Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Grimmy17]

Certainly will depend on specs and favored builds. Any class whose major cooldown is strong and on a short CD has a lot to gain (traditionally Arcane, likely for Frost DK if it's Pillar of Frost, possibly Ret if Crusade is strong just off the top of my head). The problem really comes when you have 5-6 people who could really use Crew which means 1-2 will not get it. It was a constant issue in TBC when you had to set buff groups.

I think Arcane will depend entirely on it's tree and tuning - if they give them Radiant Spark it would desync them as it does now. Crusade is a very powerful candidate though!

All in all, I expect the effect to either be removed completely or not stack (there could also be an argument for it only affecting one party member at a time; so one finisher would be 5seconds CDR for a single party member). Who knows

[Nymrohd]

Oh I so hope we'll get a Titan facility raid that could actually rival Ulduar in its awesomeness.

I am still hoping that we will see Uldorus. Unless I get my actual dream expac and we do an UNDERGROUND expansion after this.

[Grimmy17]

I am still hoping that we will see Uldorus. Unless I get my actual dream expac and we do an UNDERGROUND expansion after this.

Was Uldorus mentioned in BFA by MOTHER? I can't say I can recall much about it lore-wise. Everyone loves a titan raid, it's WoW law!

[Nyel]

Oh I so hope we'll get a Titan facility raid that could actually rival Ulduar in its awesomeness.

Uldracon.

(naming rights are reserved)

[Nymrohd]

Was Uldorus mentioned in BFA by MOTHER? I can't say I can recall much about it lore-wise. Everyone loves a titan raid, it's WoW law!

It was mentioned by MOTHER yes. Going by Antorus, if Titan facilities use the same naming scheme I assume Uldorus will be the facility holding the World Soul itself; a facility that reaches to the center of the planet but probably has an access point somewhere.

[Catastrophy349]

Let’s see:

Originally, Dragon Isles were intended to have temples worshiping the Old Gods. So, what do we know based on current information?

1). Dragons
2). Titan Keepers
3). Titan structures (saw in the video showcasing the last leveling zone)
4). Elementals
5). Bunch of random tribes
6). Etc.

Now, what could happen from a lore perspective? Well, the last time we were on Azeroth was dealing with N’Zoth (at-least so we think). At the end of the 9.2.5 quest line with Tyrande in Ardenweald, Ysera talks about a place that could protect the “new tear” which Tyrande holds from the Winter Queen. This is obviously the Dragon Isles. We also have all of the “doom and gloom” the Jailer was yapping about before his death.

To go a step further, we also have the end of Cataclysm (Deathwing’s fall (is he really gone?) and the aspects). We saw Nozdormu and his future self Murozond in End Time, will that be addressed?).

[Dracullus]

Oh I so hope we'll get a Titan facility raid that could actually rival Ulduar in its awesomeness.

I still don't understand why people worship Ulduar so much. It was massive step in quality, but since then we had ton of raids that could rival for top1. My personal favourite was Blackrock Foundry, shame it came just few months after 14 month long orc tier.

[Nyel]

I think the return of Xalatath, maybe as the secret main villain, would be really cool. That she's seeking something in those Old God temples or facilities or whatever. Would be a good interlude to a Void expansion, too.

[Kaesebrezen]

Oh, yeah! Exactly what I wanted to hear. I figured if Shadowlands is the new precedent for Alpha testing in small amounts, this makes the most sense. I assumed we'd get even less, perhaps.

That's really something you wanted to hear? Shadowlands had 7 months from Alpha begin to launch. Dragonflight will have at most 5 months, likely even less if release is in november. By this point in time for SL, nearly all content was available for testing in alpha.

I'd be worried if they followed a similar approach to SL. What matters is endgame content, like max level dragon flying and m+ with full talent trees. Not some focused testing on the leveling experience and normal mode dungeons that was spread out over two months, esp. not with just 4-5 months of testin to go. We probably need as soon as testing starts.

[huth]

Certainly will depend on specs and favored builds. Any class whose major cooldown is strong and on a short CD has a lot to gain (traditionally Arcane, likely for Frost DK if it's Pillar of Frost, possibly Ret if Crusade is strong just off the top of my head). The problem really comes when you have 5-6 people who could really use Crew which means 1-2 will not get it. It was a constant issue in TBC when you had to set buff groups.

Remember why they abandoned the whole CDR stat idea. It just isn't actually that strong, and CDs have a very hard cap on how far you can reduce them, with heavy DR.

[Nyel]

I still don't understand why people worship Ulduar so much. It was massive step in quality, but since then we had ton of raids that could rival for top1. My personal favourite was Blackrock Foundry, shame it came just few months after 14 month long orc tier.

Aren't Ulduar, Icecrown Citadel, Throne of Thunder and Blackrock Foundry (and to an extent Hellfire Citadel) often cited as the best raids? So they're pretty even, I just think Ulduar due to its scope was on another level that wasn't rivaled since then. Plus, the bosses were remarkable and interesting (most of them).

[Gorsameth]

I still don't understand why people worship Ulduar so much. It was massive step in quality, but since then we had ton of raids that could rival for top1. My personal favourite was Blackrock Foundry, shame it came just few months after 14 month long orc tier.

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug and many players are likely wrath babies so Ulduar is the first 'quality' raid they ever experienced.

[Revamp Man]

I don't think Restless Crew is going to be that problematic as you guys think. Not all classes benefit from having a lower major CD due to desync, and it's not like people were stacking more Priests just for Fae Guardians.

I'm wondering if it would be more useful for healers
I mean a lot of burn phases come during high damage as well so you could get like 30s of tranq just from hero

I like the possibilities but I also don't have to math it

[Catastrophy349]

I think the return of Xalatath, maybe as the secret main villain, would be really cool. That she's seeking something in those Old God temples or facilities or whatever. Would be a good interlude to a Void expansion, too.

Very true. While Shadowlands’ story was wonky, that shouldn’t be reason enough to completely stop the cosmic story they started building up (heck, it’s been there since the beginning of WoW if you look close enough). However, it needs to be told “right” and in small chunks so that it makes sense. If they want to address the remaining forces, slowly build them up in Dragonflight, 11.0, etc. We do not need to leave Dragonflight for another intergalactic battle.

[Revamp Man]

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug and many players are likely wrath babies so Ulduar is the first 'quality' raid they ever experienced.

The hard modes allowed for flexibility in your runs
Legendary mace kept it relevant
Was the best raid lock out design during Wrath
Was huge
Had a variety of environments in it

- - - Updated - - -

Very true. While Shadowlands’ story was wonky, that shouldn’t be reason enough to completely stop the cosmic story they started building up (heck, it’s been there since the beginning of WoW if you look close enough). However, it needs to be told “right” and in small chunks so that it makes sense. If they want to address the remaining forces, slowly build them up in Dragonflight, 11.0, etc. We do not need to leave Dragonflight for another intergalactic battle.

Tinfoil time

Xal is the final OG depicted in chronicles (border had things from all the known old gods plus one more)
She isn't threatened by a titan equivalent being like elune
With her brothers dead she makes her move and the goal is on the dragon isles

[Nyel]

Imagine Xalatath riding Chromatus or Galakrond in battle.

[Grimmy17]

I'm wondering if it would be more useful for healers
I mean a lot of burn phases come during high damage as well so you could get like 30s of tranq just from hero

I like the possibilities but I also don't have to math it

It's usually not. This is part of the reason the Restoration Shaman tier set was changed so heavily - Between 4-5 healers in a raid you usually have more than enough CDs to cover each point of mechanic damage, enforcing CDR into the mix just encourages dropping more healers (which is something blizz really don't like to do - and as a healer myself, I don't like it either)

[Catastrophy349]

There’s certainly a lot that they can do with Dragonflight lore wise. People hated BFA (I didn’t but I understand their reasons); however, while they shoved too many stories into one expansion, it did open up a lot of possibilities for future expansions (in other words, expansions post BFA (SL, DF, etc.)). So, I’m curious to see more Old God stuff, Azshara, Xal, maybe Pantheon (Illidan and Sargeras, too) eventually, and of course, the remnants of Dragon lore (Wrathion story, Kalec story, Ysera’s “daughter’s” story, Nozdormu——>Murozond story, and Alexstrasza story).

[Hitei]

I do think there is a valid concern in that we are seeing a lot of potentially exceptional utility BUT that utility takes many forms. Mark of the Wild vs PI vs Restless Crew is problematic. You only need 1 druid for Mark. You need an outlaw rogue per group for Restless Crew and people who are stuck in groups without the outlaw rogue will feel like crap (and potentially would want a different build depending on if they'll have the buff or not). As for PI we already know what problems PI creates. I love the utility but I'd rather have utility that doesn't cause social issues.

Again, it's just Door of Shadows.

Sure, in some hypothetical that only really exists in a top 150 guild, you will have DPS changing their talent setup dependent on whether or not a rogue is in their party, in the unlikely event that the amount of time shaved off that particular ONE offensive ability for their spec and class is enough time difference to optimize some other slightly different talent spec more focused on that singular ability--putting aside that it would require that one ability to become more DPS contributive from that probably ~<15-20% CDR than whatever existing ability setup is mandating your not-Restless talent setup AND ignoring that in all likelihood, if it is a major contributive spell, you're already built around it anyone so all that CDR doesn't do anything but allow you to hit it a few more times in an encounter.

But that does not reflect the actual reality of group dynamics, anymore than every tank in the game is respeccing each time they join a group to compensate for the significantly different toolkits and healing styles of various healers, or vice versa. Just like no one is trying to optimized skip a trash pack by carefully teleporting every 60 seconds in a M+

You are not going to feel like crap not being in that rogue group, because that rogue could be spending 5CP every five seconds, and at the end of a 10 minute encounter you might have hit a 1.5min CD one time less, or a 45 min CD ~3 times less in that 10 minute fight than someone in that party. You know what the people in that part also have to deal with? That CD getting progressively skewed away from their normal combat rhythm because every time a rogue finishing moves it slides it farther from where the CD would normally land. If anything I think you'd feel worse being in that party than having a few ability uses or maybe one CD use less. Because now their 45s CD and 1.5min CD aren't lining up every other time, because the 45s CD is effectively ~37 seconds and will literally never, ever line up again even assuming the rogue somehow kept a perfectly constant rate of CP usage the entire fight.

But it doesn't actually matter, because in all likelihood, while those group members are awkwardly playing their fucked up rotation to get those extra couple presses in, you have, for example, a shaman in your group whose new iteration windfury totem is bumping your DPS by nearly as much as you'd get from that CDR anyway, or are being time-echoed by an Evoker in your group to sometimes duplicate attacks such that you're out DPSing that CDR, because who knows what is actually going to be of value on the trees in terms of group comp until all the trees are there.

The overwhelming issue with Power Infusion is not that it's so brokenly OP that every group in existence is compelled to ignore all other classes and field 20% of the group as priests, it's that priests feel shitty using it because its nature means that optimization involves you frequently using a fun CD that you'd really like to use for your DPS on someone else who is doing slightly higher damage instead. A problem the talent trees are clearly trying to side-step by making those sorts of effects duplicate on you.

[Kiria]

We need a visage blog to show how we can customize our visage when out of combat, this is highly important and needed to be reviewed!