Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Revamp Man]

At this point, likely with the start of Alpha, albeit maybe purely based on datamining depending on if it's available or not, unless we get a preview post right before Alpha.

i will assume huge dump on alpha day

[Nymrohd]

I think the new class was usually on the earliest builts?

[Marlamin]

I think the new class was usually on the earliest builts?

If they want it to be done by prepatch it'll have to be (albeit the website is still saying it'll be playable "on or before launch" so they covered themselves just in case.

[Dracullus]

If they want it to be done by prepatch it'll have to be (albeit the website is still saying it'll be playable "on or before launch" so they covered themselves just in case.

Prepatch most likely will be just 3 weeks long like they intended for SL, they already said plan for event (which will include Evokers I guess) is 2 weeks. So pretty much everything must be ready for prepatch.

[ExiHext]

so season 4 runs from august to presumably late november if scaleface is still accurate
testing starting some time soon i would hope so we have more than 5 months of testing

it is definitely doable since theres fewer systems to test but still

I am not sure how often I still have to disagree on this, but two points:
1. We still don't know what kind of systems they add that weren't in the reveal, so I wouldn't talk about 'fewer systems'.
2. Talent trees alone will be a mess and I simply refuse to believe that they can fix them in 5 month when in past alpha cycles they were awfully slow with most changes. They oftentimes just worked on one or two classes each build.

I still do not see DF releasing this year.
That said I wouldn't be mad being wrong, it's just that I know how slow they are with such things.

[Nymrohd]

Prepatch most likely will be just 3 weeks long like they intended for SL, they already said plan for event (which will include Evokers I guess) is 2 weeks. So pretty much everything must be ready for prepatch.

I think I remember them actually saying it would only be two weeks this time? I could be wrong.

[Makorus]

I think I remember them actually saying it would only be two weeks this time? I could be wrong.

Correct.

Prepatch is planned to be two weeks, have a Level 60 revamp of the current Uldaman (so not the new dungeon) and Evokers.

- - - Updated - - -

I am not sure how often I still have to disagree on this, but two points:
1. We still don't know what kind of systems they add that weren't in the reveal, so I wouldn't talk about 'fewer systems'.
2. Talent trees alone will be a mess and I simply refuse to believe that they can fix them in 5 month when in past alpha cycles they were awfully slow with most changes. They oftentimes just worked on one or two classes each build.

I still do not see DF releasing this year.
That said I wouldn't be mad being wrong, it's just that I know how slow they are with such things.

I mean, your point two is kind of the crux to all of this, isn't it? Alpha/Beta cycles were always packed at the start and at the end (when they scrambled to get everything balanced), and dull in the middle with nothing really changing/getting fixed/getting balanced.

That's exactly why I think a shorter testing cycle is doable. All they have to do is not take 3 months to balance the classes based on feedback given early on like they always do.

[ExiHext]

All they have to do is not take 3 months to balance the classes based on feedback given early on like they always do.

But do you really really REALLY believe they are going to do it differently this time? When every experience screams that they won't?
As I said I would gladly be proven wrong, but I don't see any signs for this just yet. I'd rather say they show us the exact opposite at the moment.

[Makorus]

But do you really really REALLY believe they are going to do it differently this time? When every experience screams that they won't?
As I said I would gladly be proven wrong, but I don't see any signs for this just yet.

I mean, I would imagine they intend to. Them delaying the expansion would be a net-loss for them, because I don't think the reaction would be as it was for Shadowlands.

[Nymrohd]

Correct.

Prepatch is planned to be two weeks, have a Level 60 revamp of the current Uldaman (so not the new dungeon) and Evokers.

- - - Updated - - -



I mean, your point two is kind of the crux to all of this, isn't it? Alpha/Beta cycles were always packed at the start and at the end (when they scrambled to get everything balanced), and dull in the middle with nothing really changing/getting fixed/getting balanced.

That's exactly why I think a shorter testing cycle is doable. All they have to do is not take 3 months to balance the classes based on feedback given early on like they always do.

I think if you go far enough back, they were more gradual. I remember in the TBC beta, new zones and levels were released somewhat slowly. They were also far buggier than they are now; I don't remember the last time the entire server froze when we got to a new zone while back then there was a reason the No Man's Land debuff existed; you could crash everything if you tried to get to the zones that were not released. Really by the time we get beta a lot of things are at a very high level of polish.

[LordKharon]

I wonder if the new talent trees are really that complicated to implement in an at least ok state. If they map the current standard builds for each spec as a baseline onto the new trees and then add alternatives, would that be really hard to do for them? Yeah ppl would bitch and moan about that, but as a fallback if stuff happens it would be ok for me.

Also i expect a lot of the talent trees to change all through the expansion, release will only be the first iteration of that new system...

[Lady Atia]

Correct.

Prepatch is planned to be two weeks, have a Level 60 revamp of the current Uldaman (so not the new dungeon) and Evokers.

- - - Updated - - -



I mean, your point two is kind of the crux to all of this, isn't it? Alpha/Beta cycles were always packed at the start and at the end (when they scrambled to get everything balanced), and dull in the middle with nothing really changing/getting fixed/getting balanced.

That's exactly why I think a shorter testing cycle is doable. All they have to do is not take 3 months to balance the classes based on feedback given early on like they always do.

No, we will get the new Uldaman for pre-patch, not an upscaled old one. It's the same as with Karazhan back in Legion - they no longer replace old Dungeons but add a second wing as a revamp. Something they learned with Zul Gurub (I still want a timewalking version of the raid ...)

[Dracullus]

I think I remember them actually saying it would only be two weeks this time? I could be wrong.

Yes, two weeks for event means 3 weeks for whole pre-patch (well, 20 days for EU, expac is midnight Monday/Tuesday). First week is always for class changes. And fighting ton of bugs.

[Makorus]

No, we will get the new Uldaman for pre-patch, not an upscaled old one. It's the same as with Karazhan back in Legion - they no longer replace old Dungeons but add a second wing as a revamp. Something they learned with Zul Gurub (I still want a timewalking version of the raid ...)

I mean, the interview literally states that Uldaman will be a revamped Level 60 dungeon in the prepatch. They specifically say "Uldaman" and not "new wing of Uldaman" or whatever.

I am aware that the new dungeon will be a different wing.

[Nymrohd]

I am hoping Uldaman gets a full revamp as in both visual and storyline. Storyline because I hope we can get Archaedas back to ease my conscience and visual cause while very interesting it also looks like crap and really, vanilla Titan architecture just doesn't look like anything we saw later.

[Lady Atia]

I mean, the interview literally states that Uldaman will be a revamped Level 60 dungeon in the prepatch. They specifically say "Uldaman" and not "new wing of Uldaman" or whatever.

I am aware that the new dungeon will be a different wing.

That's pretty much a translation issue though, every other interview did state that we will get the new wing of Uldaman during the pre-patch (since Alextrasza will send us there to get information about the dragon isles or something). It's the same thing they did with the bombing of theramore back during MoP, or with the blackrock spires dungeon during WoD.

[Slybak]

I am not sure how often I still have to disagree on this, but two points:
1. We still don't know what kind of systems they add that weren't in the reveal, so I wouldn't talk about 'fewer systems'.
2. Talent trees alone will be a mess and I simply refuse to believe that they can fix them in 5 month when in past alpha cycles they were awfully slow with most changes. They oftentimes just worked on one or two classes each build.

Alpha/Beta length for each expansion (FF Alpha until release), from my best recollection and some sleuthing:

TBC: 5 months
WOTLK: 6 months
Cata: 6 months
MOP: 7 months
WOD: 5 months
Legion: 9 months
BFA: 6 months
SL: 7 months

It wouldn't be wildly beyond comprehension for it to release by the end of December if the first FF Alpha version lands within a week or so, but delaying for up to a month (like they did with SL) isn't out of the question. What's thrown people for a loop is that they've never announced a release date this early. Usually a release date is announced when its about 3 months away. Certainly never before Alpha.

Anyway the thing they likely want to avoid is repeating Legion, which led to a final content patch cycle for WoD that lasted for a total of 13 months. No one wants to still be doing Shadowlands content until March of 2023.

[Dracullus]

It wouldn't be wildly beyond comprehension for it to release by the end of December if the first FF Alpha version lands within a week or so, but delaying for up to a month (like they did with SL) isn't out of the question. What's thrown people for a loop is that they've never announced a release date this early. Usually a release date is announced when its about 3 months away. Certainly never before Alpha..

They didn't revealed release date, we always get estimated season on pre-order page (for example Legion/BfA before 23rd September, SL/DF before 31st December). But pre-order happened so late (9 months later than Shadowlands!) and December is pretty much out of question for release, so 15th or 22nd November release is almost certain...

... if they will be ready of course. Yes, historical data is against it, Alpha/Beta have to be concluded in 4-4.5 month. But here's the thing - it's not like deadline was revealed year ago (like with Warcraft 3 or SL) and we had no Alpha since then. We got this date NOW, almost right before Alpha. So I'm more in curiosity than panic mode.

We will see if Alpha is more advanced than usual. Key thing will be talents, I think no matter what they will release zone per build anyway to focus all feedback on single thing.

[Makorus]

That's pretty much a translation issue though, every other interview did state that we will get the new wing of Uldaman during the pre-patch (since Alextrasza will send us there to get information about the dragon isles or something). It's the same thing they did with the bombing of theramore back during MoP, or with the blackrock spires dungeon during WoD.

No other interview mentions the Prepatch + Uldaman thing.

[Revamp Man]

I just realized they kinda skipped a TW raid this time around
Normally when we get an expansion in TW we then get the raid for the next expansion and this time it was MoP...I was hoping to get my Lei shen trinket