I can't speak for world content because whilst WoD's was indeed poor, we don't know what world content Dragonflight has to offer outside of Dragon Riding and dailies yet. I can only assume, that with nothing being announced, that's what we'll be getting outside of the obvious and already implemented treasures and rares that WoD had too.

Dragonflight is much closer to being a WoD than a Legion, BfA or SL in terms of content.

[Chickat]

I don't know, delaying the second expansion in a row isn't showing some good project planning oder scheduling skills. I just think Dragonflight itself will be so reduced that they - more or less - can pull off a release this year without major problems. If that's what the game needs is another question though.

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Anything that continues your progression after hitting max level is a good idea. It doesn't have to be what I suggested, but they must give us something. Putting the last talent point you'll earn at max level in your talent tree and then two years of nothing would be a massive problem.

I doubt they will do extra talent points, but I do think the relic slots from legion weapons is a good idea. Even if its not a currency grind its still something. I imagine it like the essence list for the heart of azeroth. You learn the relics and through doing content while those relics are socketed you gain xp with them. Ranking them up in power. You can socket 3 of them into a tree. There are single target ones, aoe ones, healing ones, and utility ones.

[Makorus]

Calling Dragonflight the most content lite expansion when we literally know nothing about the expansion is hilarious.

[Ferlion]

Well, put it this way, of the modern expansions(Legion - Dragonflight), Dragonflight is easily the most content lite.

Dragonflight is offering us no big expansion features aside from Dragon Riding. Much like WoD only offered us Garrisons in ways of an expansion feature. Garrisons still offered us plenty of content, regardless of whether the content was perceived to be good. I feel like Dragon Riding will be much the same way in that regard.

The only leg up DF currently has over WoD is DF will have Mythic+, which WoD didn't. So whilst yes, that is technically more than WoD, it's still not a great deal amount.

I can't speak for world content because whilst WoD's was indeed poor, we don't know what world content Dragonflight has to offer outside of Dragon Riding and dailies yet. I can only assume, that with nothing being announced, that's what we'll be getting outside of the obvious and already implemented treasures and rares that WoD had too.

Dragonflight is much closer to being a WoD than a Legion, BfA or SL in terms of content.

Well. We do know something.

That due to the large zones, the zones will be broken up with gear levels and I think in one interview they compared DF's Torghast equivalent to these open world zones. If I recall. I might have to try and dig up that interview

[Santandame]

Calling Dragonflight the most content lite expansion when we literally know nothing about the expansion is hilarious.

My friend do you think Blizzard were holding back on announced content just to give us a "SURPRISE!!" moment when alpha is released? Has that EVER happened before?

The announced content, is the content we are getting outside of patch content. You thinking we may get some surprises in alpha or beta is hilarious. Like, what other big content are you expecting them to announce before launch?

Currently, in terms of announced content, then yes, Dragonflight is very much near the bottom of the pile in terms of content.

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Well. We do know something.

That due to the large zones, the zones will be broken up with gear levels and I think in one interview they compared DF's Torghast equivalent to these open world zones. If I recall. I might have to try and dig up that interview

Genuinely, source? As the only thing I've seen mentioned in regards to that is parts of the zones will be closed off until max level. Like parts of the SL zones.

The Torghast comment is interesting though.

[boyzma]

My friend do you think Blizzard were holding back on announced content just to give us a "SURPRISE!!" moment when alpha is released? Has that EVER happened before?

The announced content, is the content we are getting outside of patch content. You thinking we may get some surprises in alpha or beta is hilarious. Like, what other big content are you expecting them to announce before launch?

Currently, in terms of announced content, then yes, Dragonflight is very much near the bottom of the pile in terms of content.

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Genuinely, source? As the only thing I've seen mentioned in regards to that is parts of the zones will be closed off until max level. Like parts of the SL zones.

The Torghast comment is interesting though.

Maybe you should be the one coming up with the source for the crap you're spewing. You seem very intent on making people go with your way of thinking that DF not only sucks.....because, but that it is also has the litest content.

[Revamp Man]

Maybe you should be the one coming up with the source for the crap you're spewing. You seem very intent on making people go with your way of thinking that DF not only sucks.....because, but that it is also has the litest content.

I mean they have a point in that there won't be an island expedition or torghast equivalent at launch but in terms of actual content they might not need that at launch and may add it in a patch

As for your claim of zones being separated by gear level I'm fairly certain that never happened but I might be wrong

[boyzma]

I mean they have a point in that there won't be an island expedition or torghast equivalent at launch but in terms of actual content they might not need that at launch and may add it in a patch

As for your claim of zones being separated by gear level I'm fairly certain that never happened but I might be wrong

I never said anything about zones and gear level. Probably the poster I replied to said that. Did a check....it was Ferlion who claimed that.

[Palapop]

The problem with gear progression is that it's boring.

Artifacts were cool because what you got was exciting, even when it was tiny nodes.

Azerite Armour was cool because most of them had cool effects.

Corruption was cool because of that.

Conduits were interesting as well because quite a few really changed how the spec plays.

People who were bitching about "borrowed power" will be in for a rude awakening.

Quite rude to say that someone is "bitching" about something.

I saw nothing interesting in grinding millions and millions of artifact power.

Or countless hours of grinding RNG legendary.

Or countless hours of grinding azerite gear.

Doing content I dont like to get bis azerite essence.

Grind the HELL out of Horrific visions to get corruption I need.

Grinding the content I dont like just to get the conduit/legendary thats bis for me....

Yep... all these are CHORES. I dont want CHORES in an GAME. I want to have FUN in it.


Having extra content =/= having good content.

QUALITY >>>>>>>>>>>> quantity.

[Ferlion]

My friend do you think Blizzard were holding back on announced content just to give us a "SURPRISE!!" moment when alpha is released? Has that EVER happened before?

The announced content, is the content we are getting outside of patch content. You thinking we may get some surprises in alpha or beta is hilarious. Like, what other big content are you expecting them to announce before launch?

Currently, in terms of announced content, then yes, Dragonflight is very much near the bottom of the pile in terms of content.

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Genuinely, source? As the only thing I've seen mentioned in regards to that is parts of the zones will be closed off until max level. Like parts of the SL zones.

The Torghast comment is interesting though.

I'm still looking for the Torghast one, because there were a bunch of small scale interviews that all said mostly the same thing with one major per interview variation.

I did find this

Q: Final thoughts on World of Warcraft: Dragonflight?

Feasel: I can’t wait for players to see what we are doing to the outdoor sandbox, which may be because I was one of the designers associated with working on it back in Legion. For the first time in World of Warcraft history, we have a specific team dedicated to working on awesome overworld sandbox activities–our content team. They have their own leadership group, and been staffing up for the past number of years, and now we have a whole group to make cool sandbox things, whether that is how you hunt rare spawns or minigames associated with climbing walls, they ensure we will have a whole bunch of depth to those systems. It will be an awesome chance for us to revamp the outdoor sandbox world in a way we haven’t done since Legion.

Something else I'll post since there were other interviews and comments here talking about the talent trees.

Such as for example, we could conceivably have some additional talent points that could be earned post max level within the expansion, that's not something we're going to do right at launch but in later patches, it certainly is an option that's on the table for additional progression and customization that isn't borrowed power but is just yours and your character's powers.

More talent slots/points might be coming in later patches

[Revamp Man]

I never said anything about zones and gear level. Probably the poster I replied to said that. Did a check....it was Ferlion who claimed that.

my bad
i blame lack of sleep

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I'm still looking for the Torghast one, because there were a bunch of small scale interviews that all said mostly the same thing with one major per interview variation.

I did find this

Q: Final thoughts on World of Warcraft: Dragonflight?



Something else I'll post since there were other interviews and comments here talking about the talent trees.



More talent slots/points might be coming in later patches

im definitely interested in the torghast one but all this interview says is that we will get more stuff like ZM

idk how to feel about the talent points thing though...could be super fun or could be just an annoying unlock.

fun: you permanently gain a couple points you can put in anywhere on the tree OR you gain a specific talent unlock with no requirement for previous talents (example being innervate for resto druids)

not fun: you unlock X amount of talent points per season with gating

[Ferlion]

my bad
i blame lack of sleep

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im definitely interested in the torghast one but all this interview says is that we will get more stuff like ZM

idk how to feel about the talent points thing though...could be super fun or could be just an annoying unlock.

fun: you permanently gain a couple points you can put in anywhere on the tree OR you gain a specific talent unlock with no requirement for previous talents (example being innervate for resto druids)

not fun: you unlock X amount of talent points per season with gating

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpnR...8F%AC%EC%85%98

12 minutes in

1-3 group content with rewards and reasons to want to do them, flexibly size small group content, but it's not instanced akin to Torghast or Islands.

[Atriel]

I was just thinking today that the Legion Artifact Weapons were the best and I really wish they were re-introducing that sort of system for Dragonflight instead of the Dragonriding system.

Going around collecting weapon appearances has been great. I just don't really care about a mount (not to mention Druids don't even need them) as much.

[Polybius]

I was just thinking today that the Legion Artifact Weapons were the best and I really wish they were re-introducing that sort of system for Dragonflight instead of the Dragonriding system.

Going around collecting weapon appearances has been great. I just don't really care about a mount (not to mention Druids don't even need them) as much.

It works well for a class, not so much in armor-type appearances like covenants. There's less replay (alts) and little reward (armor sets took more effort to create than weapons, but Legion sacrificed green/blue quality weapon drops).

We're getting a reward track similar to Covenants, we haven't heard any more from the devs.

[Revamp Man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpnR...8F%AC%EC%85%98

12 minutes in

1-3 group content with rewards and reasons to want to do them, flexibly size small group content, but it's not instanced akin to Torghast or Islands.

that is definitely interesting
from the sounds of it they are describing the elite world quest content but maybe with a bonus loot buff?

[Nymrohd]

not fun: you unlock X amount of talent points per season with gating

I also suggested this earlier (because it's really the most obvious thing). I am not sure how it could be gained. Imo the ideal thing would be to just let people get the talent points as long as they have completed some very basic content.
The important thing is that if you give people a few additional talent points for free during the xpac it's not borrowed power because in the next xpac you can just have them NOT gain talent points for the first few levels. E.g. if we get 5 more talent points during Dragonflight that will be very transformative. If the next xpac increases cap to 80 and gives us a total of 71 talent points, older players will only get points from 76-80 which again will be enough to change their gameplay and new players will not have to play DF since they just get those 5 points from leveling. It is an elegant solution.

How they are gained and how alt-friendly that is will be important. Looking at how the talent trees are now I can say that every new talent point will be meaningful since at that point in your progression you have opened up the strongest talents in your trees so every point can be spend in something powerful.

[Santandame]

Maybe you should be the one coming up with the source for the crap you're spewing. You seem very intent on making people go with your way of thinking that DF not only sucks.....because, but that it is also has the litest content.

No? I'm just mentioning facts, as in literally what we are being presented. I've not said that what we'll be getting is going to suck. I'm saying that what we're getting is not a lot.

Source? Go watch the fucking expansion announcement lol.

So many people in this thread jump on the back foot and get defensive whenever anyone says anything critical about the game.

[Revamp Man]

I also suggested this earlier (because it's really the most obvious thing). I am not sure how it could be gained. Imo the ideal thing would be to just let people get the talent points as long as they have completed some very basic content.
The important thing is that if you give people a few additional talent points for free during the xpac it's not borrowed power because in the next xpac you can just have them NOT gain talent points for the first few levels. E.g. if we get 5 more talent points during Dragonflight that will be very transformative. If the next xpac increases cap to 80 and gives us a total of 71 talent points, older players will only get points from 76-80 which again will be enough to change their gameplay and new players will not have to play DF since they just get those 5 points from leveling. It is an elegant solution.

How they are gained and how alt-friendly that is will be important. Looking at how the talent trees are now I can say that every new talent point will be meaningful since at that point in your progression you have opened up the strongest talents in your trees so every point can be spend in something powerful.

so if i were to make talent points a reward i wouldnt have them instead of talent points in the next expansion. I would however have the new talents in 11.0 require all talent points from before 71 to be spent and any talent points gained between 10.0 lvl70 to 11.0 lvl71 be automatically granted. Make them part of the equivalent to the covenant campaign and in the final patch be almost immediately gained with alts having the points auto unlocked via skipping the story. This way you wont have to penalize players for playing the previous expansion by making their leveling experience feeling less rewarding AND you wont have to worry about players using those extra talent points to get ahead on the new talents.

Personally i would prefer them to not do anything with talent points and just give us unique effects on gear because i can tell you right now even just 3 extra talent points on some trees will lead to wonky builds that will need more balancing

[Makorus]

Quite rude to say that someone is "bitching" about something.

I saw nothing interesting in grinding millions and millions of artifact power.

Or countless hours of grinding RNG legendary.

Or countless hours of grinding azerite gear.

Doing content I dont like to get bis azerite essence.

Grind the HELL out of Horrific visions to get corruption I need.

Grinding the content I dont like just to get the conduit/legendary thats bis for me....

Yep... all these are CHORES. I dont want CHORES in an GAME. I want to have FUN in it.


Having extra content =/= having good content.

QUALITY >>>>>>>>>>>> quantity.

You can have that stuff without the grind they put that through. When I said I want the feeling of progression from Artifacts, you can have that without the grind. If I say I want something Artifacts again, I obviously don't want the bad stuff again as well.

My friend do you think Blizzard were holding back on announced content just to give us a "SURPRISE!!" moment when alpha is released? Has that EVER happened before?

The announced content, is the content we are getting outside of patch content. You thinking we may get some surprises in alpha or beta is hilarious. Like, what other big content are you expecting them to announce before launch?

Currently, in terms of announced content, then yes, Dragonflight is very much near the bottom of the pile in terms of content.

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Genuinely, source? As the only thing I've seen mentioned in regards to that is parts of the zones will be closed off until max level. Like parts of the SL zones.

Also, at what point is it a grind? I don't think having to do content to get your BIS gear is a bad thing LMAO. It sounds like you just want them to remove gear altogether.

The Torghast comment is interesting though.

Both Mythic+ and the whole World Quest/Emissary system was not revealed until the Alpha/Blizzcon LMAO.

If you exclude those from Legion, it had fuck all content.

[Nymrohd]

so if i were to make talent points a reward i wouldnt have them instead of talent points in the next expansion. I would however have the new talents in 11.0 require all talent points from before 71 to be spent and any talent points gained between 10.0 lvl70 to 11.0 lvl71 be automatically granted. Make them part of the equivalent to the covenant campaign and in the final patch be almost immediately gained with alts having the points auto unlocked via skipping the story. This way you wont have to penalize players for playing the previous expansion by making their leveling experience feeling less rewarding AND you wont have to worry about players using those extra talent points to get ahead on the new talents.

Personally i would prefer them to not do anything with talent points and just give us unique effects on gear because i can tell you right now even just 3 extra talent points on some trees will lead to wonky builds that will need more balancing

Honestly, I like wonky builds And tier sets will also lead to wonky builds for sure by changing how different synergies are weighted. THis will be a very unique experience for simulation script writers; the level of complexity is far greater than it was back in Cata or Wrath.

As for unique effects on gear. With borrowed power you would eventually get it. Legiondaries were the exception and early legiondaries were horrible for exactly this reason. Moving a lot of power into special gear that you have no safeguards for is a recipe for disaster. Just ask any rogue without Sylvanas' daggers.