1. #59701
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    And yet people managed to group and build communities just fine in early wow and every other game. Maybe stop blaming lack of effort on the availability of tools? It has never been easier to organize group or community things than it is today.
    Back then you didn't have so many tools and accessibility to do PU groups. Guilds were your only way into organized activities if you didn't have all day to spam /4.

    You don't manage a guild or a community if you don't see the need for such tools. Asking blizzard for them has zero downsides, no need to get aggressive
    Last edited by Skildar; 2022-07-03 at 10:54 PM.

  2. #59702
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Back then you didn't have so many tools and accessibility to do PU groups. Guilds were your only way into organized activities if you didn't have all day to spam /4.

    You don't manage a guild or a community if you don't see the need for such tools. Asking blizzard for them has zero downsides, no need to get aggressive
    So your argument is that the reason that you need unspecified tools to manage groups and communities is because there are so many tools to organize groups and communities that people have opted for more favorable methods?

    I feel the need to point out to you that if the only reason people were using guilds as an organizational structure in the past is that they were essentially forced to by virtue of the lack of other organizational options, and that those archaic structures are dying because people don't want to use them, then that's maybe a good reason to question why you need additional tools to attempt to revive interest in a structure that never had genuine interest in the first place.

    Again, this isn't a case of lack of tools. Your guild and or community isn't failing because it's just missing the right tool, it's failing because you've failed to convince people that being in that guild or community is something worth their time over a looser more casual approach. Asking Blizzard has downsides, because instead of pointlessly attempting to revive a failed social structure that people used because there was no other option, investing dev time in trying to bribe people back into the old way, those devs could instead be supporting the clearly player-favored pug and solo style.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2022-07-03 at 11:17 PM.

  3. #59703
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    So your argument is that the reason that you need unspecified tools to manage groups and communities is because there are so many tools to organize groups and communities that people have opted for more favorable methods?

    I feel the need to point out to you that if the only reason people were using guilds as an organizational structure in the past is that they were essentially forced to by virtue of the lack of other organizational options, and that those archaic structures are dying because people don't want to use them, then that's maybe a good reason to question why you need additional tools to attempt to revive interest in a structure that never had genuine interest in the first place.

    Again, this isn't a case of lack of tools. Your guild and or community isn't failing because it's just missing the right tool, it's failing because you've failed to convince people that being in that guild or community is something worth their time over a looser more casual approach. Asking Blizzard has downsides, because instead of pointlessly attempting to revive a failed social structure that people used because there was no other option, investing dev time in trying to bribe people back into the old way, those devs could instead be supporting the clearly player-favored pug and solo style.
    you're very confused and probably lack game experience on both the bad and the good of participating to communities and not. We've previously covered why it's interesting in previous posts, I'll just redirect you to these .

    On a side note, I've reported your message because twice you write aggressively and attack the person you respond to instead of engaging into a healthy conversation.

  4. #59704
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    you're very confused and probably lack game experience on both the bad and the good of participating to communities and not. We've previously covered why it's interesting in previous posts, I'll just redirect you to these .

    On a side note, I've reported your message because twice you write aggressively and attack the person you respond to instead of engaging into a healthy conversation.
    I have participated in many organizational structures and been witness to both good and bad approaches to guilds and communities. But really this is just a very poor attempt at deflection rather than addressing the arguments at hand.

    Pointing out the very apparent flaws in your logic and suggesting you look at the personal responsibility factor and evolving organization zeitgeist of multiplayer video games instead of blaming the failing of the archaic community structures you cling to on a lack of unnecessary new tools is not "attacking the person", that is called healthy conversation. I'm sorry that you take anything other than blind agreement as a personal attack.

  5. #59705
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    I'm a really big fan of the current demonology warlock. But if you want the spec to be able to do away with the imps, what would be the focus of the spec?
    I'd like it to be a mix of Aff and Destro, with a focus on a demon.

    Not even the FG. Demo should have it's spells bolstered as passive stuff. Immolate, Corr, CoA, then Shadowbolt, with shadow damage buffed by your demons debuff, for instance. I like the idea of hand of guldan and temporary demons, but imps and the corpse explosion feels more like a necromancer than a warlock

  6. #59706
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    this is the current design and it's garbage imo
    It's not dreadstalkers, tyrants, felguard, ect are all not imps.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  7. #59707
    Damn can't believe it's almost time for warcraft christmas. Alpha datamining with all the new models, characters, creatures, zones, props, etc. Dracthyr stuff. Evoker stuff. I love it so much.
    I'm super curious to see dracthyr customization, evoker spellbook and spell effects, and what characters will get new updated models <3.

  8. #59708
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    We are out of SoonTM territory. It’s time.

  9. #59709
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugnomo View Post
    Damn can't believe it's almost time for warcraft christmas. Alpha datamining with all the new models, characters, creatures, zones, props, etc. Dracthyr stuff. Evoker stuff. I love it so much.
    I'm super curious to see dracthyr customization, evoker spellbook and spell effects, and what characters will get new updated models <3.
    Same here. Given the flavor they gave Druids, DKs, and Priests in their talents, I'm really looking forward to the draconic-flavored abilities in the Evoker class.

  10. #59710
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Same here. Given the flavor they gave Druids, DKs, and Priests in their talents, I'm really looking forward to the draconic-flavored abilities in the Evoker class.
    Yeah me too! I'm really curious about the bronze magic side of it. Got a historian type character in my mind for a while and I really want to see if the bronze spell set would go well with it. I imagine it would. But yeah, it's just a different flavor of magic than what we're used to, really looking forward to it.

  11. #59711
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugnomo View Post
    Damn can't believe it's almost time for warcraft christmas. Alpha datamining with all the new models, characters, creatures, zones, props, etc. Dracthyr stuff. Evoker stuff. I love it so much.
    I'm super curious to see dracthyr customization, evoker spellbook and spell effects, and what characters will get new updated models <3.
    I am interested to see the bronze dragon themed abilities, as they were noticeably missing from the presentations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk

  12. #59712
    Did someone on Twitter say something? I'm not seeing any "news breaks" on WoWhead or here but the last few posts seem to be getting hyped up for alpha.

  13. #59713
    Herald of the Titans Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    Did someone on Twitter say something? I'm not seeing any "news breaks" on WoWhead or here but the last few posts seem to be getting hyped up for alpha.
    Just recent dev builds updating to 10.0 alongside a “Unknown Game (wow_beta)” popping up in people’s downloads last weekish. (Though it vanished pretty quickly.)

    That and with the 2022 release Alpha has got to be starting in early July given usual alpha/beta testing date ranges.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Chen isn't a Monk

  14. #59714
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Back then you didn't have so many tools and accessibility to do PU groups. Guilds were your only way into organized activities if you didn't have all day to spam /4.

    You don't manage a guild or a community if you don't see the need for such tools. Asking blizzard for them has zero downsides, no need to get aggressive
    I'm assuming the point was
    "There are tools to build groups and communities but you are ignoring them"

    - - - Updated - - -

    The priest trees give me hope
    WW Monk will have more single target abilities on one side and the aoe on the other
    I'm hoping chi explosion returns
    I'm also going to assume that the Clones will have a talent for targeting them possibly at the bottom
    Bone dust brew will likely remain
    Xuen will probably be down the middle

  15. #59715
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    On a side note, I've reported your message because twice you write aggressively and attack the person you respond to instead of engaging into a healthy conversation.
    How did it work out for you?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    It's not dreadstalkers, tyrants, felguard, ect are all not imps.
    We already had this kind of thing in MoP. You had Felguard and lots of imps. Not sure what's appealing with imp only, when for example Dreadstalkers offer AoE, and all demons count for Demonic Consumption, the bigger ones the better. Wonder if new talents will finally get rid o DeCon domination. Or rather, you will take it, but you will also be able to pick other options.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-07-04 at 05:54 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  16. #59716
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I have participated in many organizational structures and been witness to both good and bad approaches to guilds and communities. But really this is just a very poor attempt at deflection rather than addressing the arguments at hand.

    Pointing out the very apparent flaws in your logic and suggesting you look at the personal responsibility factor and evolving organization zeitgeist of multiplayer video games instead of blaming the failing of the archaic community structures you cling to on a lack of unnecessary new tools is not "attacking the person", that is called healthy conversation. I'm sorry that you take anything other than blind agreement as a personal attack.
    I know that having tools like Open Raid made it much easier for me to manage a community of raiders and organize groups. I have every reason to believe that if those tools were supported by Blizzard and better integrated into the game, they would remain active (and probably would have been far more active).

  17. #59717
    The Unstoppable Force Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    No way that's ever gonna happen.

    The reason it happened with the Customization one is because I would be very very surprised if there was even a small number of people buying that. It was probably worth the good faith over the minimal profits they get from it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Another player thing I hope they will implement at some point, even if its a modified version of that, is this Legacy Instance talent tree idea. Would actually make me play a lot more. The fact that we can't add appearances we can't use to our wardrobe is actually so fucking stupid. Every other MMO lets you do that.
    Yeah that's a sick idea too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    We’re not even ready for this coming week. It’s going to be grand.
    As in this monday-friday coming in a day or next week?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Yeees this would be glorious the only way to make it bette r would be if they all worked with implosion so you could get some truly huge booms.
    Lmao imagine the Imp mother being sucked in too.

  18. #59718
    Elemental Lord
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    Chance for even dataminable build today are veeery low, but I have hopes for "its this week, register for alpha chance" blue post. We will see in around 10 hours.

  19. #59719
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I have participated in many organizational structures and been witness to both good and bad approaches to guilds and communities. But really this is just a very poor attempt at deflection rather than addressing the arguments at hand.

    Pointing out the very apparent flaws in your logic and suggesting you look at the personal responsibility factor and evolving organization zeitgeist of multiplayer video games instead of blaming the failing of the archaic community structures you cling to on a lack of unnecessary new tools is not "attacking the person", that is called healthy conversation. I'm sorry that you take anything other than blind agreement as a personal attack.
    Once again, you could have just read past comments and understand that you're trying to put some shame and fail on me for an argument I didn't make...

    The statement that I've made is that : Managing a guild is complex because the tools aged and were not adapted to the evolving game and could be improved upon as people wanting to play together is always healthier than people playing through automatic group making or manual search. The latter will always look for efficiency and convenience over anything else and are naturally encouraged to get cynical and rude; they will result to taunt, harsh comments, being overly demanding and give up easily, people are volatile this way when it's all about their comfort and that there isn't any consequence to their behaviour.

    Now just take the example of irl friends wanting to raid together with a few other players. They create a guild but it doesn't give them any tool to invite people instead of characters in their calendar events, they cannot make repeating events in the calendar as well (then a person that plays multiple character will have to manage multiple calendars...), they don't have any system to manage recruitment to make their group visible to other players (there is a recruitment tool but it doesn't accomplish that), the objective part is not adapted to different guild investment, and so on...

    There isn't a question of me searching for blind agreement to my way of thought, it's just that you are responding to something I didn't say and punctuate every message you send with ad hominem. You might call it healthy conversation but it's not. I've taken the time out of respect to reiterate what the current situation is in the game, if you feel like these are just not the correct observations then please enlighten me.
    Last edited by Skildar; 2022-07-04 at 08:22 AM.

  20. #59720
    Will weapon specific talent builds like 2h frost exist in other classes??
    SMF fury
    2h enhancement
    Give me flavored builds blizz

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