1. #59281
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedblast View Post
    I just want to see more of the new Evoker class . I hope we get a blogpost or something soon.
    Yeah, 2 months and we haven't gotten anything about Evoker besides the names of the two skill lines. It's just very, very strange at this point. It seems like everything revolving around them is either in shambles or top secret.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    I would distinguish "new features light" from "new content light". And I'm not sure if we should put Legion in "WoD" or "BfA" camp - depend if you view M+/world quests as iteration on dungeons/dailies or new features. Because, if it's new.. then why we don't view WoD raids, BfA war mode, SL leveling revamp, DF talent revamp same way?
    Maybe we don't do that because Mythic+ and world quests were pretty groundbreaking and still leave a major impression on the game while things like WoD raiding system, war mode and the talent revamp are nowhere near as impactful? I mean Mythic+ and world quests basically introduced two complete new types of content and ways to play.
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  2. #59282
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    I would distinguish "new features light" from "new content light". And I'm not sure if we should put Legion in "WoD" or "BfA" camp - depend if you view M+/world quests as iteration on dungeons/dailies or new features. Because, if it's new.. then why we don't view WoD raids, BfA war mode, SL leveling revamp, DF talent revamp same way?
    I'm not sure what you're saying? I wouldn't put Legion with WoD at all. One is one of the, if not the best expansion released, helped by the sheer amount of worthwhile content and one is WoD lol.

    BfA whilst not being a fan favourite still added a lot of fresh content, as did Shadowlands.

    The only new content we are getting with Dragonflight is Dragon Riding, which is essentially, as we know it at the moment, a more glamorous transport mode.

    What did we have to do outside in Legion outside of raids and mythic+? Quite a lot of content. BfA? A lot of content too. SL? Not quite as much as the other two, but a fair amount.

    What do we have to do outside of raids and mythic+ in Dragonflight? Dragon Riding. Anything else? No, not really, professions if you can count that? Yay? Now, replace Dragon Riding with Garrisons, because like Dragonflight with Dragon Riding, Garrisons were WoD's big centrepiece attraction. They filled the role of cosmetic hunting as well as professions.

    Okay we still have Mythic + in DF, which we didn't in WoD. But DF is still absolutely bereft of content compared to the previous three expansions. How is Dragonflight not closer to WoD in terms of content than It is Legion, BfA and SL?

    But not to fear. We have a visual change to talent trees that are creating the illusion of a class and talent overhaul, locking what we have already behind talents, not giving us any new abilities, and mostly being damage modifiers. Nowhere near as groundbreaking or detailed as the Artifact talent trees. Not even to mention the majority of specs in Legion getting a complete overhaul.
    Last edited by Santandame; 2022-06-27 at 01:34 PM.

  3. #59283
    It doesn't matter how much content is in an expansion if it sucks. WoD for its notoriety and emptiness has a LOT of people saying that the classes were godly.

    Mists was raidlog + CM +dailies and is one of the most enjoyed expansions today.

    So far, DF looks like raidlog + M+ + Dailies. No different from MOP (inb4 6 paragraphs about scenarios)

  4. #59284
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    I'm not sure what you're saying? I wouldn't put Legion with WoD at all. One is one of the, if not the best expansion released, helped by the sheer amount of worthwhile content and one is WoD lol.

    BfA whilst not being a fan favourite still added a lot of fresh content, as did Shadowlands.

    The only new content we are getting with Dragonflight is Dragon Riding, which is essentially, as we know it at the moment, a more glamorous transport mode.

    What did we have to do outside in Legion outside of raids and mythic+? Quite a lot of content. BfA? A lot of content too. SL? Not quite as much as the other two, but a fair amount.

    What do we have to do outside of raids and mythic+ in Dragonflight? Dragon Riding. Anything else? No, not really, professions if you can count that? Yay? Now, replace Dragon Riding with Garrisons, because like Dragonflight with Dragon Riding, Garrisons were WoD's big centrepiece attraction. They filled the role of cosmetic hunting as well as professions.

    Okay we still have Mythic + in DF, which we didn't in WoD. But DF is still absolutely bereft of content compared to the previous three expansions. How is Dragonflight not closer to WoD in terms of content than It is Legion, BfA and SL?

    But not to fear. We have a visual change to talent trees that are creating the illusion of a class and talent overhaul, locking what we have already behind talents, not giving us any new abilities, and mostly being damage modifiers. Nowhere near as groundbreaking or detailed as the Artifact talent trees. Not even to mention the majority of specs in Legion getting a complete overhaul.
    Then maybe read why I wrote? Where I said Legion and WoD had similar quality? I said it's not so clear if Legion's M+/world quest should be cathegorized as new type of content like Torghast or rather iteration of existing content like WoD raid system overhaul.

    Looks like for you Blizzard forcing you to spam content = more content. SL have a LOT more world content than Legion even with 1 patch less, every zone become it's own "timeless isle" with rares, treasures, secrets, covenant activities. Legion have more narrative content thanks to Suramar.. but still not top expansion, BfA is king here, it have enough narrative content to fill both factions.

    We have yet to see how much content DF will have. Especially world content that is totally unknown currently (still it would suprise me to see less than DF, especially since they said that continent has Northend size). For season I think 10 boss raid/8 x M+/PVP (with new solo mode as 4th option for rated PVP) became standard - question here is if they keep good schedule from 9.1.5 to 10.0or repeat 9.0-9.1.5 disaster.

    And I know it's almost tradition discarding new zones/raids/dungeons/seasons as new content in WoW community, but it doesn't make it less stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Maybe we don't do that because Mythic+ and world quests were pretty groundbreaking and still leave a major impression on the game while things like WoD raiding system, war mode and the talent revamp are nowhere near as impactful? I mean Mythic+ and world quests basically introduced two complete new types of content and ways to play.
    World quests were not more groundbreaking as features I posted. For M+, I think it's about how drastically it changed dungeon playstyle, so part of M+ success is how bad dungeons were treated for years. Flex raids, war mode or new leveling are more like evolution, not revolution.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2022-06-27 at 02:18 PM.

  5. #59285
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Then maybe read why I wrote? Where I said Legion and WoD had similar quality? I said it's not so clear if Legion's M+/world quest should be cathegorized as new type of content like Torghast or rather iteration of existing content like WoD raid system overhaul.

    Looks like for you Blizzard forcing you to spam content = more content. SL have a LOT more world content than Legion even with 1 patch less, every zone become it's own "timeless isle" with rares, treasures, secrets, covenant activities. Legion have more narrative content thanks to Suramar.. but still not top expansion, BfA is king here, it have enough narrative content to fill both factions.

    We have yet to see how much content DF will have. Especially world content that is totally unknown currently (still it would suprise me to see less than DF, especially since they said that continent has Northend size). For season I think 10 boss raid/8 x M+/PVP (with new solo mode as 4th option for rated PVP) became standard - question here is if they keep good schedule from 9.1.5 to 10.0or repeat 9.0-9.1.5 disaster.

    And I know it's almost tradition discarding new zones/raids/dungeons/seasons as new content in WoW community, but it doesn't make it less stupid.
    Ewww, BfA may have had more content than Legion for it's story (actually, no it didn't, Legion had content for each class which was far more than the 2 BfA "campaigns"), but it's quality was way worse. They literally had to retcon half of it with Shadowlands anyways, and I'm glad they did. No, BfA isn't a king, it may be happy to share last place story wise together with TBC.

  6. #59286
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    Regardless of your nitpicking here, Legion still offered mor content on launch than Dragonflight did.

    Also, you haven't addressed the entire point I was making, instead you've cherry picked.

    Blizzcon was what, 2 months after Gamescom. Legion launch was 10 months out from Blizzcon. No, major features weren't just randomly dropped in the Alpha like "hehe surprise", they had panels dedicated to Mythic+ and WQ's at Blizzcon. The same Blizzcon that was 2 months after the initial expansion reveal, and 10 months from release. Had the release date even been announced at this point? I don't think so.

    We are roughly 5 months away from expansion launch. Ergo, this will be the shortest Alpha/Beta testing cycle. Where and when do you expect the announcement to be made for more big Dragonflight features?

    Wait, so you don't think that any more features will make it in? Then why make your very first point about it being "hilarious" to call Dragonflight content lite? Just to argue? If so, again - when do you expect the announcement to happen? Where do you expect it to happen? At Blizzcon, around the projected release date, with no time for testing?

    LMAO - give me a break.
    They absolutely just dropped World Quests onto the Alpha without anything beforehand.

    How do I know this? Because I was one of the first people to actually document World Quests being added LMAO

    They were NOT discussed during Blizzcon 2015.

    And my point is this: We don't know what content Dragonflight has.

    Shadowlands had 4 different covenants with 10 different abilities each, had Torghast, had the Maw, had Legendaries, every covenant had it's unique feature. That doesn't mean anything if the content is shit.

    People complained about the latest expansions having too many different systems (which is what you would call features), and this is where it got us. But just because it doesn't have that doesn't mean it doesn't have content.

  7. #59287
    Note that they also refuse to acknowledge the existence of a new class, which WoD/BFA lack. I'm sure they won't say that's enough "content" though.

  8. #59288
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Then maybe read why I wrote? Where I said Legion and WoD had similar quality? I said it's not so clear if Legion's M+/world quest should be cathegorized as new type of content like Torghast or rather iteration of existing content like WoD raid system overhaul.

    Looks like for you Blizzard forcing you to spam content = more content. SL have a LOT more world content than Legion even with 1 patch less, every zone become it's own "timeless isle" with rares, treasures, secrets, covenant activities. Legion have more narrative content thanks to Suramar.. but still not top expansion, BfA is king here, it have enough narrative content to fill both factions.

    We have yet to see how much content DF will have. Especially world content that is totally unknown currently (still it would suprise me to see less than DF, especially since they said that continent has Northend size). For season I think 10 boss raid/8 x M+/PVP (with new solo mode as 4th option for rated PVP) became standard - question here is if they keep good schedule from 9.1.5 to 10.0or repeat 9.0-9.1.5 disaster.

    And I know it's almost tradition discarding new zones/raids/dungeons/seasons as new content in WoW community, but it doesn't make it less stupid.



    World quests were not more groundbreaking as features I posted. For M+, I think it's about how drastically it changed dungeon playstyle, so part of M+ success is how bad dungeons were treated for years. Flex raids, war mode or new leveling are more like evolution, not revolution.
    I read what you wrote, it was pretty garbled and the point you were trying to make didn't seem very coherent.

  9. #59289
    Fluffy Parrot Marlamin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Could be for the wrath beta maybe? Check if you got into that ^.^
    Wrath Beta is wow_classic_beta, screenshot mentions wow_beta which is for mainline WoW and where the F&F/Beta for Dragonflight will be. Probably still nothing noteworthy, though. Stuff appears in there all the time for no reason for me (although I have messed around with installing unavailable things in the past).

  10. #59290
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Ewww, BfA may have had more content than Legion for it's story (actually, no it didn't, Legion had content for each class which was far more than the 2 BfA "campaigns"), but it's quality was way worse. They literally had to retcon half of it with Shadowlands anyways, and I'm glad they did. No, BfA isn't a king, it may be happy to share last place story wise together with TBC.
    I'm talking about amount of narrative content. Legion had 4 normal zones + 1 huuuge Suramar. Shadowlands just 4 normal zones (big as BfA ones, but ~35% of every zone is just for covenant campaigns). BfA had 6 big zones filled with side quests (kinda sad most of this content was wasted). As for content, I think class campaigns vs war campaigns (including zone intros for enemy continent) vs covenant campaigns pretty much even out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    I read what you wrote, it was pretty garbled and the point you were trying to make didn't seem very coherent.
    Amount of content is not same as amount of new features, I know hard concept. But I see I made mistake of not reading rest of your posts before responding to one.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2022-06-27 at 02:30 PM.

  11. #59291
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Note that they also refuse to acknowledge the existence of a new class, which WoD/BFA lack. I'm sure they won't say that's enough "content" though.
    Okay, a two spec class, none of which we have any details on.

    Also, not everyone will reroll to an Evoker. It can hardly be compared to the aforementioned Artifacts, Garrisons, Azerite Armour, Covenants of which every player experienced at end game.

    If you are sitting there implying Dragonflight has more content than BfA then you are either lying or misinformed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    It doesn't matter how much content is in an expansion if it sucks. WoD for its notoriety and emptiness has a LOT of people saying that the classes were godly.

    Mists was raidlog + CM +dailies and is one of the most enjoyed expansions today.

    So far, DF looks like raidlog + M+ + Dailies. No different from MOP (inb4 6 paragraphs about scenarios)
    Are we at the point now where we are trying to say WoD was actually good? It doesn't matter if class design was godly - if the game is bereft of content then the class design argument loses authenticity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    They absolutely just dropped World Quests onto the Alpha without anything beforehand.

    How do I know this? Because I was one of the first people to actually document World Quests being added LMAO

    They were NOT discussed during Blizzcon 2015.

    And my point is this: We don't know what content Dragonflight has.

    Shadowlands had 4 different covenants with 10 different abilities each, had Torghast, had the Maw, had Legendaries, every covenant had it's unique feature. That doesn't mean anything if the content is shit.

    People complained about the latest expansions having too many different systems (which is what you would call features), and this is where it got us. But just because it doesn't have that doesn't mean it doesn't have content.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/blizzar...me-system/amp/

    Have you been caught out in a lie? Lol

    Also, your opinion on the quality of the content is just your opinion. Other players may have gotten pleasure from it. Your opinion does no discount what it is.
    Last edited by Santandame; 2022-06-27 at 02:45 PM.

  12. #59292
    Fluffy Parrot Marlamin's Avatar
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    Also, holy shit, stop bickering. I've barely seen any useful/interesting posts over the last few weeks.

    There's very little speculation/hype going on and people are once again just focusing on the past.

    If there's nothing to discuss, it's okay to not discuss anything. Dead thread > garbage thread.

  13. #59293
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    Note that they also refuse to acknowledge the existence of a new class, which WoD/BFA lack. I'm sure they won't say that's enough "content" though.
    A class is not content. A class is a feature. And I'd say BfA's allied races have been its biggest selling point by the sheer amount of new races we got.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    Also, holy shit, stop bickering. I've barely seen any useful/interesting posts over the last few weeks.
    That's Blizzard's fault though. Don't see how it can be blamed on the forum posters.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  14. #59294
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    I'm talking about amount of narrative content. Legion had 4 normal zones + 1 huuuge Suramar. Shadowlands just 4 normal zones (big as BfA ones, but ~35% of every zone is just for covenant campaigns). BfA had 6 big zones filled with side quests (kinda sad most of this content was wasted). As for content, I think class campaigns vs war campaigns (including zone intros for enemy continent) vs covenant campaigns pretty much even out.



    Amount of content is not same as amount of new features, I know hard concept. But I see I made mistake of not reading rest of your posts before responding to one.
    My point was in response to your "Legion in WoD or BfA camp". Literally made no sense because that wasn't the discussion. Likewise, should have known better when every post you make is vehemently defending the current product against any sort of criticism.

  15. #59295
    Fluffy Parrot Marlamin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    That's Blizzard's fault though. Don't see how it can be blamed on the forum posters.
    Yes, and that's why I said it's okay to not discuss anything if there's nothing to discuss. A dead thread beats a thread full of garbage arguments (like the current one) any day.
    Last edited by Marlamin; 2022-06-27 at 02:47 PM.

  16. #59296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post

    They were NOT discussed during Blizzcon 2015.
    ???
    1:04:25



  17. #59297
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Or don't blame anybody and just wait until something happens.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  18. #59298
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    My point was in response to your "Legion in WoD or BfA camp". Literally made no sense because that wasn't the discussion. Likewise, should have known better when every post you make is vehemently defending the current product against any sort of criticism.
    You can't fit single sentence into context of whole post? Not surprising if you see talking about pros and cons (it will blow your mind, but every single WoW iteration has plenty of both) as "defending current product against any sort of criticism". Sure buddy, DF has no content, enjoy your stay here.

  19. #59299
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    You can't fit single sentence into context of whole post? Not surprising if you see talking about pros and cons (it will blow your mind, but every single WoW iteration has plenty of both) as "defending current product against any sort of criticism". Sure buddy, DF has no content, enjoy your stay here.
    No one has said DF has no content. But sure, let's exaggerate events so they can be warped to fit your agenda. Appreciate the sentiment however. At this point in time, it's looking like I'll be enjoying my stay from the safety of 10.3.

  20. #59300
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    No one has said DF has no content. But sure, let's exaggerate events so they can be warped to fit your agenda. Appreciate the sentiment however. At this point in time, it's looking like I'll be enjoying my stay from the safety of 10.3.
    I'm sorry I exaggerated your

    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    But DF is still absolutely bereft of content compared to the previous three expansions.
    comment by saying you think DF has no content. Especially since you were never exxagerating my posts. I'm deeply ashamed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    Also, holy shit, stop bickering. I've barely seen any useful/interesting posts over the last few weeks.

    There's very little speculation/hype going on and people are once again just focusing on the past.

    If there's nothing to discuss, it's okay to not discuss anything. Dead thread > garbage thread.
    Ok bird, I'll stop out from respect for you.

    Still this is sorta kinda shitpost thread that is most active when we have no idea what's coming next.

    Do you think we have any chances for first public build for datamining this week? Or everything is too out of ordinary this time?
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2022-06-27 at 03:21 PM.

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