Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Catastrophy349]

I love when people tell others how “they” should be having fun in a video game or why the video game “they” enjoy is bad. Thanks for your opinion but I’m still going to be optimistic and enjoy it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

People hated on Titanforging and AP, but these things kept the game alive and fresh. Once your character progression slows down to a near standstill, the game dies.

I don't really think those two things kept the game alive and fresh nearly as much as you think. Like christ titanforging barely phased me like at all. AP wanes over the expansion so again....


Your argument is very weak. I do not miss Titanforging..like at all in Shadowlands. AP? Nah, even in BFA it didn't do too much.

I'm just being realistic, but I don't mind smoking some copium myself.

No you aren't, you are just telling others what you think to be reality but isn't under the guise of realism.

[Catastrophy349]

I'm just being realistic, but I don't mind smoking some copium myself.

HUFF: The copium is strong in this one!

[Makorus]

Won't happen.

It'll be like in Shadowlands, the first month will be cool, you'll want to log in daily and have stuff to do.

Then you've upgraded all your M+ gear with valor and the only thing left to do is do your weekly keys, raidlog and wait until next reset to have a chance at an upgrade. Repeat this for 5-6 months and have "fun".

People hated on Titanforging and AP, but these things kept the game alive and fresh. Once your character progression slows down to a near standstill, the game dies.

People like to think they're above their carrot on a stick and wouldn't fall for it.

They are not. Players need it. "You think that you don't, but you do"

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Won't happen.

It'll be like in Shadowlands, the first month will be cool, you'll want to log in daily and have stuff to do.

Then you've upgraded all your M+ gear with valor and the only thing left to do is do your weekly keys, raidlog and wait until next reset to have a chance at an upgrade. Repeat this for 5-6 months and have "fun".

People hated on Titanforging and AP, but these things kept the game alive and fresh. Once your character progression slows down to a near standstill, the game dies.

I disagree. I think the game can maintain interest and activity with RPG elements and consistent raid releases alone. I ought to remind you that this is about the point where the nostalgia threshold occurs—when a hated mechanic becomes interpreted positively through the lens of nostalgia.

I'd say that sufficient outdoor content and initial content sincerely would carry the game for a bit—only the most excessive completionists or no-lifers would likely wear through a sufficient amount of content too quickly.

Of course, this is where I think skepticism should be applied—it's wholly up to whether or not Catastrophy's copium high reflects reality, which I fear it may not. The keyword I have been using is "sufficiency", and I don't think that sufficiency is something Blizzard has provided thus far. I will grant them some legitimately interesting concepts for new systems, and further add to that how I'm legitimately excited to see old talents return, but it's very much up in the air if these systems will be any good. Will Dragonriding be something fun and dynamic that evolves as you explore release content, or will it be a tedious grind for appearances that will become a chore over time? Will the open-world content be as banal as Shadowlands, or a return to at least the standards of Legion, with legitimately fun and interesting world quests and storylines, with sufficient reason to come back for further content? These questions are those that can only really be observed in practice, as we simply do not have enough information to make assumptions (well, save for character generalizations about Blizzard, which certainly are inauspicious).

Another element is in the mindset of the players—one has to realistically take a cynical approach to this, which you are smart in doing. Blizzard players aren't the types to stop and smell the flowers, that much I'll admit, but if they can be given tantalizing enough of a shiny waved in front of their faces for any extended period of time, or with enough shinies integrated adequately into the aforementioned outdoor content, there is a possibility to herd them into enjoyment and retention.

[Catastrophy349]

I understand why people are pessimistic. Look at Shadowlands (and to some, BFA (although I liked BFA)). However, we don’t even have gameplay, yet. IF after Alpha/Beta the game looks like crap, fine, I’ll succumb and get on your level. Until then, I’m optimistic because that’s how I am. I refuse to hate something I know little about.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

HUFF: The copium is strong in this one!

Frankly, I do think we all owe you a degree of credit for remaining a source of hopium in this trying environment. Not everybody's particularly excited, and prospects seem somewhat gloomy in many areas. However, there's plenty to have a cautious sense of optimism about this expansion, so we may as well entertain the possibility.

[Dracullus]

Being cynical is not being realistic. Realistic approach is analizing what you (or community) hated about SL and then judging how likely is for DF to fix it. Based on informations, not "devs hate me and whole game" bias.

[Catastrophy349]

I'll remain copium/hopium/cheerful until I otherwise see a reason not to.

[Nyel]

I understand why people are pessimistic. Look at Shadowlands (and to some, BFA (although I liked BFA)). However, we don’t even have gameplay, yet. IF after Alpha/Beta the game looks like crap, fine, I’ll succumb and get on your level. Until then, I’m optimistic because that’s how I am. I refuse to hate something I know little about.

I mean... everything what you said can be applied to each and every single expansion. There's nothing in Dragonflight that makes it the exception to the rule.

Bigger team? Check, we already had that before and look where it ended.

Focus on basic systems? Check, we had that before and it didn't last long.

Less new dungeons at first is somehow more and better? Uhm... you're still doing the exact same thing just in a different environment.

Quality over quantity? Check, WoD is calling (granted, gameplay was at a peak during that time though).

The open world stuff: what you said, we haven't seen anything from it. So it can be basically exactly what we have now for open world content - or it can be different. To think they'll reinvent how open world content in WoW works is very much copium though.

I think we all need to tame and adjust our expectations. While many are already dooming this expansion, you're overglorifying of how it could be - and I'm just sure the game won't hold up to that, because it's just not possible.

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I'll remain copium/hopium/cheerful until I otherwise see a reason not to.

Shouldn't it be vice versa? Because I really don't see any evidence or proof to base your copium/hopium on, simply because Blizzard hasn't showed us anything in that regard. 100% talk, 0% action.

[Catastrophy349]

I mean... everything what you said can be applied to each and every single expansion. There's nothing in Dragonflight that makes it the exception to the rule.

Bigger team? Check, we already had that before and look where it ended.

Focus on basic systems? Check, we had that before and it didn't last long.

Less new dungeons at first is somehow more and better? Uhm... you're still doing the exact same thing just in a different environment.

Quality over quantity? Check, WoD is calling (granted, gameplay was at a peak during that time though).

The open world stuff: what you said, we haven't seen anything from it. So it can be basically exactly what we have now for open world content - or it can be different. To think they'll reinvent how open world content in WoW works is very much copium though.

I think we all need to tame and adjust our expectations. While many are already dooming this expansion, you're overglorifying of how it could be - and I'm just sure the game won't hold up to that, because it's just not possible.

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Shouldn't it be vice versa? Because I really don't see any evidence or proof to base your copium/hopium on, simply because Blizzard hasn't showed us anything in that regard. 100% talk, 0% action.

You’re still missing my entire analysis/point. From everything that has been said/shown, that includes written interviews, YouTube interviews, announcement video, talent trees, and profession blog post, I am excited for Dragonflight. Is there A LOT that has not been shown/told? 100%. Is there more NOT being said than previous expansions by this point in development? 100%. However, I am speaking from MY (meaning me and no one else) perspective. From what I have read up on, I’m excited and anxious to see where it goes.

[Nyel]

You’re still missing my entire analysis/point. From everything that has been said/shown, that includes written interviews, YouTube interviews, announcement video, talent trees, and profession blog post, I am excited for Dragonflight. Is there A LOT that has not been shown/told? 100%. Is there more NOT being said than previous expansions by this point in development? 100%. However, I am speaking from MY (meaning me and no one else) perspective. From what I have read up on, I’m excited and anxious to see where it goes.

I'm not questioning your perspective, I'm questioning on what it is based on. That's why I said 100% talk and 0% action (in regards to Blizzard). You can feel that way, but Blizzard has given us very little yet to get the feeling you seem to get.

[Catastrophy349]

Also, I don’t understand this point you made, “Less new dungeons at first is somehow more and better? Uhm... you're still doing the exact same thing just in a different environment.” Could you explain??

We are still getting 8 new dungeons in Dragonflight (Normal, Heroic, Mythic 0). We are simply getting only 4 in S1 M+ with 4 older dungeons then the other 4 with another 4 older dungeons in S2. How is that fewer dungeons? How is that doing the same thing over and over again? In S2, you are doing 8 completely different dungeons than you did in S1?

I’m so lost.

[Nyel]

Re: the amount of content in Dragonflight...

Honestly, here's what would make me perfectly happy:

• The baseline is fine. Talent trees worked out, professions are in a good state, and so on.
• Dracthyr Evoker is fun and looks good. I'm playing a female one as my semi-main alongside my Human Paladin.
• The Dragon Isles are beautiful and inviting. Unlike the Shadowlands with its depressing zones, it feels lovely to goof around here. Immersive, atmospheric, ambient, etc. Good music of course.
• Transmogs and potential new character customization options are good.
• Loot is fun.
• Patches arrive at a decent pace, and the story doesn't move with a snail's pace anymore.

That's it. I'm not demanding anything fancy. Just give me good basic WoW-experience for the next two years.

I think these two points will make or break the experience. If they can give the Dragon Isles this majestic and massive open world feeling and if the pace of content releases (yes, Legion-like) is decent, this expansion pretty much won't be able to fail due to how basic and uncontroversial most of it is. If the Dragon Isles are just another lame ass continent in the usual sense and if the release schedule is still 6-7 months for each major content patch, this expansion will just players bore to death.

[Catastrophy349]

I'm not questioning your perspective, I'm questioning on what it is based on. That's why I said 100% talk and 0% action (in regards to Blizzard). You can feel that way, but Blizzard has given us very little yet to get the feeling you seem to get.

So, here’s my question to you specifically: What has Blizzard/WoW done (or not done) for you in the past that has you so pessimistic, worried, and/or not interested in Dragonflight simply based on what was shown? I understand that you and I may have different perspectives and play the game differently (from my perspective, other than SL (which I still enjoyed aspects of), I enjoyed every expansion), but what’s the issue?

[Nyel]

Also, I don’t understand this point you made, “Less new dungeons at first is somehow more and better? Uhm... you're still doing the exact same thing just in a different environment.” Could you explain??

We are still getting 8 new dungeons in Dragonflight (Normal, Heroic, Mythic 0). We are simply getting only 4 in S1 M+ with 4 older dungeons then the other 4 with another 4 older dungeons in S2. How is that fewer dungeons? How is that doing the same thing over and over again? In S2, you are doing 8 completely different dungeons than you did in S1?

I’m so lost.

4 old dungeons for season 1 is 4 new dungeons less for season 1. An old dungeon is still just another piece of old content brought up again. You mentioned the item grind of the new expansion's dungeons as a reason why this new system is better (?) because we grind 4 new dungeons just later on and not instantly and I just said it doesn't change anything because all you do is still grind the same items from the same dungeons.

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So, here’s my question to you specifically: What has Blizzard/WoW done (or not done) for you in the past that has you so pessimistic, worried, and/or not interested in Dragonflight simply based on what was shown? I understand that you and I may have different perspectives and play the game differently (from my perspective, other than SL (which I still enjoyed aspects of), I enjoyed every expansion), but what’s the issue?

BfA and Shadowlands. I was in your optimistic position towards Legion and Blizzard lived up to it and then they released two god awful expansion in a row where they showed that they simply do not care about player feedback (or care, but react to it 6-12 months too late). That's why it's simply beyond me how somebody can be so optimistic about the Dragonflight alpha when BfA and SL alpha was controversial, to say the least.

Blizzard hasn't shown any proof (100% talk, as I said) of why we should be excited for Dragonflight. That's why I don't get this over-the-top optimism. If alpha shows us how spectacular DF will be, I'll be happy, but until then I stay fairly sceptical, solely based on BfA and Shadowlands.

[Marlamin]

I think it's fine to be optimistic, there's more than enough pessimism and negativity to go around already.

[Catastrophy349]

4 old dungeons for season 1 is 4 new dungeons less for season 1. An old dungeon is still just another piece of old content brought up again. You mentioned the item grind of the new expansion's dungeons as a reason why this new system is better (?) because we grind 4 new dungeons just later on and not instantly and I just said it doesn't change anything because all you do is still grind the same items from the same dungeons.

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BfA and Shadowlands. I was in your optimistic position towards Legion and Blizzard lived up to it and then they released two god awful expansion in a row where they showed that they simply do not care about player feedback (or care, but react to it 6-12 months too late). That's why it's simply beyond me how somebody can be so optimistic about the Dragonflight alpha when BfA and SL alpha was controversial, to say the least.

Blizzard hasn't shown any proof (100% talk, as I said) of why we should be excited for Dragonflight. That's why I don't get this over-the-top optimism. If alpha shows us how spectacular DF will be, I'll be happy, but until then I stay fairly sceptical, solely based on BfA and Shadowlands.

That makes sense. And you’re right, 100% talk with no action (so far) when it comes to Dragonflight. Here’s some interesting information: while I am optimistic as hell for Dragonflight based on what they’ve said (again, talk not action), I still HAVE NOT preordered Dragonflight (for all the reasons you mentioned). Personally, I’m waiting for Alpha/Beta to see how their “talk” does or doesn’t turn into “action”, then I’ll decide whether or not to preorder.

[Dracullus]

4 old dungeons for season 1 is 4 new dungeons less for season 1. An old dungeon is still just another piece of old content brought up again. You mentioned the item grind of the new expansion's dungeons as a reason why this new system is better (?) because we grind 4 new dungeons just later on and not instantly and I just said it doesn't change anything because all you do is still grind the same items from the same dungeons.

It's better because you will always have 8 different dungeons when next season start. They will make new 8 dungeons anyway and you will explore them all first on Mythic 0. This is not confirmed, but I don't see them making 4 dungeons for 10.1.

Of course main potential problem is season length. If season will last 5 months like S3 it will be great, (estimated 3 months for S4 would be too short) if season will last 7-8 months like S1/S2 it will be shit. So rotation is great idea, but dungeons must you know, rotate on regular basis.

BfA and Shadowlands. I was in your optimistic position towards Legion and Blizzard lived up to it and then they released two god awful expansion in a row where they showed that they simply do not care about player feedback (or care, but react to it 6-12 months too late).

Here we go with hyperbole again. Truly "god awful" expansion won't bring people for next expansion. I don't think even you would stay discussing game that you truly perceive as "god awful".

[Makorus]

They have been very quick to jump on player feedback since 9.1, more so from 9.2 forwards.

To me, that is action, and not talk.

Then again, to you, nothing would be good enough anyway.