Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nagawithlegs]

What is with the constant and nonstop hateposting? It's tiresome.

Discuss upcoming content and speculate or fuck off.

[TomatoBisque]

What is with the constant and nonstop hateposting? It's tiresome.

Discuss upcoming content and speculate or fuck off.

these people are addicted; they're not having fun but don't actually have other hobbies so they just come here to whine about how the one they do have has been ruined

[Makabreska]

You kidding?

Took note of 9.1.5? That's no outside issues, it's them scrambling to salvage playerbase fleeing like mad. No it's not a lawsuit, that's just icing on the cake of their general mismanagement of their IP over last 5 years.

Is it really mismanagement, when their revenue keeps rising? It may be all very well planned business model. Suffer sub loss, but make the games in a way that generates more money (and then fix the known issues to lure people back). Let's not forget whose the boss of Acti-Blizz.
What's the other explanation for repeating same stuff 3rd expansion in a row?

[Gaidax]

these people are addicted; they're not having fun but don't actually have other hobbies so they just come here to whine about how the one they do have has been ruined

Ehhhhhh?

What's there to praise in current state of WoW pray tell? That they still have great raiding and did not manage to destroy that one too yet? Good job, I guess?

One of the things many hope for in 9.2, but realistically 10.0 is that they get over their bullshit of last 5 years that caught up to them and make a game worthy of title World of Warcraft.

I, personally, am pretty fair about Blizzard - if you look at my history, vast majority of it was positive about Blizzard, even rationalizing their questionable shit. But so it happens that things simply grow on you, there is just one too many failures as of late to defend or rationalize and sometimes, especially for sake of 9.2 and 10.0 - it's better to give them some frank thoughts instead of yet another round of mental gymnastics trying to make things appear better than they really are.

And by the way, I have fun in WoW in raiding and social aspect that comes with it. Does not mean I automatically have to slurp down all their obvious bullshit in core systems and decisions they do over the years. They just made one too many fuckups for me to shill for them as I used to.

I don't have expectations for 9.2. But for 10.0? Big ones... Make a fucking good 10.0, then we'll see if we get to reset.

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Is it really mismanagement, when their revenue keeps rising? It may be all very well planned business model. Suffer sub loss, but make the games in a way that generates more money (and then fix the known issues to lure people back). Let's not forget whose the boss of Acti-Blizz.
What's the other explanation for repeating same stuff 3rd expansion in a row?

KEKW...

I won't even dignify this a response.

[Makabreska]

KEKW...

I won't even dignify this a response.

Sure, if you can't come up with one. That's okay.

[Gaidax]

Sure, if you can't come up with one. That's okay.

More like it was refuted so many times already that I don't even know how one can put that crap up with a straight face. I'll just put it right here, over last 5 years Activision tripled their MAUs... Blizzard halved and lost much of their leadership in process bailing like rats from the sinking ship even before the lawsuit.

Great success there, exceptional management. But hey, they can do some remasters and cash shop crap to keep $$ flowing from the dwindling playerbase, that a win, bois.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Its none of the above really. this 9.1.5 isn't some scramble unless you think people at Blizz are all mindless drones who speak in "TIME TO MAKE MONEY"

[Makabreska]

More like it was refuted so many times already that I don't even know how one can put that crap up with a straight face. I'll just put it right here, over last 5 years Activision tripled their MAUs... Blizzard halved and lost much of their leadership in process bailing like rats from the sinking ship even before the lawsuit.

Great success there, exceptional management. But hey, they can do some remasters and cash shop crap to keep $$ flowing from the dwindling playerbase, that a win, bois.

You talking about Acti-Blizz in total? Because blizzard lost 20mil MAUs since 2017 (from 46mil). And we already know that some of the leadership bail was due to already ongoing harassment investigation. And yes, it is a win in the eyes of CEOs and shareholders if you still make money.

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Its none of the above really. this 9.1.5 isn't some scramble unless you think people at Blizz are all mindless drones who speak in "TIME TO MAKE MONEY"

No, it's par for the course for xpac. Release features with well known obstacles, then remove them later to retain player base. Only this time it may come earlier than ever due to outside factors.

[Gaidax]

You talking about Acti-Blizz in total? Because blizzard lost 20mil MAUs since 2017 (from 46mil). And we already know that some of the leadership bail was due to already ongoing harassment investigation. And yes, it is a win in the eyes of CEOs and shareholders if you still make money.

No, I'm talking Activision only and Blizzard only. Activision got up from ~40m to ~150m, Blizzard from 46m to 20m over same time...

If you think it's not a failure, just because they manage to somewhat compensate and squeeze a bit more bookings from ever dwindling playerbase. I don't know what to say then.

This shit is dire and it's result of Blizzard not knowing what the fuck they are doing across their whole business last 5 years. You don't lose half of your fucking customer-base and get a pat on the back for good management, no matter how much you try to massage quarterly report to make performance appear not as horrible as it is.

"Whelp, despite losing half of our playerbase across all Blizzard games last 5 years, we managed to not lose that much money with tricks and shticks, damn we're good."

And you tell me management is good - we eat this shit and the good way to approach it is what is happening last 2-3 months with giant shitstorm that will hopefully shake them out of their letargy.

[Cosmic Janitor]

No, it's par for the course for xpac. Release features with well known obstacles, then remove them later to retain player base. Only this time it may come later than ever due to outside factors.

Is it really later? For something that was planned as a core feature for the whole expansion it actually came rather early. Legendaries in Legion went through multiple iterations until the damn vendor finally came at the end of the expansion. Azerite was a bit different, since the 2nd iteration kinda stuck and the system was overshadowed by the 2nd and 3rd system that they stacked on top of it by the end, which will probably not happen this time as domination sockets are already marked with a death date.

Either way, for a feature of that size the complete break down is actually rather early (we can even mog cross covenant, that usually happens after the current expansion). They really were desperate this time and pulled out all the stops.


Also discussing such things is very much on topic, the current state of the game and Blizzard's behaviour is pretty much the biggest thing we have to go on as basis for speculation.

[Makabreska]

Is it really later? For something that was planned as a core feature for the whole expansion it actually came rather early. Legendaries in Legion went through multiple iterations until the damn vendor finally came at the end of the expansion. Azerite was a bit different, since the 2nd iteration kinda stuck and the system was overshadowed by the 2nd and 3rd system that they stacked on top of it by the end, which will probably not happen this time as domination sockets are already marked with a death date.

I meant "early", actually.

[Nagawithlegs]

Just noticed they refer to renown 80 as "max renown". They may just mean max as of now, but perhaps because the feature is so definitive (you "maxxed out" your covenant so you can play other) maybe we aren't getting more renown stuff in 9.2?

[Cosmic Janitor]

I meant "early", actually.

Ah, nvm then.

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They could still use it. It is an effective time gate, the question is more if they want to keep adding to the covenants as such in 9.2 or will they do the usual and abandon most of it for the (probably) final major patch? Frankly I'm not sure I care much for more champions I have to level once again or unlocking boring conduit upgrades. The 9.1 levels of 41-80 are already kinda forced imho and not very exciting. I guess they could time gate stuff differently if they don't have many small things that they want to lock down, as the campaign might as well just be a weekly thing like in the past. Heck they could even do the thing they did in Suramar and cap it by reputation with fixed gains.

[Sondrelk]

The thing about the questionable business decisions is that if it makes money then it is doing something right.
If witholding seemingly crucial buffs or improvements to core systems is what is needed to keep the playerbase stable, if annoyed, then who knows if it is better in the long-term.
Sure, it damages the brand and the faith the consumers have in the developers, so it's probably not a good long-term strategy, but since when has corporate culture been about long-term investment anyways.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Just noticed they refer to renown 80 as "max renown". They may just mean max as of now, but perhaps because the feature is so definitive (you "maxxed out" your covenant so you can play other) maybe we aren't getting more renown stuff in 9.2?

Mayhaps but, I wouldn't say its set in stone. I wouldn't be upset about it.

[Nagawithlegs]

I have a feeling that the return of Tier Sets will be tied to the art team being freed up from covenant themed mounts and outfits. 9.2 could be the end of the renown system as well as the end of expansion.

[Sondrelk]

Just noticed they refer to renown 80 as "max renown". They may just mean max as of now, but perhaps because the feature is so definitive (you "maxxed out" your covenant so you can play other) maybe we aren't getting more renown stuff in 9.2?

Saying max renonwn doesnt preclude them adding more renown later and for the renown neede to swap staying at 80. Though it sure would be construed that way by the playerbase, nothing seems to be as stimulating to the general WOW forumgoer than to take someting said as a developer and applying it to every situation in which it could be even remotely applicable, even better when they get the exact quote wrong like how some on Reddit called Blizzard liars for supposedly going back on not giving heritage armors every X.X.5 patch, despite such a promise never being made.

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I have a feeling that the return of Tier Sets will be tied to the art team being freed up from covenant themed mounts and outfits. 9.2 could be the end of the renown system as well as the end of expansion.

I doubt the Renown system will go away. I'm sure there will be something that Blizzard can put into it, as rewards beside more Soulbind upgrades. If nothing else they will keep using it to continue gatekeeping the questlines more organically.

The Renown system is in my opinion the best idea Blizzard has had in years, and I really hope we see something similar in 10.0.

[Makabreska]

I have a feeling that the return of Tier Sets will be tied to the art team being freed up from covenant themed mounts and outfits. 9.2 could be the end of the renown system as well as the end of expansion.

Let's actually hope that sets are coming as promised in SL, because current situation makes promises spoken more than a year ago not a very solid ground.

[Sondrelk]

Let's actually hope that sets are coming as promised in SL, because current situation makes words spoken more than a year ago not a very solid ground.

The work to make them should have already started back when he said that, so unless they straight up decide on making 4 of the sets the generic sets and scrap the rest I doubt they would go back on it.

[Makabreska]

The work to make them should have already started back when he said that, so unless they straight up decide on making 4 of the sets the generic sets and scrap the rest I doubt they would go back on it.

I dunno what's up with them, because Dom Shards work very well like sets. Are they testing something? What for? People wanted sets that worked as always for more than a decade.