Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Catastrophy349]

It wasn't due to COVID, I think it was more to do with the drama at Blizzard so they focused on putting the developers front and center. Which I can appreciate, but the bulk of the video shouldn't be them.

I misspoke with the COVID comment. I didn’t mean to say it’s because of COVID. I was trying to say that Blizzcon is usually where we get this information but we haven’t had that since COVID. Hopefully, the Blizzcon 2023 will happen and we can have a better announcement cadence.

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You mean you didn't like the cuts every 3 seconds??
You also didn't like the HILARIOUS jokes?

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Doubtful anything today but we have
Dragon flying blog
Evoker blog
Creator summit
7 class trees
All in the next 3-4 days depending on if they do the evoker stuff Thursday with alpha

I’ve read/watched every announcement/video since the DF announcement. Where are you getting this information from saying that we would have ALL talent trees, an Evoker blog, and a Dragonriding blog??

[Revamp Man]

Won't happen.

It'll be like in Shadowlands, the first month will be cool, you'll want to log in daily and have stuff to do.

Then you've upgraded all your M+ gear with valor and the only thing left to do is do your weekly keys, raidlog and wait until next reset to have a chance at an upgrade. Repeat this for 5-6 months and have "fun".

People hated on Titanforging and AP, but these things kept the game alive and fresh. Once your character progression slows down to a near standstill, the game dies.

You have weekly quests and farmable max level areas for crafting mats to make raid quality gear
You have the profession system
You have reputation renown
You have open world difficult areas

I get that TF made people feel powerful and AP was a constant carrot on a stick but nobody can convince me that it didn't feel like a let down to get a non TF piece or that having to regrind ap to unlock traits on gear felt rewarding. Those systems had negative aspects that people ignore because "it gave me a reason to log in every single day" which also had the negative of "if I don't log in for my dailies today I'll fall behind"

My alts will actually be playable without days of grinds. Crafters can make gold like the old days and actually get rewarded. My class won't be half playable without a repetitive grind.

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I misspoke with the COVID comment. I didn’t mean to say it’s because of COVID. I was trying to say that Blizzcon is usually where we get this information but we haven’t had that since COVID. Hopefully, the Blizzcon 2023 will happen and we can have a better announcement cadence.

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I’ve read/watched every announcement/video since the DF announcement. Where are you getting this information from saying that we would have ALL talent trees, an Evoker blog, and a Dragonriding blog??

Normally they make a blog for new systems like dragon riding in the past. We have seen the one for professions already.

We can assume that the new class with a new gameplay mechanic won't just get a paragraph in alpha and their talents are 100% new so they would need more explanation.

Why would they only release 5 talent trees and not the rest when they have the game testing right now in the private alpha. They want the players to give feedback before we get to test so it's safe to assume we will get 2-3-2

[Catastrophy349]

You have weekly quests and farmable max level areas for crafting mats to make raid quality gear
You have the profession system
You have reputation renown
You have open world difficult areas

I get that TF made people feel powerful and AP was a constant carrot on a stick but nobody can convince me that it didn't feel like a let down to get a non TF piece or that having to regrind ap to unlock traits on gear felt rewarding. Those systems had negative aspects that people ignore because "it gave me a reason to log in every single day" which also had the negative of "if I don't log in for my dailies today I'll fall behind"

My alts will actually be playable without days of grinds. Crafters can make gold like the old days and actually get rewarded. My class won't be half playable without a repetitive grind.

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Normally they make a blog for new systems like dragon riding in the past. We have seen the one for professions already.

We can assume that the new class with a new gameplay mechanic won't just get a paragraph in alpha and their talents are 100% new so they would need more explanation.

Why would they only release 5 talent trees and not the rest when they have the game testing right now in the private alpha. They want the players to give feedback before we get to test so it's safe to assume we will get 2-3-2

For sure. I wasn’t arguing the fact that we don’t “deserve” or shouldn’t get these talents/blog posts either before/during Alpha. I was simply asking if you had a source for where you saw that. I got my answer, though (you’re assuming we will based on precedent).

[Kiria]

That is very true. I can only hope my current ideal setup isn't going to be too bad, really don't want to have to pick Rapid Fire, and would much rather just pick increases to Aimed Shot and Kill Shot.

Same, the build I have made on the talent calculator doesnt have Rapid fire, I absolutely detest that ability in its current form.

[Revamp Man]

For sure. I wasn’t arguing the fact that we don’t “deserve” or shouldn’t get these talents/blog posts either before/during Alpha. I was simply asking if you had a source for where you saw that. I got my answer, though (you’re assuming we will based on precedent).

yeah no source beyond what they have done in the past
there is a bit of a hint to something because the turnip was starting his cryptic tweets

[Hitei]

Oh, no. I read what you said. You agreed with me. However, you started your rebuttal by essentially saying I am wrong by saying that my “small amounts” comment was wrong. I always meant the testing alpha in my “small amounts” comment so there was no reason to disagree with me of, in fact, you do agree.

You didn't though? Your initial claim was about people expecting the entire expansion on alpha being delusional, and agreeing with the objectively wrong take that somehow alpha wouldn't be a big deal for the community because "it's like 1 zone and maybe a dungeon, there's not even much content". Both of these are incorrect. I am not agreeing with you at all. Alpha always has a ton of content and is a very big deal, because again, most of the entire expansion is in that first large datamine build, which is also plenty enough to judge the general quality and vibe, as well as the state re: being ready by the end of the year.

[Catastrophy349]

You didn't though? Your initial claim was about people expecting the entire expansion on alpha being delusional, and agreeing with the objectively wrong take that somehow alpha wouldn't be a big deal for the community because "it's like 1 zone and maybe a dungeon, there's not even much content". Both of these are incorrect. I am not agreeing with you at all. Alpha always has a ton of content and is a very big deal, because again, most of the entire expansion is in that first large datamine build, which is also plenty enough to judge the general quality and vibe, as well as the state re: being ready by the end of the year.

Ok. So, I was right and you are in fact ignorant. Yes? I never talked about the initial datamined build, nor did I say that there wouldn't be a lot of content in the Alpha. I said that the FIRST Alpha build would "most likely" be targeted toward a small amount of content. For example, Evoker ONLY testing. A few classes with their talent trees and 1 Dragon Isles zone. OR a combination of both. That is VERY LITTLE content compared to the overall content of the expansion. I don't care what is "techncially" in the game or data-mined for viewing on a wowtools or similar application. I am saying that the first day of Alpha, Day ONE, Build ONE, will be VERY limited.

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You didn't though? Your initial claim was about people expecting the entire expansion on alpha being delusional, and agreeing with the objectively wrong take that somehow alpha wouldn't be a big deal for the community because "it's like 1 zone and maybe a dungeon, there's not even much content". Both of these are incorrect. I am not agreeing with you at all. Alpha always has a ton of content and is a very big deal, because again, most of the entire expansion is in that first large datamine build, which is also plenty enough to judge the general quality and vibe, as well as the state re: being ready by the end of the year.

Looking back at our conversation, I feel like we are both arguing the same thing just in a very silly, pointless way that is coming across as bickering. I'm very excited for this week!

[Hitei]

Ok. So, I was right and you are in fact ignorant. Yes? I never talked about the initial datamined build, nor did I say that there wouldn't be a lot of content in the Alpha. I said that the FIRST Alpha build would "most likely" be targeted toward a small amount of content. For example, Evoker ONLY testing. A few classes with their talent trees and 1 Dragon Isles zone. OR a combination of both. That is VERY LITTLE content compared to the overall content of the expansion. I don't care what is "techncially" in the game or data-mined for viewing on a wowtools or similar application. I am saying that the first day of Alpha, Day ONE, Build ONE, will be VERY limited.

I'm ignorant? You don't even understand the basic timeline for testing here.

I am specifying "first datamined build" because there are sometimes one or two builds right before the actual alpha starts, with absolutely nothing in it/them, or nothing accessible, like the current builds that keep getting pushed. Your hypothetical "First Alpha build targeted testing" comes AFTER the datamining build. The closed Alpha for BfA was the first week of February 2018, the large datamined build for the alpha was almost two weeks prior in January. "first day of Alpha, Day ONE, Build ONE" is not "let's hop on and test one Dragon Isle's zone", because they aren't copy pasting a single Dragon Isles zone into the Shadowlands. At the point where you are testing "one" zone, the rest of the isles are already in the game and right there, just not open for alpha testers to play through. When you are at the point for Evokers to be playable, they aren't just spawned into Bastion or Elwynn. They are put in with their entire base zone, hence why the announcement for most expansions have a starting zone as the playable demo--half a year before any actual external testing happens.

The majority of content is there and visible for judgement ""day one build one"". What a couple dozen people can actually play through comes later, and is largely irrelevant for what the community is excited about the initial alpha release for. People aren't chomping at the bit to see Taliesin do each zone's questline. They are chomping at the bit to see wowhead/MMO-C posts of all the creature models and armor sets, and MrGM fly-through of new zones, and to hear the new login screen music, and see new recipes and pets and mounts and all the other shit that is in the first dataminable build before testing even starts.

[Catastrophy349]

I'm ignorant? You don't even understand the basic timeline for testing here.

I am specifying "first datamined build" because there are sometimes one or two builds right before the actual alpha starts, with absolutely nothing in it/them, or nothing accessible, like the current builds that keep getting pushed. Your hypothetical "First Alpha build targeted testing" comes AFTER the datamining build. The closed Alpha for BfA was the first week of February 2018, the large datamined build for the alpha was almost two weeks prior in January. "first day of Alpha, Day ONE, Build ONE" is not "let's hop on and test one Dragon Isle's zone", because they aren't copy pasting a single Dragon Isles zone into the Shadowlands. At the point where you are testing "one" zone, the rest of the isles are already in the game and right there, just not open for alpha testers to play through. When you are at the point for Evokers to be playable, they aren't just spawned into Bastion or Elwynn. They are put in with their entire base zone, hence why the announcement for most expansions have a starting zone as the playable demo--half a year before any actual external testing happens.

The majority of content is there and visible for judgement ""day one build one"". What a couple dozen people can actually play through comes later, and is largely irrelevant for what the community is excited about the initial alpha release for. People aren't chomping at the bit to see Taliesin do each zone's questline. They are chomping at the bit to see wowhead/MMO-C posts of all the creature models and armor sets, and MrGM fly-through of new zones, and to hear the new login screen music, and see new recipes and pets and mounts and all the other shit that is in the first dataminable build before testing even starts.

Exactly. That is why I posted above ^^ that after reading my conversation with you, this back and forth seemed pointless because you and I were saying the same thing (at-least what I was trying to say) but differently. I used very poor wording. So, yes, we're on the same page!

I was mostly trying to enlighten a bit of optimism but also realism for what will actually be available for those "in the Alpha" to play on the first day.

[horizon nowhere]

Lol what happened here

[Revamp Man]

Lol what happened here

Essentially
One person: red and white make pink
Other person: no it makes light red
*so many pages later*
Person 1: they are the same color but you said it wrong
Person 2: I agree they are the same but you just didn't understand my phrasing


At least that's my assumption because I'm not reading that

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So blog post or talent trees tomorrow boys??

[Nymrohd]

Nope, fuck playing alts.

Main character progression or no game.

I have to agree with that. I love alts but the game actually needs to be able to offer progression for a main character for most of the life of each patch. If I can be done progressing in 2-3 months while the patch lasts 6-8, there is a problem.

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Essentially
One person: red and white make pink
Other person: no it makes light red
*so many pages later*
Person 1: they are the same color but you said it wrong
Person 2: I agree they are the same but you just didn't understand my phrasing


At least that's my assumption because I'm not reading that

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So blog post or talent trees tomorrow boys??

I think Dracthyr customization should come next together with an Evoker blog post; perhaps the two can be combined in a mega post. In past expacs the first alpha build was entirely on the new class (I think that was true in both Wrath and Legion).

[Nyel]

So, in an interview, Ion said that M+ was originally intended to be a Legion ONLY feature. However, due to feedback and popular demand, they continued it forward in BFA, SL, DF, etc. For Dragonriding, he said that while it is meant for Dragon Isles content only, they could innovate or pull it forward into other expansions if it is received highly.

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Dragon Covenants without the player power attached!

Which makes a revamp even more unlikely because they would have to adjust the entire continent for that. If we just get another new island chain or whatever, implementing Dragonriding would be way easier.

By the way, Dragon Covenants make more sense than Shadowlands Covenants ever did, no idea how they could not do it. It's the most logical thing.
_________

I really need Monk and Shaman (I want useful Weapon buffs for all specs, not only Enhancer. Give me back Earthliving Weapon and make another one for Elemental, too) talent trees like now. And Some info about Evoker...

[Lady Atia]

Nope, fuck playing alts.

Main character progression or no game.

Are you the dev who fucked up alt game for years in order to push their "borrowed power" crap? If so I'm glad that NewBlizzard! has changed and finally realized that alt play is the game. Or in your words. Nope, fuck main character "progression". Playing alts, or no game.

[sandini]

I have to agree with that. I love alts but the game actually needs to be able to offer progression for a main character for most of the life of each patch. If I can be done progressing in 2-3 months while the patch lasts 6-8, there is a problem.

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I think Dracthyr customization should come next together with an Evoker blog post; perhaps the two can be combined in a mega post. In past expacs the first alpha build was entirely on the new class (I think that was true in both Wrath and Legion).

Don´t forget the monks!

[Nymrohd]

Which makes a revamp even more unlikely because they would have to adjust the entire continent for that. If we just get another new island chain or whatever, implementing Dragonriding would be way easier.

? Why would dragonriding affect terrain in old expacs? At worst, we get to cross through them far faster with maxed out Dragonriding; that's a convenience. If any revamp was meant to make content current then two options; a) combine zones to create larger zones that work better for modern WoW and Dragonriding, b) instead of superimposing a phased revamp as is done now, create an actual larger world that is separate.

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Are you the dev who fucked up alt game for years in order to push their "borrowed power" crap? If so I'm glad that NewBlizzard! has changed and finally realized that alt play is the game. Or in your words. Nope, fuck main character "progression". Playing alts, or no game.

You all really would love to kill the game just to make it cater to just your interests.

[Nebron]

The majority of content is there and visible for judgement ""day one build one"". What a couple dozen people can actually play through comes later, and is largely irrelevant for what the community is excited about the initial alpha release for. People aren't chomping at the bit to see Taliesin do each zone's questline. They are chomping at the bit to see wowhead/MMO-C posts of all the creature models and armor sets, and MrGM fly-through of new zones, and to hear the new login screen music, and see new recipes and pets and mounts and all the other shit that is in the first dataminable build before testing even starts.

This is soooooo true.

[Nyel]

? Why would dragonriding affect terrain in old expacs? At worst, we get to cross through them far faster with maxed out Dragonriding; that's a convenience. If any revamp was meant to make content current then two options; a) combine zones to create larger zones that work better for modern WoW and Dragonriding, b) instead of superimposing a phased revamp as is done now, create an actual larger world that is separate.

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You all really would love to kill the game just to make it cater to just your interests.

Iirc they explicitly said during the announcement that - for Dragonriding to continue in the future - they would need to build the new content around it. Which means they would need to do the same for the "old" content. And while a revamp is a tremendous task that requires much work, even more so with Dragonriding in mind, it's way easier to just create a new continent where the 5 or so zones are created with Dragonriding in mind. Creating a handful of zones on a new continent for Dragonriding is way easier than adjusting 30 or more old zones for that system.

[Lady Atia]

? Why would dragonriding affect terrain in old expacs? At worst, we get to cross through them far faster with maxed out Dragonriding; that's a convenience. If any revamp was meant to make content current then two options; a) combine zones to create larger zones that work better for modern WoW and Dragonriding, b) instead of superimposing a phased revamp as is done now, create an actual larger world that is separate.

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You all really would love to kill the game just to make it cater to just your interests.

Well my interests are: mounts, transmogs, pets, achievements, mythic raiding, m+20, pvp solo q, alt play, updated professions. Wait, that's exactly what Blizzard is giving me. Maybe that's the reason why I love Dragonflight?

None of it kills the game, it saves the game. Thousand times more than any "Borrowed Power" crap could ever have lol.

[Grimmy17]

Happy Alpha week!