Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Dracullus]

I'll say this. A revamp does not have to happen with an xpac. It could be evergreen content added DURING an expac or at the pre-expansion lull.

Using old world as patch content is good idea. But I think just graphic revamp is pointless. My idea for revamp is doing zones from scratch as new continents for expansion. And doesn't have to be full EK/Kalimdor. I would be even against it since it would be opportunity to expand whole world. We could have 4 full expansions from Vanilla world.

Old world would still remain as Cata option for leveling. With AH coming to new city (and I thjnk all profession/AH related stuff will be only there anyway) Orgrimmar/Stormwind become even more pointless. In future expansion after Exile's Reach we could just sail straight away to Dragon Isles for 10-60 and Chromie would just wait for us there.

[Nymrohd]

Using old world as patch content is good idea. But I think just graphic revamp is pointless. My idea for revamp is doing zones from scratch as new continents for expansion. And doesn't have to be full EK/Kalimdor. I would be even against it since it would be opportunity to expand whole world. We could have 4 full expansions from Vanilla world.

Old world would still remain as Cata option for leveling. With AH coming to new city (and I thjnk all profession/AH related stuff will be only there anyway) Orgrimmar/Stormwind become even more pointless. In future expansion after Exile's Reach we could just sail straight away to Dragon Isles for 10-60 and Chromie would just wait for us there.

I mean the Eastern Kingdoms has three clear continents. Lordaeron (& Quel'thalas), Khaz Modan, Azeroth (everything south of Blackrock Mountain is called Azeroth in old lore). Kalimdor doesn't have clear separation. You could do North (everything from Ashenvale and to the North), Central (up to Feralas and TN) and South (Tanaris, Un'Goro, Silithus, Uldum). Both factions have a place in every one of those areas, even if limited.

By far the most interesting subcontinent is Lordaeron & Quel'thalas. It ties Horde through Forsaken, Blood Elves and Trolls and Alliance through Humans, Worgen and Dwarves (and you could easily use Hinterland Great Tree to create a Night Elf Presence).

I'd also agree with megazones being made. A new Lordaeron & Quel'thalas need not be so many zones. Hillsbrad already has Alterac (And perhaps could actually be enlarged to make Alterac look like a proper city ruin). Gilneas could add Tol'Barad and Crestfall and include the southern half of Silverpine. Tirisfal can get the rest and add part of WPL. The rest of the plaguelands could join together with whatever is north of Stratholme in an Eastweald zone, maybe adding the central and western Ghostlands. You could have Eastern ghostlands, Eastern eversong and the ZA instance into a Hills of Mashiara zone. Then add rest Eversong, Silvermoon and IQD into a new zone. Massive zones, keep large areas empty from questing for RP treasures and rares. Khaz Modan could really be 3-4 zones (Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge together, Loch Modan and Dun Morogh, Wetlands and part of Twilight Highlands, rest of Twilight Highlands with Badlands. MAYBE add an underground zone.

[huth]

Using old world as patch content is good idea. But I think just graphic revamp is pointless. My idea for revamp is doing zones from scratch as new continents for expansion. And doesn't have to be full EK/Kalimdor. I would be even against it since it would be opportunity to expand whole world. We could have 4 full expansions from Vanilla world.

Old world would still remain as Cata option for leveling. With AH coming to new city (and I thjnk all profession/AH related stuff will be only there anyway) Orgrimmar/Stormwind become even more pointless. In future expansion after Exile's Reach we could just sail straight away to Dragon Isles for 10-60 and Chromie would just wait for us there.

Imagine an entire expansion set in a single vanilla zone blown up to closer to lore proportions.

[Nymrohd]

Imagine an entire expansion set in a single vanilla zone blown up to closer to lore proportions.

You could easily turn Blackrock Mountain into an expansion. Burning Steppes, Searing Gorge and even Badlands are all part of the mountain range. Include the underground areas of Uldaman, the Dark Iron mines and city. Heck Molten Core should actually have been ANCIENT and include Firelands architecture; if you look at the maps, that area was the seat of power of Ragnaros since before the Black Empire and likely the point where he was banished. So you could have an underground area that melds Molten Core and Firelands aesthetics and be within lore.

[Hitei]

Imagine an entire expansion set in a single vanilla zone blown up to closer to lore proportions.

Sounds genuinely awful, ngl.

Revamp is barely interesting even at the continent level where there's at least significant variation in locale, factions and enemies. Hard pass on an entire expansion fighting fire elementals, ogres, and blackrock orcs in 6 subzones of lava and lava-adjacent scorched earth.

Also what is the roadmap at that point? Spend the next 50+ years releasing a single vanilla zone every two years, only to have the first one you do be out of date before you finish a subregion? How are you slotting a zone 10 times the size of the original into a map?

[Nyel]

think of Dragonriding as the new Pathfinder. You will have to use it for 1 patch and will be a bit wonky, and in the 2nd patch unlock regular flying for all mounts.

I hope it'll be like that, but they'll wrong on the wrong path til the end. The thing is, something like Dragonriding would be REALLY COOL if we wouldn't have had flying before in the game. But after 15 years of "normal" flying (being heavily gated since 2014) a feature just restricts flying even more and tries to turn it into a "new" feature simply doesn't work. Removing something we know for 15 years and giving it us back in a limited scope is just a terrible idea. You can lock secret areas or mini games behind it, but it doesn't change the real intention.

Flying in a game like GW2 was such a success because the world at that point was build around it and the two different flying mounts serve different purposes (even older zones have partially been adjusted or got stuff in that regard). And it was always more than just "riding in the air" with different ups and downs. In WoW the whole concept of Dragonriding just feels outdated and 15 years too late.

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You could easily turn Blackrock Mountain into an expansion. Burning Steppes, Searing Gorge and even Badlands are all part of the mountain range. Include the underground areas of Uldaman, the Dark Iron mines and city. Heck Molten Core should actually have been ANCIENT and include Firelands architecture; if you look at the maps, that area was the seat of power of Ragnaros since before the Black Empire and likely the point where he was banished. So you could have an underground area that melds Molten Core and Firelands aesthetics and be within lore.

Honestly, this sounds amazing. Sure, the aesthetic would be pretty one-sided, but overall it's a really cool concept. Same could be done with Silithus / Uldum / Tanaris or several other regions.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly, this sounds amazing. Sure, the aesthetic would be pretty one-sided, but overall it's a really cool concept. Same could be done with Silithus / Uldum / Tanaris or several other regions.

You have both badlands and volcanic areas, you have mountains, titanic facilities, firelands architecture, Dark Iron architecture. Make Shadowforge city a capital, add a goblin city and move Kargath in a place that makes sense and you could even add some additional areas that are not yet available and make them super-verdant; the area were the lava flows meet the sea in the bay between Stormwind and Dun Morogh is not really explored in game and could be transformed into a tropical area with steam vents like Un'goro

I still think doing Khaz Modan as a whole makes even more sense. Perhaps have an underground sea associated with N'zoth (his seat of power was in the Twilight Highlands in the Black Empire if I am not mistaken to round up underground areas and expand the Dragonmaw holdings into a proper city for the Horde. Redo Ironforge and have an expansion where the aboveground areas are a revamp and the underground areas are the expansion. While beneath Northrend and beneath Hyjal are also very interesting underground areas, beneath Khaz Modan is probably THE most interesting because of all the many influences there (Titanic Vaults next to the remnants of whatever seat of power N'zoth and Ragnaros had plus a heavily mined area with possible underground lairs of the black flight; that is FIVE themes)

[Makorus]

You have both badlands and volcanic areas, you have mountains, titanic facilities, firelands architecture, Dark Iron architecture. Make Shadowforge city a capital, add a goblin city and move Kargath in a place that makes sense and you could even add some additional areas that are not yet available and make them super-verdant; the area were the lava flows meet the sea in the bay between Stormwind and Dun Morogh is not really explored in game and could be transformed into a tropical area with steam vents like Un'goro

I still think doing Khaz Modan as a whole makes even more sense. Perhaps have an underground sea associated with N'zoth (his seat of power was in the Twilight Highlands in the Black Empire if I am not mistaken to round up underground areas and expand the Dragonmaw holdings into a proper city for the Horde. Redo Ironforge and have an expansion where the aboveground areas are a revamp and the underground areas are the expansion. While beneath Northrend and beneath Hyjal are also very interesting underground areas, beneath Khaz Modan is probably THE most interesting because of all the many influences there (Titanic Vaults next to the remnants of whatever seat of power N'zoth and Ragnaros had plus a heavily mined area with possible underground lairs of the black flight; that is FIVE themes)

With Blizzard seemingly aiming for larger zones, I could see them doing a Khaz Modan zone, a Northern and Southern Lordaeron zone, and maybe a Northern/Southern Azeroth zone (Sidenote: Can we change that part of the continent into something that's not Azeroth? It's really confusing).

Thing is, it does get kinda harder with Kalimdor. The northern area up until Ashenvale? Then Barrens tills Thousand Needles and then the rest? Dunno.

[Nymrohd]

With Blizzard seemingly aiming for larger zones, I could see them doing a Khaz Modan zone, a Northern and Southern Lordaeron zone, and maybe a Northern/Southern Azeroth zone (Sidenote: Can we change that part of the continent into something that's not Azeroth? It's really confusing).

Thing is, it does get kinda harder with Kalimdor. The northern area up until Ashenvale? Then Barrens tills Thousand Needles and then the rest? Dunno.

Just one zone? Turn the existing continents into 6-7 zones? Nah I don't see that.

[Makorus]

Just one zone? Turn the existing continents into 6-7 zones? Nah I don't see that.

I mean, Northrend is only a bit smaller than EK and it has 9 actual zones and two half zones. Dragonflight is gonna be a bigger than Northrend worldspace-wise and it only has 4.5/5 zones (depending on how big the Dracthyr intro zone is).

[Sondrelk]

Just one zone? Turn the existing continents into 6-7 zones? Nah I don't see that.

Why not? Most zones now are designed with one specific aesthetic and issue in mind. SL is the extreme example, but back in BfA every zone had cursory similarities to link then together as a specific island, but you didn't really ever confuse Tiragarde for Stormsong.
Secondly zones now are far more dense than ones in Vanilla, so ensuring a single modern zones worth of variety might take at least two different old zones.

Combine several zones and you end up with what could now be considered a single larger than average zone. A Dark Iron themed zone could be Burning Steppes and Searing gorge, with Badlands for variety, all with the same stories throughout.

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A world revamp is inevitable at some point unless WoW either ends soon, or we are expecting increasingly absurd and out there zones in the future.
The Dragon Isles was genuinely the last conventional area set on Azeroth that we both knew to expect, and had not visited, that could realistically have an entire expansion.
Beyond that we have Undermine, which is mostly underground, and a South seas expansion that utilizes the scraps of islands not already claimed by BfA like Tel'abim and Zul'dare.

At some point Blizzard has to reuse something, and unless they somehow scrounge up all those remaining scraps of unused Azeroth bound content and stretch it out with a scattering if random revamped zones then this type of expansion would be accurately described as a world revamp expansion.

[Nymrohd]

Why not? Most zones now are designed with one specific aesthetic and issue in mind. SL is the extreme example, but back in BfA every zone had cursory similarities to link then together as a specific island, but you didn't really ever confuse Tiragarde for Stormsong.
Secondly zones now are far more dense than ones in Vanilla, so ensuring a single modern zones worth of variety might take at least two different old zones.

Combine several zones and you end up with what could now be considered a single larger than average zone. A Dark Iron themed zone could be Burning Steppes and Searing gorge, with Badlands for variety, all with the same stories throughout.

Yeah I agree with that. But I'd see each subcontinent become 2-4 zones from the current 4-12. Not 1 one. All of Azeroth squashed in one zone? You'd go from swamp and fel infused badland to temperate forest, to tropical forest and so many other things. Changing it into Stranglethorn, Kingdom of Stormwind (not really united aesthetically but at least united in theme) and Swamp of Sorrow (including Blasted Lands) would make sense. Same with Khaz Modan (Blackrock Area, Ironforge Area, Wildhammer and Dragonmaw Area) and to an extent something similar could be done for much of Kalimdor though with harder to define borders. Lordaeron would be problematic imo and needs more zones simple because there is much greater density there. Alternatively it's one place that could be enlarged.

[Makorus]

I don't agree with a world revamp being inevitable. The only reason we need one is because having the world still be set in the Cataclysm is stupid and I feel a world reset is kinda needed at this point.

Sure, we are running out of known stuff, but I feel like just using known stuff is what is holding Blizzard back. They could literally just make up anything. I mean, that's what the Dragon Isles are. Up until BfA, were they even a thing in the canon? I know they were meant for Vanilla, but they never actually happened, and even then, what we got now is vastly different from what they were meant to be I imagine.

Recycling old stuff just because it's something people recognize is stupid.

[Nymrohd]

I don't agree with a world revamp being inevitable. The only reason we need one is because having the world still be set in the Cataclysm is stupid and I feel a world reset is kinda needed at this point.

Sure, we are running out of known stuff, but I feel like just using known stuff is what is holding Blizzard back. They could literally just make up anything. I mean, that's what the Dragon Isles are. Up until BfA, were they even a thing in the canon? I know they were meant for Vanilla, but they never actually happened, and even then, what we got now is vastly different from what they were meant to be I imagine.

Recycling old stuff just because it's something people recognize is stupid.

I mostly want revamp because I want the story to be told in the world. I am entirely OK with continents like MoP as long as they make sense and the things they add enhance and enrich the lore instead of making it cheaper or outright retconing it. I am still e.g. not OK with Broken Isles .

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Btw question. What do you think the added zones will be during Dragonflight? Will we discover more islands? Perhaps limited revamps of 2-3 zones? Maybe some elemental plane we have spend very limited time in like Skywall or Abyssal Maw? Something else entirely (e.g. Uldorus)?

[Nyel]

I mostly want revamp because I want the story to be told in the world. I am entirely OK with continents like MoP as long as they make sense and the things they add enhance and enrich the lore instead of making it cheaper or outright retconing it. I am still e.g. not OK with Broken Isles .

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Btw question. What do you think the added zones will be during Dragonflight? Will we discover more islands? Perhaps limited revamps of 2-3 zones? Maybe some elemental plane we have spend very limited time in like Skywall or Abyssal Maw? Something else entirely (e.g. Uldorus)?

Could totally see a return to Deepholme involving Wrathions storyline. Besides that? Maybe we'll get an Emerald Dream patch... and I think some kind of nexus-like / The Eye zone for the Blue Dragonflight seems cool, too. Another Caverns of Time thing for Bronze could happen as well. But honestly, I do not expect more than one brand new zone and the usage of another "old" (aka Deepholme / Caverns of Time) zone.

I still find it teribble that there is no floating zone. This was their one chance to make that happen and they simply don't although it would add SO MUCH. Imagine the zone floating in the middle of the continent and you can just jump down or fly down to the other continens (no f* fake loading screens this time, this made Shadowlands terribly unimmersive).

[Makorus]

I mostly want revamp because I want the story to be told in the world. I am entirely OK with continents like MoP as long as they make sense and the things they add enhance and enrich the lore instead of making it cheaper or outright retconing it. I am still e.g. not OK with Broken Isles .

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Btw question. What do you think the added zones will be during Dragonflight? Will we discover more islands? Perhaps limited revamps of 2-3 zones? Maybe some elemental plane we have spend very limited time in like Skywall or Abyssal Maw? Something else entirely (e.g. Uldorus)?

I got a feeling a revamped Dragonblight might be on the table. Maybe we will get another underground zone as a result of the whatever happens in Uldaman as well.

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Could totally see a return to Deepholme involving Wrathions storyline. Besides that? Maybe we'll get an Emerald Dream patch... and I think some kind of nexus-like / The Eye zone for the Blue Dragonflight seems cool, too. Another Caverns of Time thing for Bronze could happen as well. But honestly, I do not expect more than one brand new zone and the usage of another "old" (aka Deepholme / Caverns of Time) zone.

I still find it teribble that there is no floating zone. This was their one chance to make that happen and they simply don't although it would add SO MUCH. Imagine the zone floating in the middle of the continent and you can just jump down or fly down to the other continens (no f* fake loading screens this time, this made Shadowlands terribly unimmersive).

With Dragonriding, I think a flying zone would have been really really cool. You slowly progress further and further up as you upgrade your dragon and your skills.. Probably would have worked well at launch, dunno if it would work as a patch zone.

[Hyrja]

So I was watching Towelliee earlier today, and he said that the current wowdev build is very likely the build that we'll get and that he was told that alpha starts super soon.

[Valysar]

Alpha is "soon" since DF reveal it seems

[Catastrophy349]

I got a feeling a revamped Dragonblight might be on the table. Maybe we will get another underground zone as a result of the whatever happens in Uldaman as well.

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With Dragonriding, I think a flying zone would have been really really cool. You slowly progress further and further up as you upgrade your dragon and your skills.. Probably would have worked well at launch, dunno if it would work as a patch zone.

Here’s what I “think” or “hope” will happen to your point (copium/hopium alert):

1). While none of the current Dragon Isles zones are “floating” by your definition, I’m optimistic that the verticality of these zones will make them “almost feel” floating. For example, my guess is that Dragon-riding is going to be crucial to everything in the expansion: travel, completing quests, maybe even dungeons/raids only being accessible through flight.

2). To further point 1, from looking at the media photos/videos from the announcement, we could see many floating rocks/areas across the zones. These are “likely only accessible” through Dragon-riding (hence your floating continent/zone idea). So, while we may not get a “floating Dragon Isles” or “zones” exactly, this could be their interpretation.

3). Lastly, Dragon-riding is supposed to improve through a talent tree (or similar system) over time. I wouldn’t be surprised if we get either “invisible barriers” preventing us from reaching certain content until our skill is higher OR, quite simply, we can see on our screen areas that are “inaccessible” until our skill is higher.

All in all, Dragon-riding “could” be incredible; I hope it doesn’t fall flat.

[Lady Atia]

Could totally see a return to Deepholme involving Wrathions storyline. Besides that? Maybe we'll get an Emerald Dream patch... and I think some kind of nexus-like / The Eye zone for the Blue Dragonflight seems cool, too. Another Caverns of Time thing for Bronze could happen as well. But honestly, I do not expect more than one brand new zone and the usage of another "old" (aka Deepholme / Caverns of Time) zone.

I still find it teribble that there is no floating zone. This was their one chance to make that happen and they simply don't although it would add SO MUCH. Imagine the zone floating in the middle of the continent and you can just jump down or fly down to the other continens (no f* fake loading screens this time, this made Shadowlands terribly unimmersive).

Floating Zones would have been too similiar to Shadowlands. You know, the realm where everything was basically floating isles haha.

Also Steve Danuser already teased that the Emerald Dream would be more explored with Dragonflight (and we also have Ysera as a pin for the CE which implies her story will actually continue).