Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Ferlion]

Everytime new stuff is added to the game, or any game, it creates bugs. That's how game developement works.

Sure, but those are the type of bugs internal teams exist to fix. There isn't likely to be any bugs interacting with systems that only pop up when you throw a thousand people all doing different things at it, because it's not system related.

[Xilurm]

Yes but since there are not a ton of borrowed powers, there is less to test, so less bugs, less iterations, etc etc

Might not have tons of borrowed powers but they're redoing the talent system completely, adding an entire new system of nagivation throughout the game (why do you think they're only keeping it for DF zones?)

Massive new zones that are apparently bigger than any previous zones in the game. Each mob in those zones has to be taken care of and made sure that it won't clip through a tree or the ground. What about all the dungeons and the raid, and every trash mob in them? And the bosses?

The programmers ain't gonna be sitting at their desk all day looking at the ceiling. They're working 8 hours a day for months on end staring at code and trying to make sure the game doesn't fall apart.

[allomgie]

Sure, but those are the type of bugs internal teams exist to fix. There isn't likely to be any bugs interacting with systems that only pop up when you throw a thousand people all doing different things at it, because it's not system related.

Have you ever quested on alpha/beta servers? Where are always progress breaking bugs and unforeseeable bottlenecks, there are reasons we get each zone after another. Also, they tend to experiment with new Quest types, World-Quest did evolve over time.

[Ferlion]

Have you ever quested on alpha/beta servers? Where are always progress breaking bugs and unforeseeable bottlenecks, there are reasons we get each zone after another. Also, they tend to experiment with new Quest types, World-Quest did evolve over time.

I've been in every alpha/beta since Wrath of the Lich King.

None of that is something that needs to be tested by players. Even with progress bottlenecks. Not only is it not something that needs to be tested by players, if Blizzard is going to continue with the "We are going to be more secretive with the PTR" approach, they are going to have to test that themselves.

[Veluren]

I'm just thinking, and I KNOW this is apple to oranges and likely to piss some people off, but FFXIV has never needed to do external testing, and there's only ever been maybe three-four times in the game's now 8-9 year lifespan it's resulted in a bug so bad it had to be fixed ASAP.

I really feel like Blizzard, with the money and manpower available to them, could probably do a bulk or all of their testing internally and still manage to release the game in a state that doesn't need too too much bug fixing, part of me (that might be a bit copium) wonders if that might not be a reason we've gone so long without alpha after saying the expansion was far along.

[Catastrophy349]

https://twitter.com/Zorbrix/status/1...P64f8vuKRe438w

[Ferlion]

I'm just thinking, and I KNOW this is apple to oranges and likely to piss some people off, but FFXIV has never needed to do external testing, and there's only ever been maybe three-four times in the game's now 8-9 year lifespan it's resulted in a bug so bad it had to be fixed ASAP.

I really feel like Blizzard, with the money and manpower available to them, could probably do a bulk or all of their testing internally and still manage to release the game in a state that doesn't need too too much bug fixing, part of me (that might be a bit copium) wonders if that might not be a reason we've gone so long without alpha after saying the expansion was far along.

They can, but Blizzard alpha/beta is generally huge press for them.

It's why they don't. OR didn't

[Revamp Man]

I'm just thinking, and I KNOW this is apple to oranges and likely to piss some people off, but FFXIV has never needed to do external testing, and there's only ever been maybe three-four times in the game's now 8-9 year lifespan it's resulted in a bug so bad it had to be fixed ASAP.

I really feel like Blizzard, with the money and manpower available to them, could probably do a bulk or all of their testing internally and still manage to release the game in a state that doesn't need too too much bug fixing, part of me (that might be a bit copium) wonders if that might not be a reason we've gone so long without alpha after saying the expansion was far along.

thing is SE has very responsive testing and development teams

blizz has devs thinking they know best and the testing teams get railed because they aren't devs

[rhorle]

thing is SE has very responsive testing and development teams blizz has devs thinking they know best and the testing teams get railed because they aren't devs

That is just bias showing. Both Blizzard and SE think they know best. They just go about testing in different ways and it isn't like test realms are unique to Blizzard or even created by Blizzard. I can also guarantee Blizzard included it because EverQuest, the top MMO, had it when WoW was released. It is hard to get rid of it now and public testing does still offer some valuable insights.

[Polybius]

This I have to agree with, esports is just not that interesting.

I chuckle every time corpo tries to push esports. First the failed pay per view event, then the paid spectators, and now incentives to watch streams.

It works better hosted by small communities.

[Revamp Man]

That is just bias showing. Both Blizzard and SE think they know best. They just go about testing in different ways and it isn't like test realms are unique to Blizzard or even created by Blizzard. I can also guarantee Blizzard included it because EverQuest, the top MMO, had it when WoW was released. It is hard to get rid of it now and public testing does still offer some valuable insights.

SE: thanks players for testing and listens to feedback

Blizz: Tells players they are wrong and the devs have it handled

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Thats an oversimplification dude.

[Kiria]

I chuckle every time corpo tries to push esports. First the failed pay per view event, then the paid spectators, and now incentives to watch streams.

It works better hosted by small communities.

Indeed, personally I have never shown any interest in esports or watching others play games.

[Revamp Man]

Thats an oversimplification dude.

just because i dont feel like going over every time devs or blues have gone the route of "we know better than you" just to come back later to change their tune to "we listened to your feedback and we agree" i will just point you to the blue post about the covenant lock removal and the paraagraph saying

"When it comes to the limitations on Covenant-switching, millions of players experienced Shadowlands for the first time through the lens of their Covenant of choice, and that would have not been possible had the choice carried less weight from the outset. Nevertheless, after the conclusion of the Chains of Domination campaign, the Covenants are united against the Jailer, and revisiting player feedback in that context has led us to re-evaluate our approach. In terms of the day-to-day player experience, the advantages of a rigid division between Covenants have diminished since Shadowlands launched, while the downsides (feeling disadvantaged in certain types of content, or having to choose between mechanical advantages and aesthetics) have only grown. That balance of factors no longer justifies the original limitations on Covenant-switching, so in 9.1.5 we’re looking to provide a way to circumvent them."

which is harmless if they didnt say since alpha "no no its meaningful choice" and in an interview Watcher said "there is no ripcord we arent going to be making that change" they literally ignored feedback because covenant campaigns. There is literally nothing else that the covenants effected outside of the campaign.

[Catastrophy349]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzar...-adding-327586

[Revamp Man]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzar...-adding-327586

my alts shall be ready with all of the movement speed gear

[Ferlion]

just because i dont feel like going over every time devs or blues have gone the route of "we know better than you" just to come back later to change their tune to "we listened to your feedback and we agree" i will just point you to the blue post about the covenant lock removal and the paraagraph saying

"When it comes to the limitations on Covenant-switching, millions of players experienced Shadowlands for the first time through the lens of their Covenant of choice, and that would have not been possible had the choice carried less weight from the outset. Nevertheless, after the conclusion of the Chains of Domination campaign, the Covenants are united against the Jailer, and revisiting player feedback in that context has led us to re-evaluate our approach. In terms of the day-to-day player experience, the advantages of a rigid division between Covenants have diminished since Shadowlands launched, while the downsides (feeling disadvantaged in certain types of content, or having to choose between mechanical advantages and aesthetics) have only grown. That balance of factors no longer justifies the original limitations on Covenant-switching, so in 9.1.5 we’re looking to provide a way to circumvent them."

which is harmless if they didnt say since alpha "no no its meaningful choice" and in an interview Watcher said "there is no ripcord we arent going to be making that change" they literally ignored feedback because covenant campaigns. There is literally nothing else that the covenants effected outside of the campaign.

Them having a vision and sticking with it is not the same as not listening to feedback. Covenants WERE a meaningful choice. It is 100% players who decided to "go with the numerical best", which is asinine. A covenant choice is not the reason you failed any content. But players decided they need to operate at 100% efficiency in all content at all times, which is stupid. It's the exact opposite of what builds are supposed to be.

Blizzard needs to break players out of that mentality. Not foster it.

[Revamp Man]

Them having a vision and sticking with it is not the same as not listening to feedback. Covenants WERE a meaningful choice. It is 100% players who decided to "go with the numerical best", which is asinine. A covenant choice is not the reason you failed any content. But players decided they need to operate at 100% efficiency in all content at all times, which is stupid. It's the exact opposite of what builds are supposed to be.

Blizzard needs to break players out of that mentality. Not foster it.

it is not about min maxing
they gave 4 storylines
they gave 8 abilities
you couldnt play with these new toys because they decided it was a meaningful choice
the testers said "hey this feels bad"
the forums said "hey this feels bad"
blizzard said "nah this is fine but just in case we do have something planned if needed so you can swap at any time"
they were then asked if they were going to put in that system and the response was "that system doesnt exist and we arent going to change it"

certain covenant abilities work for one spec but dont make sense for another but because they wanted the meaningful choice you were locked for two weeks

and lets not forget that SL is the first expansion since WoD that you couldnt skip the intro scenario for months

[rhorle]

SE: thanks players for testing and listens to feedback Blizz: Tells players they are wrong and the devs have it handled

Blizzard does listen to feedback. Listening to feedback doesn't require them to do everything a player demands. Not to mention the conflicting demands from different groups of players. It also ignores how people complain about the things SE does as so the only difference here is your bias.

[Revamp Man]

Blizzard does listen to feedback. Listening to feedback doesn't require them to do everything a player demands. Not to mention the conflicting demands from different groups of players. It also ignores how people complain about the things SE does as so the only difference here is your bias.

so the devs dont tell players "no you dont understand this there is no problem" only to change it months later claiming that they agree with the same feedback??