Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

Not really an arbitrary definition, just the literal one.

The literal definition of the original word is someone who accomplishes feats. Those feats do not necessarily have to be physical.

[Hitei]

The literal definition of the original word is someone who accomplishes feats. Those feats do not necessarily have to be physical.

And you might have a point if, you know, we were speaking ancient Greek and not English. "Dance" comes from a word that originally meant stretch, but that doesn't mean anyone who is stretching is a dancer.

The word means someone who is an active doer of physical sports or activities, or someone who is otherwise very physically fit.

[Revamp Man]

And you might have a point if, you know, we were speaking ancient Greek and not English. "Dance" comes from a word that originally meant stretch, but that doesn't mean anyone who is stretching is a dancer.

The word means someone who is an active doer of physical sports or activities, or someone who is otherwise very physically fit.

Playing WoW is as physical as chess

[Hitei]

Playing WoW is as physical as chess

Yes. i.e. barely; a far cry from athletics or athletes.

[rhorle]

Not really an arbitrary definition, just the literal one.

That entire depends on what dictionary you use. For example merriam-webster defines it as ": a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina". E-sports certainly requires agility and stamina though not strength. Are those traits manifesting in different ways they some sports? Certainly. And like I said the US government offers "Athlete" visas for qualifying e-sports players.

So even if you are some originalist to the English language the world is moving beyond such narrow definitions. Holding on to it just creates division for the sake of it because there is nothing lost by including e-sports players as athletes.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/athlete
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/...erican/athlete
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/...nglish/athlete

The Olympics are even testing the waters on e-sports with "events" prior to the the main olympics and e-sports in their regional events like the Asian Games

https://olympics.com/en/news/fifa-pu...ian-games-2022
https://olympics.com/en/featured-new...u-need-to-know

The Olympic 2025 roadmap also includes "- Encourage the development of virtual sports and further engage with video gaming communities" https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-ex...oadmap-to-2025

[schwarzkopf]

Chess is recognized by the International Olympic Commitee as a sport and so is bridge

Makes no difference to me if some large organisation made a mistake, I was just stating a fact.

[klaps_05]

So then Developers don't have to always listen to players which is something you've been implying they have to do.

Which also implies that every time shit is sideways and they dont do anything, they are right. I would prefer devs who always listen to players who are leaders in their fields as at least the past 6 years have been suffering through multiple patches with broken shit ingame only for it to be fixed months later or left in until revamped even later on.

[Marlamin]

We've hit the point of the cycle where we argue about the definition of a word of an unrelated topic for an entire page.

If anything that's the biggest singular piece of proof that Alpha will hit in the next week. It fits perfectly in the cycle and the cycle doesn't lie.

Praise be.

[Xilurm]

Which also implies that every time shit is sideways and they dont do anything, they are right. I would prefer devs who always listen to players who are leaders in their fields as at least the past 6 years have been suffering through multiple patches with broken shit ingame only for it to be fixed months later or left in until revamped even later on.

Aren't current devs past WoW players? And look where that brought us.

[Lahis]

I just want to see the Mage talent tree...

Only few more months!

[Xilurm]

Only few more months!

What are the chances the talent trees won't be present in Alpha though?

[Nymrohd]

So what do you all think we will get for WoW in Blizzcon 2023?
Let's say DF releases 29/11. If we go with a Legion cadence of patches (as we should), Blizzcon will happen about a week after the RWF finishes for the 10.2 raid. It can very well include both a 10.3 and 11.0 announcement. Blizzcon 2024 will be right before the 30 year anniversary of the WoW franchise and the 20 year anniversary of WoW; 11.0 could well release at that date (it would be a Saturday which is messy but we are talking about a massive anniversary).

I'll say this, 11.0 will be the last expansion where I will have any hope for a world revamp. If it doesn't happen there for the 20 year anniversary it won't happen.

[Hitei]

That entire depends on what dictionary you use. For example merriam-webster defines it as ": a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina". E-sports certainly requires agility and stamina though not strength. Are those traits manifesting in different ways they some sports? Certainly. And like I said the US government offers "Athlete" visas for qualifying e-sports players.

So even if you are some originalist to the English language the world is moving beyond such narrow definitions. Holding to it just creates hate for the sake of it because there is nothing lost by including e-sports players as athletes.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/athlete
1. One who participates in physical exercise or sports, especially in competitive events.
2. One possessing the requisite strength, agility, and endurance for success in sports: a natural athlete.
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/...erican/athlete
1) someone who is good at sports, and takes part in sports competitions
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/...nglish/athlete
B1) a person who is very good at sports or physical exercise, especially one who competes in organized events:

The Olympics are even testing the waters on e-sports with "events" prior to the the main olympics and e-sports in their regional events like the Asian Games https://olympics.com/en/news/fifa-pu...ian-games-2022

I don't know why you're disagreeing with me while literally just providing more evidence.

Sure, if you completely bastardize what "physical strength, agility, or stamina" means into pseudo-metaphorical equivalents wherein anything fits within those categories, then e-sports "certainly requires agility and stamina".

Why don't we go ahead and apply those same rules to other things?

Oh look, a college professor, who has to have significant stamina to stand all day giving lectures? Athlete.
What's this? A line worker in a factor who has to quickly unfold boxes and set them on the conveyor belt for their entire shift? That requires a lot of agility and stamina. Athlete.
An Amazon delivery driver? Carrying all those packages all day? Trying to meet those quotas so they don't get cut. Strength and stamina. Athlete.
A data entry worker at a corporate HQ. Accurately, quickly hitting all those keystrokes the exact same as an e-sports player, all day long? Agility and stamina. Athlete.


Do you think that construction crews, crabbers on crab boats, drillers on oil rigs, surgery staff, stockers at grocery stores, waiters and bartenders, firemen, door dash and uber eats delivery freelancers, dog walkers, gardeners and nearly every other labor job in existence aren't using "stamina", "strength" and "agility" 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week?

Words have specific meanings. You can pretend otherwise, but if you walk up to a professional e-sports player, and they ask you "what do you do?" and you say "Oh I'm a professional athelete", do you think they're going to say "Oh, what e-sports team?" No. Even they are going to go "What sport?" Because the word is very clearly understood to be inherently tied to physical fitness. I don't even know how this is an argument. You guys are just lying to yourselves, because you know what "athlete" means, and you understand that attempts to use it to refer to e-sports competitors are just a poorly thought out, roundabout effort to surmmount the perception gap between actual sports and e-sports when it comes to professionalism and seriousness of the activity.

Your efforts would be better invested in trying to make people take e-sports more seriously than in trying to pretend a word means something other than its meaning, and something so overly broad that the word loses any meaning at all.

The IOC (if they manage to stop being a corrupt for 10 minutes) could make cake baking competitions a regional event, an activity that requires agility and stamina. Cake bakers still aren't gonna be athletes.

[Xilurm]

So what do you all think we will get for WoW in Blizzcon 2023?
Let's say DF releases 29/11. If we go with a Legion cadence of patches (as we should), Blizzcon will happen about a week after the RWF finishes for the 10.2 raid. It can very well include both a 10.3 and 11.0 announcement. Blizzcon 2024 will be right before the 30 year anniversary of the WoW franchise and the 20 year anniversary of WoW; 11.0 could well release at that date (it would be a Saturday which is messy but we are talking about a massive anniversary).

I'll say this, 11.0 will be the last expansion where I will have any hope for a world revamp. If it doesn't happen there for the 20 year anniversary it won't happen.

They can release it on Friday instead.

Having a 11.0 announcement is pretty much a given. They always happen every two years. I wonder if they will actually do a 10.3 though.

[Lahis]

What are the chances the talent trees won't be present in Alpha though?

They 100% can launch the Alpha without all classes.

Or we will just wait few months for all trees to be revealed before they launch the alpha.

[Nymrohd]

What are the chances the talent trees won't be present in Alpha though?

Very possible to have gradual class releases.

- - - Updated - - -

They can release it on Friday instead.

Having a 11.0 announcement is pretty much a given. They always happen every two years. I wonder if they will actually do a 10.3 though.

They did it for 8.0/7.3 I think.

[Nyel]

Where are the "today is the day, I can feel it" posts? Too early?

[Xilurm]

Very possible to have gradual class releases.

- - - Updated - - -



They did it for 8.0/7.3 I think.

No I mean if there's actually going to be a 10.3 patch, or if will stop at 10.2 like they did with SL.

[Nymrohd]

No I mean if there's actually going to be a 10.3 patch, or if will stop at 10.2 like they did with SL.

If they want to get egged on BlizzCon 2023 sure.

[Xilurm]

They 100% can launch the Alpha without all classes.

Or we will just wait few months for all trees to be revealed before they launch the alpha.

First one is much more likely. I reckon the majority of players don't follow Alpha/Beta news at all, and the only sort of news they get is probably from the official WoW site or twitter.