1. #63381
    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    Just give us more customization options for "older" races. Doesn't need to be horns but more hair colors and styles some scars and jewelry would go a long way. Maybe even something like greyscale from GoT to get the scaley look.
    I think that's what they implied. Pandaren raised the bar with customization, next expac (WoD) everyone else was slowly brought up to par or better. Then they've been doing the same until most of the races currently have a solid level. Now with Drac'thyr they are raising the bar again and in future expacs (hopefully as soon as the next one) we will see broader customization yet again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Last time I checked GTA games were rated as 18+ content. And yeah, I don't really care for these and wouldn't mind if they stopped to produce new ones lol.

    And I could argue that "being a gangster who steals cars" is less problematic than people who hunt rare innocent animals and put their heads on a spike for fun. That's just disgusting.
    I mean in one game it's pretty clear you are a criminal. Hemet is celebrated for what he did to appease some previous century colonialist/anglosaxon archetype about (white) human control of their "destiny" and nature which for some reason the dudebros who made WoW felt was worth appeasing?

  2. #63382
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Last time I checked GTA games were rated as 18+ content. And yeah, I don't really care for these and wouldn't mind if they stopped to produce new ones lol.

    And I could argue that "being a gangster who steals cars" is less problematic than people who hunt rare innocent animals and put their heads on a spike for fun.
    I mean you don't just steal cars in GTA. You can literally shoot hundreds of people willy nilly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean in one game it's pretty clear you are a criminal. Hemet is celebrated for what he did to appease some previous century colonialist/anglosaxon archetype about (white) human control of their "destiny" and nature which for some reason the dudebros who made WoW felt was worth appeasing?
    I don't think it's that deep honestly. They just had a jungle zone and thought to add a "safari" quest or whatever. I always disliked those quests because they seemed neverending. Just quest after quest, was pretty boring.

    But anyway, this discussion reminds me of a video I saw once during Cata where this lady was complaining that WoW was a satanic game because in the Nelf starting zone the first quests make you go murder wild animals.

  3. #63383
    Bloodsail Admiral Plehnard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Last time I checked GTA games were rated as 18+ content. And yeah, I don't really care for these and wouldn't mind if they stopped to produce new ones lol.
    Isn't that a bit hypocritical from some one who has a Adeptus Mechanicus Avatar? When it comes to dark content W40k is at the very forefront with raping/enslaving dark space elves, a rotten human imperium where people get mind wipes and turned into floating servo skulls (like the one you have in your avatar picture), chaos gods that thrive on war, pestilence, lust end deceive.

    There's room for darker content in every universe and considering how warcraft started it's getting a bit too tame/friendly.

  4. #63384
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Ehm, yes there was a problem with it. If you can't see it you are part of the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "hunting animals for fun" part came from Afrasiabi himself.

    Good riddance. I don't want the glorification of mounting rare animals on a spike for fun in WoW. (and for thouse who liked it, the old quests are still in the game. Atleast they actually made a positive message instead of deleting the old content like they did with other problematic stuff)
    No, there was no problem with it. It's a video game and not a moral compass on how to act in real life. We're slaying animals in video games for decades now. That's what a video game is about. We kill people in video games for decades now. That's not glorification of war or violence. This take on the medium is so incredibly outdated and cringe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Yeah hunting stuff for survival is a fair game. Killing animals for fun and trophies is disgusting though and shouldn't in any way be glorified.
    How can you even play WoW?
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  5. #63385
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plehnard View Post
    Isn't that a bit hypocritical from some one who has a Adeptus Mechanicus Avatar? When it comes to dark content W40k is at the very forefront with raping/enslaving dark space elves, a rotten human imperium where people get mind wipes and turned into floating servo skulls (like the one you have in your avatar picture), chaos gods that thrive on war, pestilence, lust end deceive.

    There's room for darker content in every universe and considering how warcraft started it's getting a bit too tame/friendly.
    ???

    There is a difference between having dark content and glorifying dark content in a way that makes it appear to actually be good. No one looks at the Imperium in 40k or the Dark Eldar and thinks "yes, the good guys". In comparison the whole Nessingwary questlines in WoW were problematic because you know, the dude was clearly the hero of said quests and presented as an actually "good guy". To quote Nymrohd:

    Hemet is celebrated for what he did to appease some previous century colonialist/anglosaxon archetype about (white) human control of their "destiny" and nature which for some reason the dudebros who made WoW felt was worth appeasing?
    Also, I can still like 18+ content but also think that WoW shouldn't have any problematic content presented as "good".

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  6. #63386
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think it's different in Red Dead Redemption where you very much hunt to survive and eat and what Hemet does which is hunt entirely for the pleasure of killing and collecting trophies. At no point is the concern survival.
    And it musn't be? It's a video game. With this logic we would have basically zero TV shows, movies and vide games. Or anything else that's not deemed correct by the moral police.
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  7. #63387
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    And it musn't be? It's a video game. With this logic we would have basically zero TV shows, movies and vide games. Or anything else that's not deemed correct by the moral police.
    Well the thing is, Blizzard agrees with us and disagrees with you. The Nessingwary quests were a remnant of the old team and the new team literally retired him and changed his point of view about hunting animals for fun. Which is a good change =)

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  8. #63388
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    So, Nesingwary is now retired.


    But still works for the expedition.
    Well, isn't that quite interesting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean in one game it's pretty clear you are a criminal. Hemet is celebrated for what he did to appease some previous century colonialist/anglosaxon archetype about (white) human control of their "destiny" and nature which for some reason the dudebros who made WoW felt was worth appeasing?
    I don't quite think that big game hunting is wholly a remnant of a colonial period. I think it's a fundamental overreaction to the "Great White Hunter" archetype, which has long since been retired. I wouldn't go so far as to portray hunting for fun as a fundamentally immature or evil action, especially given that controlled hunting can sometimes actually be good for the environment when placed under sufficient oversight—it's good to remember that Big Game Hunting and poaching (which was, notably, what Hemet was actually doing) are different.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2022-07-18 at 12:00 PM.

  9. #63389
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    There is a difference between having dark content and glorifying dark content in a way that makes it appear to actually be good. No one looks at the Imperium in 40k or the Dark Eldar and thinks "yes, the good guys". In comparison the whole Nessingwary questlines in WoW were problematic because you know, the dude was clearly the hero of said quests and presented as an actually "good guy". To quote Nymrohd:
    I didn´t see Hemmet as a good guy in Classic or bc, he was just a crazy Hunter.
    In WotLK, Blizzard themself made that clear with the DEHTA quets. And in BfA Blizzard showed other Problems with Hemmet.
    If you see him as a Hero/Good guy, isn´t that your wrong take on it?

    Edit: also, if I´ve seen it right on alpha lifestreams, Blizzard did portrait Hemmit this time in a way, that he tries to seek redemption.
    Last edited by sandini; 2022-07-18 at 11:59 AM.

  10. #63390
    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    Hemet Nessingwary turning from a Big Game Hunter into a Conservation Hunter/Game Warden wasn't the character development I expected for him. Though I suppose I wasn't expecting any at all for him so that's not hard.
    I really like that, actually. As was aforementioned, it's a very, very good (if a little one-dimensional, going the other direction from blind criticism to the most simple, black-and-white situations) representation of ethical hunting, which is usually very helpful and good for the ecosystem. I think this is a very good and realistic representation of this sort of thing and vastly beyond my expectations for Blizzard.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2022-07-18 at 12:03 PM.

  11. #63391
    Some people are taking a video game way too seriously thinking that hunting in a game will encourage you to hunt INRL, I mean seriously.. stop and think about what you are saying and realise you are being stupid.

  12. #63392
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Well the thing is, Blizzard agrees with us and disagrees with you. The Nessingwary quests were a remnant of the old team and the new team literally retired him and changed his point of view about hunting animals for fun. Which is a good change =)
    Good that you know that Blizzard agrees with you and disagrees with me, lol.
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  13. #63393
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And in no way dealt with the fact that Hemet's trophy hunting is also very problematic. Journey to new lands, kill everything that cannot talk in massive numbers, mount their heads on your mantle is not a great message.

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    Judging by how they addressed anything else in game, it would be the most patronizing shit ever. Let's not. Leave that to writers competent at social issues.
    It's tricky subject to deal with but it doesn't mean that it's too much. Plenty tv shows manage to touch it accurately

  14. #63394
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Some people are taking a video game way too seriously thinking that hunting in a game will encourage you to hunt INRL, I mean seriously.. stop and think about what you are saying and realise you are being stupid.
    It's a decade old debate usually regurgitated by conservatives, but a few years ago the moral police has entered this fight and taken over. It's ridiculous when you read the arguments that were brought up by conservatives 10 years ago and are now used by leftist to justify their content-purge in media.
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  15. #63395
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    It's a decade old debate usually regurgitated by conservatives, but a few years ago the moral police has entered this fight and taken over. It's ridiculous when you read the arguments that were brought up by conservatives 10 years ago and are now used by leftist to justify their content-purge in media.
    I think it's not a liberal or conservative thing, just a values thing. People like to police content because they believe that it reflects poorly upon how people behave—while video games only very rarely impact people's behavior for better or worse, people like to envision themselves as enlightened arbiters of what is acceptable and what is fundamentally wrong. Nobody does this out of malice, of course, they legitimately believe their values are simply better and ought to be reflected in media.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Judging by how they addressed anything else in game, it would be the most patronizing shit ever. Let's not. Leave that to writers competent at social issues.
    See: Pelagos, who satisfied exactly nobody by trying to handle a lofty topic in a video game, much less one with very iffy writing. People on one side of the culture war were hugely incensed by his presence at all, others thought he was handled terribly and disrespectfully to the topic matter. Everybody agreed he was terrible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Idk, they kept bringing him back year after year. Probably felt like it wasn't that bad.
    I'd say it's just as much an overreaction to want everything to do with a certain topic explicitly bombarded with a strong message of "this is bad" is no more or less questionable than leaving the whole topic unaddressed at all. It's also not something that's desirable to want to put a big sign over anything that doesn't perfectly reflect a certain set of values to ensure that everybody knows how bad and wrong this given thing is.
    Last edited by Le Conceptuel; 2022-07-18 at 12:14 PM.

  16. #63396
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Some people are taking a video game way too seriously thinking that hunting in a game will encourage you to hunt INRL, I mean seriously.. stop and think about what you are saying and realise you are being stupid.
    This is such an outdated take on video games. Its the argument from the 90s that you do in video games what you secretly always wanted to do like shooting people, killing animals etc. Some even argued that you train in video games for real life.

    The new Monster hunter has sold 3 million copies in the last two weeks and i don't see people going out there killing animals to wear their fur.
    I too believe that hunting for fun is an absurd idea, but i also know that video games very very rarely influence behavior. The absolute majority can differentiate between what is reality and what is a video game.

  17. #63397
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I think it's not a liberal or conservative thing, just a values thing. People like to police content because they believe that it reflects poorly upon how people behave—while video games only very rarely impact people's behavior for better or worse, people like to envision themselves as enlightened arbiters of what is acceptable and what is fundamentally wrong. Nobody does this out of malice, of course, they legitimate believe their values are simply better and ought to be reflected in media.
    It definitely is a hot and despicable topic that doesn't belong in this thread. That's for sure.
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  18. #63398
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Seeing the quest he's offering, we should all celebrate his retirement.

    As it means that we no longer have to suffer through his attrociously long murder spree questlines.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  19. #63399
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    It definitely is a hot and despicable topic that doesn't belong in this thread. That's for sure.
    But isn't that you were hinting at? All I did was elucidate on something you were already saying.

  20. #63400
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    But isn't that you were hinting at? All I did was elucidate on something you were already saying.
    Oh you're completely right in what you've said, I just didn't want to further drown this thread in this topic.
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