1. #60781
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You still need to test questing. There are always buggy quests during the beta and letting a quest go live bugged on release is very much a disaster, especially if it gates story progression; it has happened before and you end up with huge numbers of players stack on the same spot trying to get the quest to work. Plus they need the feedback on quest flow. If you test that, much of the story will end up leaked anyway. My point is, at least let it become available in the way it will be experienced instead of through snippets of datamined content.
    They can just disable any spoken lines aswell as the quest textes themself.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  2. #60782
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You still need to test questing. There are always buggy quests during the beta and letting a quest go live bugged on release is very much a disaster, especially if it gates story progression; it has happened before and you end up with huge numbers of players stack on the same spot trying to get the quest to work. Plus they need the feedback on quest flow. If you test that, much of the story will end up leaked anyway. My point is, at least let it become available in the way it will be experienced instead of through snippets of datamined content.
    You think in house testing isn't possible?

  3. #60783
    Warchief Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    It would be awesome if they could do story quests internally to avoid spoilers. Of course, won't mean anything if it isn't encrypted and hidden from data-miners.

  4. #60784
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    IDK what's lame about the Hunter trees, I see a lot of people pining for Wild Spirits but it's such a braindead boring ability I'm sort of unsure why.
    Omg thank you, finally someone who understands, I love the look of the new Talent tree to the point its actually made me debate on whether to drop hunter as my main.

  5. #60785
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    Exactly. It’s Alpha. They are 100% going to target test small amounts, then increase as we progress Alpha into Beta. Anyone expecting the entire expansion on Alpha next week is delusional. Also, anyone expecting to judge the entirety of Dragonflight based on a single build of Alpha next week to decide (is this expansion ready for 2022 or is it being rushed) is also delusional.
    The first real minable builds are always significant, not "small amounts". What is intended to be tested is totally irrelevant for anyone besides someone testing.

    It means map files for usually most of the entire continent and many dungeons (even when those zones or dungeons aren't made available). Models for a big portion of all the new mobs, animals, and creatures (as well as often dungeon mobs, and raid bosses from the first tier). Armor sets for questing, dungeon and sometimes the first tier, weapons for the same. A ton of new mounts and pets, almost certainly the entire current iteration of Evoker's kit along with Dracthyr's current customization options. The background string changes and data for a ton of systems and game aspects (currencies, titles, factions, new UI systems, etc.), preliminary names and amounts of new materials for professions along with hundreds of new recipes. It also includes a bunch of new music, even though there's often a larger music build push later on in the testing

    Even when sometime isn't actually available for testing, like Torghast, Warfronts or Azerite Armor, sub-systems for those things (like a bunch of anima powers or azerite powers, or the resources involved in warfronts) are in earlier builds. Even though zone testing is often done 1-2 zones at a time, all the zones are there in the map files, even when some are in early concept stages and don't ever actually end up as real zones (Thal'dranath, Farahlon). Even when quest lines aren't enabled to play through in the build, things like dialogue are often still viewable. Even when dungeons are disabled, their map files are often still in the build, as are frequently dungeon journal encounter information.

    The bulk of the X.0 patch is usually in the first real minable build. It doesn't increase, there's progressively less in following builds.

  6. #60786
    Warchief Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    The first real minable builds are always significant, not "small amounts". What is intended to be tested is totally irrelevant for anyone besides someone testing.

    It means map files for usually most of the entire continent and many dungeons (even when those zones or dungeons aren't made available). Models for a big portion of all the new mobs, animals, and creatures (as well as often dungeon mobs, and raid bosses from the first tier). Armor sets for questing, dungeon and sometimes the first tier, weapons for the same. A ton of new mounts and pets, almost certainly the entire current iteration of Evoker's kit along with Dracthyr's current customization options. The background string changes and data for a ton of systems and game aspects (currencies, titles, factions, new UI systems, etc.), preliminary names and amounts of new materials for professions along with hundreds of new recipes. It also includes a bunch of new music, even though there's often a larger music build push later on in the testing

    Even when sometime isn't actually available for testing, like Torghast, Warfronts or Azerite Armor, sub-systems for those things (like a bunch of anima powers or azerite powers, or the resources involved in warfronts) are in earlier builds. Even though zone testing is often done 1-2 zones at a time, all the zones are there in the map files, even when some are in early concept stages and don't ever actually end up as real zones (Thal'dranath, Farahlon). Even when quest lines aren't enabled to play through in the build, things like dialogue are often still viewable. Even when dungeons are disabled, their map files are often still in the build, as are frequently dungeon journal encounter information.

    The bulk of the X.0 patch is usually in the first real minable build. It doesn't increase, there's progressively less in following builds.
    That's great, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was strictly speaking on "in-game content" available during the first build. So, yes, it is "small amounts" targeted as I stated.

  7. #60787
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    The recent announcement for account-wide cosmic flux has me worried about DF and that Blizz STILL can't resist putting in these arbitrary barriers for alts and just playing the game. Why is sending flux to alts at a loss? Why isn't it 1:1? Better yet, why do I even have to send it? Why can't I just log on and have a pool of resources I can tap into across all characters? Destiny does this and it's way WAY better. It adds nothing to the game to keep these currencies locked to a character or that you have to pay a "tax" to send them across characters.

    It's not fun, it's not interesting, and it's pretty worrying that even if they're adding the option (which should have been there from day 1 mind you), all this talk of account-wide everything in DF won't go nearly as far as it should because they just can't help themselves falling into these same trappings we've had since WoD (and arguably the game's inception).
    The reason is very likely that the flipside to making things extremely easy for alts it that you make it exceedingly efficient to play alts compared to playing just a single one.
    Consider for instance the case in which Cosmic Flux was fully tradeable day one. Sure it would be very convenient for those who want to play and maintain more than one character, but as a consequence you would have also made the most efficient way of farming it to simply play several alts that all funnel it into one character.
    Now this would be fixed in turn by making the resource less useful in large quantities, but then you are also quite simply making the resource less useful in general, which just makes it end up useless like what it is like now all the faster.
    Another solution is of course to make the amount you can gather capped account wide, but this is similarly problematic if you want to maintain several alts as the game now needs to be balanced in such a way that it considers single characters over many, which is even more blatantly alt-unfriendly.

    The same is true for almost everything that is specific to a character, reputations for instance. We actually have useful things sold by the quartermaster for gearing. Rewards would have to be rebalanced to account for players gaining revered and simply buying great gear on all alts, or for that matter the question whether you will balance around alts by making it extremely difficult for single character players, or have weekly lockouts for rep farming, which feel even worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Omg thank you, finally someone who understands, I love the look of the new Talent tree to the point its actually made me debate on whether to drop hunter as my main.
    Guess it depends on what class you prefer. As a staunch MM main it's not great, but at least a vast improvement over the design corpse that is BfA and SL MM.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  8. #60788
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    You think in house testing isn't possible?
    I would hope some in house testing actually happens before the alpha. ANd yet we've had several cases when a zone is released in alpha or beta and a quest is completely broken.

  9. #60789
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    It would be awesome if they could do story quests internally to avoid spoilers. Of course, won't mean anything if it isn't encrypted and hidden from data-miners.
    I wonder whether they might be tempted to hide raid bosses almost completely for story reasons. Sepulcher was both well recieved for hiding the last three bosses, and criticized for being too difficult, both problems being solveable by making the raid easier and then hiding it.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #60790
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The reason is very likely that the flipside to making things extremely easy for alts it that you make it exceedingly efficient to play alts compared to playing just a single one.
    Consider for instance the case in which Cosmic Flux was fully tradeable day one. Sure it would be very convenient for those who want to play and maintain more than one character, but as a consequence you would have also made the most efficient way of farming it to simply play several alts that all funnel it into one character.
    Now this would be fixed in turn by making the resource less useful in large quantities, but then you are also quite simply making the resource less useful in general, which just makes it end up useless like what it is like now all the faster.
    Another solution is of course to make the amount you can gather capped account wide, but this is similarly problematic if you want to maintain several alts as the game now needs to be balanced in such a way that it considers single characters over many, which is even more blatantly alt-unfriendly.

    The same is true for almost everything that is specific to a character, reputations for instance. We actually have useful things sold by the quartermaster for gearing. Rewards would have to be rebalanced to account for players gaining revered and simply buying great gear on all alts, or for that matter the question whether you will balance around alts by making it extremely difficult for single character players, or have weekly lockouts for rep farming, which feel even worse.

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    Guess it depends on what class you prefer. As a staunch MM main it's not great, but at least a vast improvement over the design corpse that is BfA and SL MM.
    I'm an MM Hunter, I love how I can build my Hunter to my desire with the new Talent trees.

  11. #60791
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Even when sometime isn't actually available for testing, like Torghast, Warfronts or Azerite Armor, sub-systems for those things (like a bunch of anima powers or azerite powers, or the resources involved in warfronts) are in earlier builds. Even though zone testing is often done 1-2 zones at a time, all the zones are there in the map files, even when some are in early concept stages and don't ever actually end up as real zones (Thal'dranath, Farahlon). Even when quest lines aren't enabled to play through in the build, things like dialogue are often still viewable. Even when dungeons are disabled, their map files are often still in the build, as are frequently dungeon journal encounter information.
    Yeah even if the system is not available and the spells are not hooked up on the UI, they still exist. I think the only system that was being added later and slowly was Azerite.

  12. #60792
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    You still need to test questing. There are always buggy quests during the beta and letting a quest go live bugged on release is very much a disaster, especially if it gates story progression; it has happened before and you end up with huge numbers of players stack on the same spot trying to get the quest to work. Plus they need the feedback on quest flow. If you test that, much of the story will end up leaked anyway. My point is, at least let it become available in the way it will be experienced instead of through snippets of datamined content.
    The main bulk of questing is likely impossible to hide, even just hiding quest text would leave a lot open to interpretation and also extremely difficult to effectively test.
    Might be possible to hide the mots important ones though. Even if it would require a lot of effort to write the quests in such a way that you contain the twists to only a handful of important questlines.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  13. #60793
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    I enjoyed both the brew and the nightfae ability. In generell I think they should try to keep as many of the covenant abilities as possible, even if it's just to avoid the major problem of borrowed power - losing it after you had fun with it for some time.
    I'll happily trade for tiger's eye brew or controlled Clones

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I think Fallen Order has the potential to be interesting.
    The rng killed it for me

  14. #60794
    Quote Originally Posted by Catastrophy349 View Post
    That's great, but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was strictly speaking on "in-game content" available during the first build. So, yes, it is "small amounts" targeted as I stated.
    I see you were unable to read the second sentence.

  15. #60795
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    I'm an MM Hunter, I love how I can build my Hunter to my desire with the new Talent trees.
    That is very true. I can only hope my current ideal setup isn't going to be too bad, really don't want to have to pick Rapid Fire, and would much rather just pick increases to Aimed Shot and Kill Shot.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  16. #60796
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Can someone explain to me what the point of work orders is? The item might aswell just be BOE, no?

    What makes it different, or meaningful?
    You don't have to spend the time or gold to be able to make mythic level gear if you aren't a crafter

    If you are a crafter you can gain levels in crafting for free and make gold

    There's also a social aspect now

  17. #60797
    Reckon there's gonna be some kind of announcement after the MDI finals?

  18. #60798
    I hope we get a proper expansion trailer for DF at some point in the near future, it's painful trying to rewatch the footage they showed and have to sift through all the forced jokes and talking. Here's to hoping they don't continue this format, but it seems to be the plan moving forward.

  19. #60799
    Warchief Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I see you were unable to read the second sentence.
    Oh, no. I read what you said. You agreed with me. However, you started your rebuttal by essentially saying I am wrong by saying that my “small amounts” comment was wrong. I always meant the testing alpha in my “small amounts” comment so there was no reason to disagree with me of, in fact, you do agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    I hope we get a proper expansion trailer for DF at some point in the near future, it's painful trying to rewatch the footage they showed and have to sift through all the forced jokes and talking. Here's to hoping they don't continue this format, but it seems to be the plan moving forward.
    This format was due to COVID. Did you see the Blizzcon 2023 announcement?

  20. #60800
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    I hope we get a proper expansion trailer for DF at some point in the near future, it's painful trying to rewatch the footage they showed and have to sift through all the forced jokes and talking. Here's to hoping they don't continue this format, but it seems to be the plan moving forward.
    You mean you didn't like the cuts every 3 seconds??
    You also didn't like the HILARIOUS jokes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Reckon there's gonna be some kind of announcement after the MDI finals?
    Doubtful anything today but we have
    Dragon flying blog
    Evoker blog
    Creator summit
    7 class trees
    All in the next 3-4 days depending on if they do the evoker stuff Thursday with alpha

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