Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Dracullus]

I think dataminable build is all we can hope for, I doubt they would start 2 Betas one same week.

We had stuff to collect in WoD too. Not as much as now but still a decent amount.

So far Dragonflight is looking most comparable to WoD, just with Mythic+ on top and Dragon riding being the niche expansion feature as opposed to Garrisons.

"Not as much" is big, big understatement. Nowadays we get more mounts in patch than in older expansions. And many people are into getting them all. Same with pets, toys, transmog (before Legion transmog hunting beside few specific sets you really like wasn't even a thing). Shadowlands had good idea with side activities for covenants, but a) you could have only 1 and b) it required Anima grinding, so hopefully they will iterate on stuff like this .

And good you mentioned M+, that's another HUGE thing. Before that we didn't really have "spammy" content to play for PVE, you grinded dungeons only to be prepared for raid and later it was either no point or daily reward for easy thing.

Doesn't look like world quests are going somewhere either. Remember in WoD only daily world content was few apexis "fill the bar" stuff that took forever. Now emissaries are quick, give some starter gear, chunk of rep and shit ton of gold (for that effort). Only change I hate in SL is that you have to pick and end emissary in your covenant.

So sorry, but no, game isn't like WoD at all, infinite power grind wasn't only thing that was added in Legion.

[Kiivar86]

I was just thinking today that the Legion Artifact Weapons were the best and I really wish they were re-introducing that sort of system for Dragonflight instead of the Dragonriding system.

Going around collecting weapon appearances has been great. I just don't really care about a mount (not to mention Druids don't even need them) as much.

I liked the concept of it but I hated it in practice.

At least at the time due to transmog restrictions. I have a pretty wide library and I was stuck with fucking fists for the whole expansion. Maybe now it'd be better at least.

[Santandame]

I think dataminable build is all we can hope for, I doubt they would start 2 Betas one same week.



"Not as much" is big, big understatement. Nowadays we get more mounts in patch than in older expansions. And many people are into getting them all. Same with pets, toys, transmog (before Legion transmog hunting beside few specific sets you really like wasn't even a thing). Shadowlands had good idea with side activities for covenants, but a) you could have only 1 and b) it required Anima grinding, so hopefully they will iterate on stuff like this .

And good you mentioned M+, that's another HUGE thing. Before that we didn't really have "spammy" content to play for PVE, you grinded dungeons only to be prepared for raid and later it was either no point or daily reward for easy thing.

Doesn't look like world quests are going somewhere either. Remember in WoD only daily world content was few apexis "fill the bar" stuff that took forever. Now emissaries are quick, give some starter gear, chunk of rep and shit ton of gold (for that effort). Only change I hate in SL is that you have to pick and end emissary in your covenant.

So sorry, but no, game isn't like WoD at all, infinite power grind wasn't only thing that was added in Legion.

My point is, which I've mentioned a few times, that Dragonflight is very content lite as far as modern expansions go. Not that it is a carbon copy of WoD, but that it is closer to WoD in terms of content added than it is Legion, BfA or SL.

[Speedblast]

I just want to see more of the new Evoker class . I hope we get a blogpost or something soon.

[Santandame]

The Legion announcement was over an hour long. Longer than the Dragonflight showcase, and they did spend a lot of time talking about pointless fluff.

Legions features were just as much fluff as the Dragonflight ones right now. Artifacts, yeah, sure, they were a big one, but then again, the reason we don't get anything on the level of Artifacts is because the fanbase is vehemently against that.

Order Halls are literally just small cities. Garrison where you can't place buildings. Hardly a "prominent feature". Suramar is just a zone LMAO. Honour system, absolutely. Equivalent to the Profession revamp. While Legiondaries are a big thing, they are hardly a prominent feature like a new Honour system, Artifacts, M+ or World Quest.

Legions reveal just seemed better because Artifacts gave you so much speculation until Blizzcon.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think there will be any big things coming to Dragonflight, but it just seems pretty stupid to already pass judgment at this point when there's a precedence of them adding the biggest features during the Alpha.

Regardless of your nitpicking here, Legion still offered mor content on launch than Dragonflight did.

Also, you haven't addressed the entire point I was making, instead you've cherry picked.

Blizzcon was what, 2 months after Gamescom. Legion launch was 10 months out from Blizzcon. No, major features weren't just randomly dropped in the Alpha like "hehe surprise", they had panels dedicated to Mythic+ and WQ's at Blizzcon. The same Blizzcon that was 2 months after the initial expansion reveal, and 10 months from release. Had the release date even been announced at this point? I don't think so.

We are roughly 5 months away from expansion launch. Ergo, this will be the shortest Alpha/Beta testing cycle. Where and when do you expect the announcement to be made for more big Dragonflight features?

Wait, so you don't think that any more features will make it in? Then why make your very first point about it being "hilarious" to call Dragonflight content lite? Just to argue? If so, again - when do you expect the announcement to happen? Where do you expect it to happen? At Blizzcon, around the projected release date, with no time for testing?

LMAO - give me a break.

[Dracullus]

My point is, which I've mentioned a few times, that Dragonflight is very content lite as far as modern expansions go. Not that it is a carbon copy of WoD, but that it is closer to WoD in terms of content added than it is Legion, BfA or SL.

I would distinguish "new features light" from "new content light". And I'm not sure if we should put Legion in "WoD" or "BfA" camp - depend if you view M+/world quests as iteration on dungeons/dailies or new features. Because, if it's new.. then why we don't view WoD raids, BfA war mode, SL leveling revamp, DF talent revamp same way?

[Nyel]

I just want to see more of the new Evoker class . I hope we get a blogpost or something soon.

Yeah, 2 months and we haven't gotten anything about Evoker besides the names of the two skill lines. It's just very, very strange at this point. It seems like everything revolving around them is either in shambles or top secret.

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I would distinguish "new features light" from "new content light". And I'm not sure if we should put Legion in "WoD" or "BfA" camp - depend if you view M+/world quests as iteration on dungeons/dailies or new features. Because, if it's new.. then why we don't view WoD raids, BfA war mode, SL leveling revamp, DF talent revamp same way?

Maybe we don't do that because Mythic+ and world quests were pretty groundbreaking and still leave a major impression on the game while things like WoD raiding system, war mode and the talent revamp are nowhere near as impactful? I mean Mythic+ and world quests basically introduced two complete new types of content and ways to play.

[Santandame]

I would distinguish "new features light" from "new content light". And I'm not sure if we should put Legion in "WoD" or "BfA" camp - depend if you view M+/world quests as iteration on dungeons/dailies or new features. Because, if it's new.. then why we don't view WoD raids, BfA war mode, SL leveling revamp, DF talent revamp same way?

I'm not sure what you're saying? I wouldn't put Legion with WoD at all. One is one of the, if not the best expansion released, helped by the sheer amount of worthwhile content and one is WoD lol.

BfA whilst not being a fan favourite still added a lot of fresh content, as did Shadowlands.

The only new content we are getting with Dragonflight is Dragon Riding, which is essentially, as we know it at the moment, a more glamorous transport mode.

What did we have to do outside in Legion outside of raids and mythic+? Quite a lot of content. BfA? A lot of content too. SL? Not quite as much as the other two, but a fair amount.

What do we have to do outside of raids and mythic+ in Dragonflight? Dragon Riding. Anything else? No, not really, professions if you can count that? Yay? Now, replace Dragon Riding with Garrisons, because like Dragonflight with Dragon Riding, Garrisons were WoD's big centrepiece attraction. They filled the role of cosmetic hunting as well as professions.

Okay we still have Mythic + in DF, which we didn't in WoD. But DF is still absolutely bereft of content compared to the previous three expansions. How is Dragonflight not closer to WoD in terms of content than It is Legion, BfA and SL?

But not to fear. We have a visual change to talent trees that are creating the illusion of a class and talent overhaul, locking what we have already behind talents, not giving us any new abilities, and mostly being damage modifiers. Nowhere near as groundbreaking or detailed as the Artifact talent trees. Not even to mention the majority of specs in Legion getting a complete overhaul.

[Cheezits]

It doesn't matter how much content is in an expansion if it sucks. WoD for its notoriety and emptiness has a LOT of people saying that the classes were godly.

Mists was raidlog + CM +dailies and is one of the most enjoyed expansions today.

So far, DF looks like raidlog + M+ + Dailies. No different from MOP (inb4 6 paragraphs about scenarios)

[Dracullus]

I'm not sure what you're saying? I wouldn't put Legion with WoD at all. One is one of the, if not the best expansion released, helped by the sheer amount of worthwhile content and one is WoD lol.

BfA whilst not being a fan favourite still added a lot of fresh content, as did Shadowlands.

The only new content we are getting with Dragonflight is Dragon Riding, which is essentially, as we know it at the moment, a more glamorous transport mode.

What did we have to do outside in Legion outside of raids and mythic+? Quite a lot of content. BfA? A lot of content too. SL? Not quite as much as the other two, but a fair amount.

What do we have to do outside of raids and mythic+ in Dragonflight? Dragon Riding. Anything else? No, not really, professions if you can count that? Yay? Now, replace Dragon Riding with Garrisons, because like Dragonflight with Dragon Riding, Garrisons were WoD's big centrepiece attraction. They filled the role of cosmetic hunting as well as professions.

Okay we still have Mythic + in DF, which we didn't in WoD. But DF is still absolutely bereft of content compared to the previous three expansions. How is Dragonflight not closer to WoD in terms of content than It is Legion, BfA and SL?

But not to fear. We have a visual change to talent trees that are creating the illusion of a class and talent overhaul, locking what we have already behind talents, not giving us any new abilities, and mostly being damage modifiers. Nowhere near as groundbreaking or detailed as the Artifact talent trees. Not even to mention the majority of specs in Legion getting a complete overhaul.

Then maybe read why I wrote? Where I said Legion and WoD had similar quality? I said it's not so clear if Legion's M+/world quest should be cathegorized as new type of content like Torghast or rather iteration of existing content like WoD raid system overhaul.

Looks like for you Blizzard forcing you to spam content = more content. SL have a LOT more world content than Legion even with 1 patch less, every zone become it's own "timeless isle" with rares, treasures, secrets, covenant activities. Legion have more narrative content thanks to Suramar.. but still not top expansion, BfA is king here, it have enough narrative content to fill both factions.

We have yet to see how much content DF will have. Especially world content that is totally unknown currently (still it would suprise me to see less than DF, especially since they said that continent has Northend size). For season I think 10 boss raid/8 x M+/PVP (with new solo mode as 4th option for rated PVP) became standard - question here is if they keep good schedule from 9.1.5 to 10.0or repeat 9.0-9.1.5 disaster.

And I know it's almost tradition discarding new zones/raids/dungeons/seasons as new content in WoW community, but it doesn't make it less stupid.

Maybe we don't do that because Mythic+ and world quests were pretty groundbreaking and still leave a major impression on the game while things like WoD raiding system, war mode and the talent revamp are nowhere near as impactful? I mean Mythic+ and world quests basically introduced two complete new types of content and ways to play.

World quests were not more groundbreaking as features I posted. For M+, I think it's about how drastically it changed dungeon playstyle, so part of M+ success is how bad dungeons were treated for years. Flex raids, war mode or new leveling are more like evolution, not revolution.

[Lady Atia]

Then maybe read why I wrote? Where I said Legion and WoD had similar quality? I said it's not so clear if Legion's M+/world quest should be cathegorized as new type of content like Torghast or rather iteration of existing content like WoD raid system overhaul.

Looks like for you Blizzard forcing you to spam content = more content. SL have a LOT more world content than Legion even with 1 patch less, every zone become it's own "timeless isle" with rares, treasures, secrets, covenant activities. Legion have more narrative content thanks to Suramar.. but still not top expansion, BfA is king here, it have enough narrative content to fill both factions.

We have yet to see how much content DF will have. Especially world content that is totally unknown currently (still it would suprise me to see less than DF, especially since they said that continent has Northend size). For season I think 10 boss raid/8 x M+/PVP (with new solo mode as 4th option for rated PVP) became standard - question here is if they keep good schedule from 9.1.5 to 10.0or repeat 9.0-9.1.5 disaster.

And I know it's almost tradition discarding new zones/raids/dungeons/seasons as new content in WoW community, but it doesn't make it less stupid.

Ewww, BfA may have had more content than Legion for it's story (actually, no it didn't, Legion had content for each class which was far more than the 2 BfA "campaigns"), but it's quality was way worse. They literally had to retcon half of it with Shadowlands anyways, and I'm glad they did. No, BfA isn't a king, it may be happy to share last place story wise together with TBC.

[Makorus]

Regardless of your nitpicking here, Legion still offered mor content on launch than Dragonflight did.

Also, you haven't addressed the entire point I was making, instead you've cherry picked.

Blizzcon was what, 2 months after Gamescom. Legion launch was 10 months out from Blizzcon. No, major features weren't just randomly dropped in the Alpha like "hehe surprise", they had panels dedicated to Mythic+ and WQ's at Blizzcon. The same Blizzcon that was 2 months after the initial expansion reveal, and 10 months from release. Had the release date even been announced at this point? I don't think so.

We are roughly 5 months away from expansion launch. Ergo, this will be the shortest Alpha/Beta testing cycle. Where and when do you expect the announcement to be made for more big Dragonflight features?

Wait, so you don't think that any more features will make it in? Then why make your very first point about it being "hilarious" to call Dragonflight content lite? Just to argue? If so, again - when do you expect the announcement to happen? Where do you expect it to happen? At Blizzcon, around the projected release date, with no time for testing?

LMAO - give me a break.

They absolutely just dropped World Quests onto the Alpha without anything beforehand.

How do I know this? Because I was one of the first people to actually document World Quests being added LMAO

They were NOT discussed during Blizzcon 2015.

And my point is this: We don't know what content Dragonflight has.

Shadowlands had 4 different covenants with 10 different abilities each, had Torghast, had the Maw, had Legendaries, every covenant had it's unique feature. That doesn't mean anything if the content is shit.

People complained about the latest expansions having too many different systems (which is what you would call features), and this is where it got us. But just because it doesn't have that doesn't mean it doesn't have content.

[Cheezits]

Note that they also refuse to acknowledge the existence of a new class, which WoD/BFA lack. I'm sure they won't say that's enough "content" though.

[Santandame]

Then maybe read why I wrote? Where I said Legion and WoD had similar quality? I said it's not so clear if Legion's M+/world quest should be cathegorized as new type of content like Torghast or rather iteration of existing content like WoD raid system overhaul.

Looks like for you Blizzard forcing you to spam content = more content. SL have a LOT more world content than Legion even with 1 patch less, every zone become it's own "timeless isle" with rares, treasures, secrets, covenant activities. Legion have more narrative content thanks to Suramar.. but still not top expansion, BfA is king here, it have enough narrative content to fill both factions.

We have yet to see how much content DF will have. Especially world content that is totally unknown currently (still it would suprise me to see less than DF, especially since they said that continent has Northend size). For season I think 10 boss raid/8 x M+/PVP (with new solo mode as 4th option for rated PVP) became standard - question here is if they keep good schedule from 9.1.5 to 10.0or repeat 9.0-9.1.5 disaster.

And I know it's almost tradition discarding new zones/raids/dungeons/seasons as new content in WoW community, but it doesn't make it less stupid.



World quests were not more groundbreaking as features I posted. For M+, I think it's about how drastically it changed dungeon playstyle, so part of M+ success is how bad dungeons were treated for years. Flex raids, war mode or new leveling are more like evolution, not revolution.

I read what you wrote, it was pretty garbled and the point you were trying to make didn't seem very coherent.

[Marlamin]

Could be for the wrath beta maybe? Check if you got into that ^.^

Wrath Beta is wow_classic_beta, screenshot mentions wow_beta which is for mainline WoW and where the F&F/Beta for Dragonflight will be. Probably still nothing noteworthy, though. Stuff appears in there all the time for no reason for me (although I have messed around with installing unavailable things in the past).

[Dracullus]

Ewww, BfA may have had more content than Legion for it's story (actually, no it didn't, Legion had content for each class which was far more than the 2 BfA "campaigns"), but it's quality was way worse. They literally had to retcon half of it with Shadowlands anyways, and I'm glad they did. No, BfA isn't a king, it may be happy to share last place story wise together with TBC.

I'm talking about amount of narrative content. Legion had 4 normal zones + 1 huuuge Suramar. Shadowlands just 4 normal zones (big as BfA ones, but ~35% of every zone is just for covenant campaigns). BfA had 6 big zones filled with side quests (kinda sad most of this content was wasted). As for content, I think class campaigns vs war campaigns (including zone intros for enemy continent) vs covenant campaigns pretty much even out.

I read what you wrote, it was pretty garbled and the point you were trying to make didn't seem very coherent.

Amount of content is not same as amount of new features, I know hard concept. But I see I made mistake of not reading rest of your posts before responding to one.

[Santandame]

Note that they also refuse to acknowledge the existence of a new class, which WoD/BFA lack. I'm sure they won't say that's enough "content" though.

Okay, a two spec class, none of which we have any details on.

Also, not everyone will reroll to an Evoker. It can hardly be compared to the aforementioned Artifacts, Garrisons, Azerite Armour, Covenants of which every player experienced at end game.

If you are sitting there implying Dragonflight has more content than BfA then you are either lying or misinformed.

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It doesn't matter how much content is in an expansion if it sucks. WoD for its notoriety and emptiness has a LOT of people saying that the classes were godly.

Mists was raidlog + CM +dailies and is one of the most enjoyed expansions today.

So far, DF looks like raidlog + M+ + Dailies. No different from MOP (inb4 6 paragraphs about scenarios)

Are we at the point now where we are trying to say WoD was actually good? It doesn't matter if class design was godly - if the game is bereft of content then the class design argument loses authenticity.

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They absolutely just dropped World Quests onto the Alpha without anything beforehand.

How do I know this? Because I was one of the first people to actually document World Quests being added LMAO

They were NOT discussed during Blizzcon 2015.

And my point is this: We don't know what content Dragonflight has.

Shadowlands had 4 different covenants with 10 different abilities each, had Torghast, had the Maw, had Legendaries, every covenant had it's unique feature. That doesn't mean anything if the content is shit.

People complained about the latest expansions having too many different systems (which is what you would call features), and this is where it got us. But just because it doesn't have that doesn't mean it doesn't have content.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blizzar...me-system/amp/

Have you been caught out in a lie? Lol

Also, your opinion on the quality of the content is just your opinion. Other players may have gotten pleasure from it. Your opinion does no discount what it is.

[Marlamin]

Also, holy shit, stop bickering. I've barely seen any useful/interesting posts over the last few weeks.

There's very little speculation/hype going on and people are once again just focusing on the past.

If there's nothing to discuss, it's okay to not discuss anything. Dead thread > garbage thread.

[Nyel]

Note that they also refuse to acknowledge the existence of a new class, which WoD/BFA lack. I'm sure they won't say that's enough "content" though.

A class is not content. A class is a feature. And I'd say BfA's allied races have been its biggest selling point by the sheer amount of new races we got.

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Also, holy shit, stop bickering. I've barely seen any useful/interesting posts over the last few weeks.

That's Blizzard's fault though. Don't see how it can be blamed on the forum posters.

[Santandame]

I'm talking about amount of narrative content. Legion had 4 normal zones + 1 huuuge Suramar. Shadowlands just 4 normal zones (big as BfA ones, but ~35% of every zone is just for covenant campaigns). BfA had 6 big zones filled with side quests (kinda sad most of this content was wasted). As for content, I think class campaigns vs war campaigns (including zone intros for enemy continent) vs covenant campaigns pretty much even out.



Amount of content is not same as amount of new features, I know hard concept. But I see I made mistake of not reading rest of your posts before responding to one.

My point was in response to your "Legion in WoD or BfA camp". Literally made no sense because that wasn't the discussion. Likewise, should have known better when every post you make is vehemently defending the current product against any sort of criticism.