Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Grimmy17]

Can someone explain to me what the point of work orders is? The item might aswell just be BOE, no?

What makes it different, or meaningful?

I think it's the engagement of the system that's the important factor here - there's tangible interaction with a crafting system (for both the recipient and the crafter). That's kinda the idea in my personal opinion.

Sure items can just be BoE, but that eliminates 5-6 steps from professions which are being revamped. Evan taking a que from WoW classic, there was a lot of buzz on the server when someone got a targeted pattern. The crafter didn't just slap a bunch up on the AH - the interaction and gathering of the mats was part of the fun

[Catastrophy349]

Can someone explain to me what the point of work orders is? The item might aswell just be BOE, no?

What makes it different, or meaningful?

Work orders allow the following:

1). You can find a crafter on the server through the AH UI as opposed to searching through trade/LFG chat, forums, guild chat, friend, etc.

2). You can get gear crafted using soul bound materials from either you, the crafter, or both of you

3). The gear that is crafted is soul bound (I think?). Therefore, you don’t have to worry about people using WoW tokens for gold then purchasing the gear (BoE)

[Lady Atia]

Can someone explain to me what the point of work orders is? The item might aswell just be BOE, no?

What makes it different, or meaningful?

My guess is that it's basically replacing the mission table stuff - you will only be able to do so many work orders per day and different work orders will take a different amount of time. And yeah, interaction with other players aswell as different specializations will also play a part in it.

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In other news, has anyone tested the creation catalyst with season 4 items on the PTR? What tint will they have? Everything mythic since it's higher ilvl than we currently have, or will it be back to giving lfr/nh/hc/mythic transmog for different ilvl ranges?

[Nyel]

I enjoyed both the brew and the nightfae ability. In generell I think they should try to keep as many of the covenant abilities as possible, even if it's just to avoid the major problem of borrowed power - losing it after you had fun with it for some time.

They Nightfae ability was just incredibly beautiful, I'd be sad if we lose that animation. How it was used in combat was... something else.

[Sondrelk]

Work orders allow the following:

1). You can find a crafter on the server through the AH UI as opposed to searching through trade/LFG chat, forums, guild chat, friend, etc.

2). You can get gear crafted using soul bound materials from either you, the crafter, or both of you

3). The gear that is crafted is soul bound (I think?). Therefore, you don’t have to worry about people using WoW tokens for gold then purchasing the gear (BoE)

The soulbound materials I think is the main point. It allows crafted gear to be powerful without making crafting professions mandatory for hardcore raiders.
BoE have to be weaker as everyone can use them, and basic rules of supply and demand makes them extremely available extremely fast.

By making a crucial component BoE, and work orders capable of "trading" soulbound items you both get a flourishing market with no need for everyone making things themselves, but also let's those items be on par, if not better than instances gear without massive restrictions.

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Yeah, I would rather have them replace the normal chakram with wild spirits next build.

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Yeah but I would have picked it anyways. Mythic Halondrus progress was soooo unfun without it. The venthyr arrow just felt like another random dot shot instead of a cool ability that you have to plan around.

Honestly, I feel like the Death Chakram was added solely to have even a single covenant ability carried over. Its not really all that different from the regular Chakram, and the only tangible difference is that it increases physical damage taken. In theory the Death Chakram should even be better in both ST and smaller groups of enemies, with the regular Chakram probably only being significantly better in mass AoE.

Flayed Shot would probably have been a better fit, but MM basically got something similar with Deadeye so that point is moot.
A reskin of Wild Spirits where you command your beasts to attack every single time you do would be great though, and MM seems to get lots of Crit support, so maybe a reskin of Resonating Arrow for them.

[Makabreska]

Work orders allow the following:

1). You can find a crafter on the server through the AH UI as opposed to searching through trade/LFG chat, forums, guild chat, friend, etc.

2). You can get gear crafted using soul bound materials from either you, the crafter, or both of you

3). The gear that is crafted is soul bound (I think?). Therefore, you don’t have to worry about people using WoW tokens for gold then purchasing the gear (BoE)

And you can basically list the order and log out.

[Catastrophy349]

WARNING: I snorted a HUGE dose of copium/hopium before writing this post.

I was thinking about this question in my head today:

Does Dragonflight have enough content for me (keyword is me)?

Here are my quick-fire thoughts:

Dragonflight has fewer “systems” and variations of “borrowed power” compared to recent expansions. However, this could be great for me (again, the keyword is me). Think about it: Who does not prefer quality OVER quantity?

IF: Dragonriding is a deep enough system that promotes customization, exploration, and outdoor activities/challenges, this can persuade me to log-in day in and day out for some fun content. Think of the customization as comparable to Legion Artifact Weapon Appearances (you get to show off your cool dragon cosmetics based on what challenges/activities you completed in the game). Awesome right?

IF: Professions are fun, interactive, and promote exploration of the world through outdoor AND/OR instanced content, this can be really fun.

IF: We get 8 new dungeons in Dragonflight, but only 4 of them are accessible during M+ S1, and the other 4 are accessible during M+ S2, this can be really interesting because what’s a HUGE concern with M+ gearing? You are grinding for the SAME gear, every season just at a higher ilvl and from the same dungeons. Now, you get 8 completely different dungeons in S1 (4 Dragonflight/4 older), 8 completely different dungeons in S2 (following same pattern as S1), and all of these dungeons (each season) have different loot tables! Awesome!

IF: The “new team” dedicated to outdoor/world content is successful in creating fun exploration, puzzles, mini-games, etc. for players to interact with in each zone, this could also be great!

Of course, there’s other stuff, too, these are simply MY (keyword) takeaways.

Call it copium. Call it hopium. However, if the quality of THESE “systems” is polished compared to the quantity of “systems” that were in previous expansions, I’m sold!

[enigma77]

WARNING: I snorted a HUGE dose of copium/hopium before writing this post.

I was thinking about this question in my head today:

Does Dragonflight have enough content for me (keyword is me)?

Here are my quick-fire thoughts:

Dragonflight has fewer “systems” and variations of “borrowed power” compared to recent expansions. However, this could be great for me (again, the keyword is me). Think about it: Who does not prefer quality OVER quantity?

IF: Dragonriding is a deep enough system that promotes customization, exploration, and outdoor activities/challenges, this can persuade me to log-in day in and day out for some fun content. Think of the customization as comparable to Legion Artifact Weapon Appearances (you get to show off your cool dragon cosmetics based on what challenges/activities you completed in the game). Awesome right?

IF: Professions are fun, interactive, and promote exploration of the world through outdoor AND/OR instanced content, this can be really fun.

IF: We get 8 new dungeons in Dragonflight, but only 4 of them are accessible during M+ S1, and the other 4 are accessible during M+ S2, this can be really interesting because what’s a HUGE concern with M+ gearing? You are grinding for the SAME gear, every season just at a higher ilvl and from the same dungeons. Now, you get 8 completely different dungeons in S1 (4 Dragonflight/4 older), 8 completely different dungeons in S2 (following same pattern as S1), and all of these dungeons (each season) have different loot tables! Awesome!

IF: The “new team” dedicated to outdoor/world content is successful in creating fun exploration, puzzles, mini-games, etc. for players to interact with in each zone, this could also be great!

Of course, there’s other stuff, too, these are simply MY (keyword) takeaways.

Call it copium. Call it hopium. However, if the quality of THESE “systems” is polished compared to the quantity of “systems” that were not in previous expansions, I’m sold!

Won't happen.

It'll be like in Shadowlands, the first month will be cool, you'll want to log in daily and have stuff to do.

Then you've upgraded all your M+ gear with valor and the only thing left to do is do your weekly keys, raidlog and wait until next reset to have a chance at an upgrade. Repeat this for 5-6 months and have "fun".

People hated on Titanforging and AP, but these things kept the game alive and fresh. Once your character progression slows down to a near standstill, the game dies.

[Catastrophy349]

Won't happen.

It'll be like in Shadowlands, the first month will be cool, you'll want to log in daily and have stuff to do.

Then you've upgraded all your M+ gear with valor and the only thing left to do is do your weekly keys, raidlog and wait until next reset to have a chance at an upgrade. Repeat this for 5-6 months and have "fun".

I think you should play another game, or, big true here, touch some grass. Imagine hating a game and being so pessimistic that you waste your time bashing it on a forums.

[enigma77]

I think you should play another game, or, big true here, touch some grass. Imagine hating a game and being so pessimistic that you waste your time bashing it on a forums.

I'm just being realistic, but I don't mind smoking some copium myself.

[Catastrophy349]

I love when people tell others how “they” should be having fun in a video game or why the video game “they” enjoy is bad. Thanks for your opinion but I’m still going to be optimistic and enjoy it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

People hated on Titanforging and AP, but these things kept the game alive and fresh. Once your character progression slows down to a near standstill, the game dies.

I don't really think those two things kept the game alive and fresh nearly as much as you think. Like christ titanforging barely phased me like at all. AP wanes over the expansion so again....


Your argument is very weak. I do not miss Titanforging..like at all in Shadowlands. AP? Nah, even in BFA it didn't do too much.

I'm just being realistic, but I don't mind smoking some copium myself.

No you aren't, you are just telling others what you think to be reality but isn't under the guise of realism.

[Catastrophy349]

I'm just being realistic, but I don't mind smoking some copium myself.

HUFF: The copium is strong in this one!

[Makorus]

Won't happen.

It'll be like in Shadowlands, the first month will be cool, you'll want to log in daily and have stuff to do.

Then you've upgraded all your M+ gear with valor and the only thing left to do is do your weekly keys, raidlog and wait until next reset to have a chance at an upgrade. Repeat this for 5-6 months and have "fun".

People hated on Titanforging and AP, but these things kept the game alive and fresh. Once your character progression slows down to a near standstill, the game dies.

People like to think they're above their carrot on a stick and wouldn't fall for it.

They are not. Players need it. "You think that you don't, but you do"

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Won't happen.

It'll be like in Shadowlands, the first month will be cool, you'll want to log in daily and have stuff to do.

Then you've upgraded all your M+ gear with valor and the only thing left to do is do your weekly keys, raidlog and wait until next reset to have a chance at an upgrade. Repeat this for 5-6 months and have "fun".

People hated on Titanforging and AP, but these things kept the game alive and fresh. Once your character progression slows down to a near standstill, the game dies.

I disagree. I think the game can maintain interest and activity with RPG elements and consistent raid releases alone. I ought to remind you that this is about the point where the nostalgia threshold occurs—when a hated mechanic becomes interpreted positively through the lens of nostalgia.

I'd say that sufficient outdoor content and initial content sincerely would carry the game for a bit—only the most excessive completionists or no-lifers would likely wear through a sufficient amount of content too quickly.

Of course, this is where I think skepticism should be applied—it's wholly up to whether or not Catastrophy's copium high reflects reality, which I fear it may not. The keyword I have been using is "sufficiency", and I don't think that sufficiency is something Blizzard has provided thus far. I will grant them some legitimately interesting concepts for new systems, and further add to that how I'm legitimately excited to see old talents return, but it's very much up in the air if these systems will be any good. Will Dragonriding be something fun and dynamic that evolves as you explore release content, or will it be a tedious grind for appearances that will become a chore over time? Will the open-world content be as banal as Shadowlands, or a return to at least the standards of Legion, with legitimately fun and interesting world quests and storylines, with sufficient reason to come back for further content? These questions are those that can only really be observed in practice, as we simply do not have enough information to make assumptions (well, save for character generalizations about Blizzard, which certainly are inauspicious).

Another element is in the mindset of the players—one has to realistically take a cynical approach to this, which you are smart in doing. Blizzard players aren't the types to stop and smell the flowers, that much I'll admit, but if they can be given tantalizing enough of a shiny waved in front of their faces for any extended period of time, or with enough shinies integrated adequately into the aforementioned outdoor content, there is a possibility to herd them into enjoyment and retention.

[Catastrophy349]

I understand why people are pessimistic. Look at Shadowlands (and to some, BFA (although I liked BFA)). However, we don’t even have gameplay, yet. IF after Alpha/Beta the game looks like crap, fine, I’ll succumb and get on your level. Until then, I’m optimistic because that’s how I am. I refuse to hate something I know little about.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

HUFF: The copium is strong in this one!

Frankly, I do think we all owe you a degree of credit for remaining a source of hopium in this trying environment. Not everybody's particularly excited, and prospects seem somewhat gloomy in many areas. However, there's plenty to have a cautious sense of optimism about this expansion, so we may as well entertain the possibility.

[Dracullus]

Being cynical is not being realistic. Realistic approach is analizing what you (or community) hated about SL and then judging how likely is for DF to fix it. Based on informations, not "devs hate me and whole game" bias.

[Catastrophy349]

I'll remain copium/hopium/cheerful until I otherwise see a reason not to.

[Nyel]

I understand why people are pessimistic. Look at Shadowlands (and to some, BFA (although I liked BFA)). However, we don’t even have gameplay, yet. IF after Alpha/Beta the game looks like crap, fine, I’ll succumb and get on your level. Until then, I’m optimistic because that’s how I am. I refuse to hate something I know little about.

I mean... everything what you said can be applied to each and every single expansion. There's nothing in Dragonflight that makes it the exception to the rule.

Bigger team? Check, we already had that before and look where it ended.

Focus on basic systems? Check, we had that before and it didn't last long.

Less new dungeons at first is somehow more and better? Uhm... you're still doing the exact same thing just in a different environment.

Quality over quantity? Check, WoD is calling (granted, gameplay was at a peak during that time though).

The open world stuff: what you said, we haven't seen anything from it. So it can be basically exactly what we have now for open world content - or it can be different. To think they'll reinvent how open world content in WoW works is very much copium though.

I think we all need to tame and adjust our expectations. While many are already dooming this expansion, you're overglorifying of how it could be - and I'm just sure the game won't hold up to that, because it's just not possible.

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I'll remain copium/hopium/cheerful until I otherwise see a reason not to.

Shouldn't it be vice versa? Because I really don't see any evidence or proof to base your copium/hopium on, simply because Blizzard hasn't showed us anything in that regard. 100% talk, 0% action.