Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

so if i were to make talent points a reward i wouldnt have them instead of talent points in the next expansion. I would however have the new talents in 11.0 require all talent points from before 71 to be spent and any talent points gained between 10.0 lvl70 to 11.0 lvl71 be automatically granted. Make them part of the equivalent to the covenant campaign and in the final patch be almost immediately gained with alts having the points auto unlocked via skipping the story. This way you wont have to penalize players for playing the previous expansion by making their leveling experience feeling less rewarding AND you wont have to worry about players using those extra talent points to get ahead on the new talents.

Personally i would prefer them to not do anything with talent points and just give us unique effects on gear because i can tell you right now even just 3 extra talent points on some trees will lead to wonky builds that will need more balancing

Honestly, I like wonky builds And tier sets will also lead to wonky builds for sure by changing how different synergies are weighted. THis will be a very unique experience for simulation script writers; the level of complexity is far greater than it was back in Cata or Wrath.

As for unique effects on gear. With borrowed power you would eventually get it. Legiondaries were the exception and early legiondaries were horrible for exactly this reason. Moving a lot of power into special gear that you have no safeguards for is a recipe for disaster. Just ask any rogue without Sylvanas' daggers.

[Revamp Man]

No? I'm just mentioning facts, as in literally what we are being presented. I've not said that what we'll be getting is going to suck. I'm saying that what we're getting is not a lot.

Source? Go watch the fucking expansion announcement lol.

So many people in this thread jump on the back foot and get defensive whenever anyone says anything critical about the game.

so in terms of actual content that was shown compared to what we got in SL we are actually getting close to the same if the reputation renown system is attached to a story like the dailies were in MoP

the professions are going to be much less of a pain in the neck with much more reason to have a gathering profession
leveling gives us the same amount of zones with the dracthyr zone being our Maw
We dont have a torghast replacement but their talk about world content with incentives for grouping up sounds interesting
we dont have a soulbind/covenant replacement but personally im ok with that because the weekly "oh do your anima and souls quests for 30 minutes of campaign story" got so old so quickly
we do have tier sets immediately
we do get dragon flying which is equivalent to the covenant special buildings in that we will get cosmetics from it
we do get our full power kit at launch as far as we know
we get a new m+ style
we get new gearing for raids
i mean i wouldnt say that we arent getting a lot of stuff we just arent getting a lot of new stuff

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Honestly, I like wonky builds And tier sets will also lead to wonky builds for sure by changing how different synergies are weighted. THis will be a very unique experience for simulation script writers; the level of complexity is far greater than it was back in Cata or Wrath.

As for unique effects on gear. With borrowed power you would eventually get it. Legiondaries were the exception and early legiondaries were horrible for exactly this reason. Moving a lot of power into special gear that you have no safeguards for is a recipe for disaster. Just ask any rogue without Sylvanas' daggers.

i can honestly say if i cap my druid i will go into lfr as laser bear
i want my monk to be able to go full clones with nothing but ST abilities or maybe chi explosion

There are so many ways they can do this right i can not wait until next week to see how it goes

[Santandame]

You can have that stuff without the grind they put that through. When I said I want the feeling of progression from Artifacts, you can have that without the grind. If I say I want something Artifacts again, I obviously don't want the bad stuff again as well.



Both Mythic+ and the whole World Quest/Emissary system was not revealed until the Alpha/Blizzcon LMAO.

If you exclude those from Legion, it had fuck all content.

Quite the difference with Legion in terms of holding back the announcement for Mythic+ 2 months after the Legion reveal at Gamescom, for Blizzcon. Especially so when after that Blizzcon, Legion was still 10 months out. The difference also being, Legion got a reveal and features cinematic at Gamescom. They weren't given an extended amount of time to talk about the expansion, and they were also saving feature announcements for Blizzcon, two months after Gamescom.

Dragonflight was given its own pre-recorded launch. They had as much time to talk about upcoming expansion features as they wanted, without constraints. Instead they spoke about how excited they were to go shopping at some of the new vendors. Considering how barebones the release announcement was, and at a time where they needed as much goodwill with players as possible - tell me why they wouldn't announce additional major content features?

What big expansion feature do you expect them to announce when Dragonflight is projected to launch in the next 5 months? When do you expect them to announce it?

Oh right, I wasn't aware that mythic+ and WQ's were the only two prominent Legion features. Artifacts, Order Halls, the Suramar experience, the new honour system, legiondaries etc were all introduced in later expansions - right??

Feel free to come back and say "I told you so" at or just prior to expansion launch. I'll look forward to it.

[Nyel]

My friend do you think Blizzard were holding back on announced content just to give us a "SURPRISE!!" moment when alpha is released? Has that EVER happened before?

The announced content, is the content we are getting outside of patch content. You thinking we may get some surprises in alpha or beta is hilarious. Like, what other big content are you expecting them to announce before launch?

Currently, in terms of announced content, then yes, Dragonflight is very much near the bottom of the pile in terms of content.

Yes, quite a few in this thread are really thinking that and it's funny because it's pure copium.

There's more in alpha and beta and the final version! Trust me, it's my feelings.

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The problem with gear progression is that it's boring.

Artifacts were cool because what you got was exciting, even when it was tiny nodes.

Azerite Armour was cool because most of them had cool effects.

Corruption was cool because of that.

Conduits were interesting as well because quite a few really changed how the spec plays.

People who were bitching about "borrowed power" will be in for a rude awakening.

Oh, we agree on something.

Yes, most players will be in for a big surprise when they realize all they can gain at max level is better gear. This will be DF's biggest problem and it will backfire a lot. A lot. And it won't take long. Pretty sure after week 1 players will already be disappointed and bored by the lack of progression and incentives to play besides getting gear that's 10 item level higher than the previous one.

[Nymrohd]

Yes, quite a few in this thread are really thinking that and it's funny because it's pure copium.

There's more in alpha and beta and the final version! Trust me, it's my feelings.

I don't expect more features.

I do expect that a semi-competent implementation of crafting can elevate the replayability of existing features significantly enough to make the endgame interesting for a far longer period of time. I am still wary though because I do not trust this set of devs with progression. Zereth Mortis was just a very poor way to do it.

[Nyel]

I don't expect more features.

I do expect that a semi-competent implementation of crafting can elevate the replayability of existing features significantly enough to make the endgame interesting for a far longer period of time. I am still wary though because I do not trust this set of devs with progression. Zereth Mortis was just a very poor way to do it.

But isn't crafting just reduced to getting (aka crafting) better gear? And that's exactly the problem. Crafting doesn't change your gameplay, it doesn't progress how your character feels or plays. It's just better gear in the end.
_________

Btw, funny how the idea of gaining additional talent points at max level is somehow trending now after I mentioned this kind of progression a week ago.

[Sondrelk]

Quite the difference with Legion in terms of holding back the announcement for Mythic+ 2 months after the Legion reveal at Gamescom, for Blizzcon. Especially so when after that Blizzcon, Legion was still 10 months out. The difference also being, Legion got a reveal and features cinematic at Gamescom. They weren't given an extended amount of time to talk about the expansion, and they were also saving feature announcements for Blizzcon, two months after Gamescom.

Dragonflight was given its own pre-recorded launch. They had as much time to talk about upcoming expansion features as they wanted, without constraints. Instead they spoke about how excited they were to go shopping at some of the new vendors. Considering how barebones the release announcement was, and at a time where they needed as much goodwill with players as possible - tell me why they wouldn't announce additional major content features?

What big expansion feature do you expect them to announce when Dragonflight is projected to launch in the next 5 months? When do you expect them to announce it?

Oh right, I wasn't aware that mythic+ and WQ's were the only two prominent Legion features. Artifacts, Order Halls, the Suramar experience, the new honour system, legiondaries etc were all introduced in later expansions - right??

Feel free to come back and say "I told you so" at or just prior to expansion launch. I'll look forward to it.

But this is all forgetting that for one we have all the same features sans Artifact weapons and Order Halls, but gaining Dragonriding instead.
And also, I very faintly remember the Legion announcement talking about much of the same DF is, like profession updates, how cool Dalaran looked, and generally not much on what exactly you would be doing at endgame beyond M+.

[Santandame]

Yes, quite a few in this thread are really thinking that and it's funny because it's pure copium.

There's more in alpha and beta and the final version! Trust me, it's my feelings.

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Oh, we agree on something.

Yes, most players will be in for a big surprise when they realize all they can gain at max level is better gear. This will be DF's biggest problem and it will backfire a lot. A lot. And it won't take long. Pretty sure after week 1 players will already be disappointed and bored by the lack of progression and incentives to play besides getting gear that's 10 item level higher than the previous one.

The majority of this thread is an echo chamber. Critical comments are met with ridicule. I mean, there are people in this very thread that just vehemently come to the defense over whatever the shiny new toy/expansion Blizzard put out for World of Warcraft. The same people who religuously defended SL while it was current, saying how amazing it was are now saying that a lot of SL sucked but Dragonflight looks incredible, purely because it's the new/current thing. You can see it in the last few pages. Walking, talking contradictions and I think they don't think that anyone notices.

Then you get others who just immediately shut down any sort of critical comment with passive aggressive comments and no counter arguments, because it isn't lathering the current/future planned product in praise.

No, the people who are making the critical comments aren't haters, or trolling. They do it because they are justifiably skeptical and want the game to be the best it can possibly be. Unfortunately, the amount of posters who employ any sort of critical thinking in here are in the single digits.

The expansion is launching on roughly 5 months, give or take a month. The features that have been announced, are the only features we are getting, at least until major content patches.

Now, what has been announced has potential to be very, very good. But the fact of the matter is, what has been announced is very, very content lite. Unless you are a diehard WoW fan, then there will be very little incentive to play much longer after hitting max level. Because as Nyel has said, the only form of endgame progression will be gear upgrades, with cosmetic hunting on the side.

People often complain about the casual, tourist players who jump in for a couple of weeks and then disappear. You're very likely going to see a lot more of them.

You like what you like, if you're a fan of what Dragonflight is offering, then power to you, that's absolutely fine. But that does not change the undismissable fact, that as of stands, Dragonflight is the most content bereft of all the modern WoW expansions.

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But this is all forgetting that for one we have all the same features sans Artifact weapons and Order Halls, but gaining Dragonriding instead.
And also, I very faintly remember the Legion announcement talking about much of the same DF is, like profession updates, how cool Dalaran looked, and generally not much on what exactly you would be doing at endgame beyond M+.

Legion announcement at Gamescom was limited due to time constraints, plus the fact there was a Blizzcon scheduled not long after. Legion was still 10 months out after that. They were clearly holding back details so they could talk about it at Blizzcon in detail instead of quickly announcing "Mythic+ dungeons are coming too!"

Dragonflight is projected to launch 5/6 months from now, give or take a month. When are they going to announce a major new feature? Where are they going to announce it? What do they have to gain from withholding that from the players? They could have discussed all planned features in length during their announcement video.

Dragon Riding and Artifacts can't really be compared can they? One changes your overall endgame experience. The other is just a mode of transport and cosmetic hunting on top.

Don't get me wrong, Dragon Riding looks like fun. But it is so fundamentally different from Artifacts and what both offer in terms of an overall gameplay experience.

[Sondrelk]

-snip-

Dragonriding is a major feature in that sense, as well as the big focus on core systems.
The game did perfectly fine without any new and shiny box feature all the way up until MoP, and the insistence on having a dangling set of keys every single expansion is often cited as one of the problems with those expansions, from how Garrisons was a development black hole that sank WoD, to how island expeditions and warfronts were boring and unchallenging grinds shoehorned into the gearing process.

The various features cannot always be compared 1-to-1, but this in itself is a bit of a pitfall in comparison as it values number of features over quality.

[Santandame]

Dragonriding is a major feature in that sense, as well as the big focus on core systems.
The game did perfectly fine without any new and shiny box feature all the way up until MoP, and the insistence on having a dangling set of keys every single expansion is often cited as one of the problems with those expansions, from how Garrisons was a development black hole that sank WoD, to how island expeditions and warfronts were boring and unchallenging grinds shoehorned into the gearing process.

The various features cannot always be compared 1-to-1, but this in itself is a bit of a pitfall in comparison as it values number of features over quality.

I'd disagree in terms of Dragon Riding. Dragon Riding is just a glammed up mode of transport. Artifacts changed the way you played your class. You can't take Dragon Riding into combat with you, which is the main core of the game.

The audience and playerbase have changed from Classic- MoP, so that's not really an accurate comparison.

Also, hard disagree on Garrisons sinking WoD. Whilst panned by many, it was still enjoyed by some. The issue with WoD was that outside of raids and the garrison, there was no incentive to play the game. Until Tanaan Jungle came along and offered a sandbox experience but even then that wasn't fantastic.

[Sondrelk]

I'd disagree in terms of Dragon Riding. Dragon Riding is just a glammed up mode of transport. Artifacts changed the way you played your class. You can't take Dragon Riding into combat with you, which is the main core of the game.

The audience and playerbase have changed from Classic- MoP, so that's not really an accurate comparison.

It changes up the open world, which is a major feature to many people.
And again, we are getting major changes to talents, which is in itself a large shakeup to how the classes play in theory. Just because we don't have Artifacts doesn't mean we are not going to get classes that evolve over time.

[Trumpcat]

...
I dont want CHORES in an GAME. I want to have FUN in it.


Having extra content =/= having good content.

QUALITY >>>>>>>>>>>> quantity.

Agreed, although there will surely be some kind of systems that prolong character progression. Still, DF may only have big zones, dungeons and raids and it won't need anything else if those are fun to do, have enough variety and are rewarding. If the classes are fun to play.

How many consider the island expeditions, warfronts or torghast fun to play? Yeah, it was interesting checking them out at the beginning and we soon found out they are tedious and unless you were hell bent on collecting certain cosmetics or need a unique resource you wouldn't do them for fun, because they aren't fun.

With that I hope that instead of investing in experimental features they have doubled down on stuff that actually mattered through the years. (Although I'd like both)

[Lady Atia]

I was just thinking today that the Legion Artifact Weapons were the best and I really wish they were re-introducing that sort of system for Dragonflight instead of the Dragonriding system.

Going around collecting weapon appearances has been great. I just don't really care about a mount (not to mention Druids don't even need them) as much.

Druids will defo need them, especially at the start. And even once they introduce classic flying, Dragonriding will still be faster so there will be a niche for both.

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In other news, happy monday everyone! Can we dare to hope for an decrypted build today with invites going out in the next days? *waves my hopium flag*

[Raetary]

(not to mention Druids don't even need them) as much.

Dragonriding is replacing flying on the DIs, druids will have to use them too.

[Santandame]

It changes up the open world, which is a major feature to many people.
And again, we are getting major changes to talents, which is in itself a large shakeup to how the classes play in theory. Just because we don't have Artifacts doesn't mean we are not going to get classes that evolve over time.

Major feature yes but still in no way comparable to how important Artifacts were in terms of changing gameplay.

Aren't the talent trees essentially everything we already have just taken away and locked behind talents?

That isn't new. Artifacts gave us new abilities, some new engaging passives and ways to change gameplay.

From what videos I've seen dissecting the Dragonflight talent trees, it's just locking what we already have behind talents, as well as some damage modifiers. There isn't much in the way of new talents. That's just an illusion of giving us something new and once again, in no way comparable to the Artifacts.

[Nyel]

Dragonriding is a major feature in that sense, as well as the big focus on core systems.
The game did perfectly fine without any new and shiny box feature all the way up until MoP, and the insistence on having a dangling set of keys every single expansion is often cited as one of the problems with those expansions, from how Garrisons was a development black hole that sank WoD, to how island expeditions and warfronts were boring and unchallenging grinds shoehorned into the gearing process.

The various features cannot always be compared 1-to-1, but this in itself is a bit of a pitfall in comparison as it values number of features over quality.

We really don't know that. Dragonriding is a feature, yes. If it's major, what it's used for, how it works - we have no clue. We don't know how massive it will be or if it's just pathfinder 4.0 in yet another form that tries to distract players of what it really is: restricted flying.

By the way, I think two new classes and two new races (TBC), a new class and a new profession and glyphs (WotLK) and two new races and an entirely revamped world (Cataclysm) were pretty big features we got even in the first expansions.

It changes up the open world, which is a major feature to many people.
And again, we are getting major changes to talents, which is in itself a large shakeup to how the classes play in theory. Just because we don't have Artifacts doesn't mean we are not going to get classes that evolve over time.

That's what you suppose. As said above, we simply don't know yet. "Unlock areas you previously couldn't reach" is peak vague. I think we all hope it's as intricate and in depth as you say, but they need to clarify that.

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Major feature yes but still in no way comparable to how important Artifacts were in terms of changing gameplay.

Aren't the talent trees essentially everything we already have just taken away and locked behind talents?

That isn't new. Artifacts gave us new abilities, some new engaging passives and ways to change gameplay.

From what videos I've seen dissecting the Dragonflight talent trees, it's just locking what we already have behind talents, as well as some damage modifiers. There isn't much in the way of new talents. That's just an illusion of giving us something new and once again, in no way comparable to the Artifacts.

It's exactly that. There's almost nothing new to be found. I find it hilarious how players treat this mostly visual change of talents and spell book into talent trees as the new holy grail. It's not. It might be good for the future of the game, but it's really a minor feature overall, by just how basic it really is.

[Manu9]

So BNet had this when I launched it then it disappeared...

https://imgur.com/FyPjSwt

[Lady Atia]

So BNet had this when I launched it then it disappeared...

https://imgur.com/FyPjSwt

Could be for the wrath beta maybe? Check if you got into that ^.^

[Manu9]

Could be for the wrath beta maybe? Check if you got into that ^.^

I checked, nothing else seems out of place, no new betas on my account or anything, could be just a fluke tbh.

[Makorus]

Quite the difference with Legion in terms of holding back the announcement for Mythic+ 2 months after the Legion reveal at Gamescom, for Blizzcon. Especially so when after that Blizzcon, Legion was still 10 months out. The difference also being, Legion got a reveal and features cinematic at Gamescom. They weren't given an extended amount of time to talk about the expansion, and they were also saving feature announcements for Blizzcon, two months after Gamescom.

Dragonflight was given its own pre-recorded launch. They had as much time to talk about upcoming expansion features as they wanted, without constraints. Instead they spoke about how excited they were to go shopping at some of the new vendors. Considering how barebones the release announcement was, and at a time where they needed as much goodwill with players as possible - tell me why they wouldn't announce additional major content features?

What big expansion feature do you expect them to announce when Dragonflight is projected to launch in the next 5 months? When do you expect them to announce it?

Oh right, I wasn't aware that mythic+ and WQ's were the only two prominent Legion features. Artifacts, Order Halls, the Suramar experience, the new honour system, legiondaries etc were all introduced in later expansions - right??

Feel free to come back and say "I told you so" at or just prior to expansion launch. I'll look forward to it.

The Legion announcement was over an hour long. Longer than the Dragonflight showcase, and they did spend a lot of time talking about pointless fluff.

Legions features were just as much fluff as the Dragonflight ones right now. Artifacts, yeah, sure, they were a big one, but then again, the reason we don't get anything on the level of Artifacts is because the fanbase is vehemently against that.

Order Halls are literally just small cities. Garrison where you can't place buildings. Hardly a "prominent feature". Suramar is just a zone LMAO. Honour system, absolutely. Equivalent to the Profession revamp. While Legiondaries are a big thing, they are hardly a prominent feature like a new Honour system, Artifacts, M+ or World Quest.

Legions reveal just seemed better because Artifacts gave you so much speculation until Blizzcon.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think there will be any big things coming to Dragonflight, but it just seems pretty stupid to already pass judgment at this point when there's a precedence of them adding the biggest features during the Alpha.