1. #63601
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Page 13 Aggramar makes the first elemental on Draenor, named grond
    Grond isn't an elemental. He is a Titan creation that was created with elemental energy. Go read page 12 it says that the excess spirit caused all of the elementals to lose physical form. Also why would the sporemounds consuming spirit cause their enemies to form bodies? That doesn't even make sense as the Evergrowth also was not a elemental.

    Lmao. It is crazy the lengths you are going to so you don't have to admit you were wrong.

    https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

    "An abundance of the fifth element--the Spirit of Life-- had saturated the world. This force had a natural calming effect on the elemental spirits. It tempered their violent nature, and it even prevented them from taking on physical forms. The fifth element had another, far more extraordinary effect on Dreanor. It accelerated the growth of flora and fauna. It made the world into a cradle of vibrant, untamed life."

    That is from page 12 and it doesn't indicate that elementals became flesh and bone. It indicates the opposite. And yet somehow you think that page proves your argument with nothing else needed. Strange, right? Dreanor is unique because it didn't have its planetary evolution shaped by Elementals but instead by sentient plants.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  2. #63602
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    The updated human buildings in the files continue in Dragonflight!

    https://twitter.com/raiden_ssjv/stat..._FSLpnPQjIr8bg
    This whole situation remembers me of this:

    https://ptr.wowhead.com/blue-tracker...5-4-9281758454

    While I'm not sure if this datamined scenario was indeed paving the ground for the BFA warfront, since it showed up on game files four years before BFA got announced, it's still intriguing.
    Back to Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms!

  3. #63603
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Grond isn't an elemental. He is a Titan creation that was created with elemental energy. Go read page 12 it says that the excess spirit caused all of the elementals to lose physical form. Also why would the sporemounds consuming spirit cause their enemies to form bodies? That doesn't even make sense as the Evergrowth also was not a elemental.
    Sigh..

    Page 13, the continuation of the page 12 section

    page 15 a picture grond fighting the sporemound

    but lets say the literally walking mountain isn't a elemental, page 16 still explicitly tells us that the sporemounds ate enough spirit that the elementals were able to take on physicals form and that the "countless physical elementals emerged from grond's mountainous remains".

    but again I must not care about the lore given that I'm *checks notes* directly sourcing blizzard proving you wrong over multiple pages instead of just sticking to page 12.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #63604
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    but again I must not care about the lore given that I'm *checks notes* directly sourcing blizzard proving you wrong over multiple pages instead of just sticking to page 12.
    Because you are saying that excessive spirit causes elementals to turn into flesh and bone "organics". Nothing you have provided indicates that because it wasn't the spirit on Dreanor that created Grond. It was a Titan. Elemental energy is not the same thing as an elemental. Azeroth is still full of elemental energy even though the elementals were locked up in a prison.

    The lore, page 12, that you provide proves the opposite. That excessive spirit actually causes them to lose form and turn into "ghosts". The opposite of flesh and blood. Lmao.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #63605
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Because you are saying that excess spirit causes elementals to turn into flesh and bone "organics". Nothing you have provided indicates that because it wasn't the spirit on Dreanor that created Grond. It was a Titan. Elemental energy is not the same thing as an elemental. Azeroth is still full of elemental energy even though the eementals were locked up in a prison.
    Just gonna quote my self as I already did the leg work.

    Even if you want to say grond doesn't count that doesn't make the pages after that were blizzard directly and explicitly tells us what happened with the elements and spirit go away.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  6. #63606
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Even if you want to say grond doesn't count that doesn't make the pages after that were blizzard directly and explicitly tells us what happened with the elements and spirit go away.
    Repeating yourself still doesn't change that it never states spirit causes Elementals to become flesh and bone. We have lore that says it causes them to lose their physical form but they still remain Elementals.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #63607
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Repeating yourself still doesn't change that it never states spirit causes Elementals to become flesh and bone. We have lore that says it causes them to lose their physical form but they still remain Elementals.
    your right, unfortunately no matter how many time I directly link blizzard proving you wrong I can't actually make you read it.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  8. #63608
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    your right, unfortunately no matter how many time I directly link blizzard proving you wrong I can't actually make you read it.
    You do realize you were the first to bring up Page 12. So I've clearly read what Blizzard has wrote on the subject and what you've provided. Colossals have skeletons. So they, and their descendants, are not elementals. They are merely titan-forged of Dreanor that were eventually changed by the spores of the Evergrowth. Yes it used the spirit of life but it wasn't interact with elementals. The spores were the natural "curse of flesh" of Dreanor.

    You've yet to provide a source that states Elementals turned to flesh by spirit. You can't and you won't because page 12 already covered what large amounts of spirit cause. Elementals to be unable to have physical forms.

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Colossal
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Grom%27gar
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #63609
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Colossals have skeletons. So they, and their descendants, are not elementals.
    Got to love that you said I didn't care about the lore yet you didn't bother to check any of it not even on wowpedia.

    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #63610
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Got to love that you said I didn't care about the lore yet you didn't bother to check any of it not even on wowpedia.
    A legend when the lore you've provided also says they all died. Weird isn't that? It doesn't matter though since they are not elementals but titan-forged. Chronicles makes perfectly clear that Dreanor was unique in that Elementals didn't shape the early planet. Plant life did. Plants that worried a Titan so much he created constructs to defeat and destroy it.

    You don't care about lore because you keep ignoring the lore that states the Dreanor elementals were made incorporeal by the high amounts of spirit. As long as you keep arguing a point that contradicts that you are ignoring lore.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #63611
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    As long as you keep arguing a point that contradicts that you are ignoring lore.
    It's only a contradiction if you think chronicles ends with page 12 and that all the pages after that don't exist.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  12. #63612
    Mechagnome Akta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    The updated human buildings in the files continue in Dragonflight!

    https://twitter.com/raiden_ssjv/stat..._FSLpnPQjIr8bg
    Maybe this has something to do with the gnoll war which map they datamined
    ...Le Poète est semblable au prince des nuées
    Qui hante la tempête e se rit de l'archer;
    Exilé sul le sol au milieu des huées,
    Ses ailes de géant l'empêchent de marcher.

    Charles Baudelaire

  13. #63613
    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    I suppose it seems a little odd to me that between this reaction and the idea that Visage form increases the party's out-of-combat regen by making the party feel more comfortable, they seem to be treating Dracthyr as these horrific monsters that even your own allies are nervous to be next to for too long, when imo they're really not that offensive.

    I mean I guess from the perspective of someone living IN Azeroth you're looking at a giant carnivorous reptile with a history of manipulation and almost destroying the world, but it seems weird these responses seem almost more hostile than the initial welcoming to Death Knights and Demon Hunters despite them being way worse on a cosmic-powers sense than just dragons.

    Maybe there'll be some extra context to come out of the Dracthyr starter zone we're lacking.
    They're also the result of Deathwing's work (though back when he was Neltharion, I guess). SHouldn't be surprising that the Alliance is wary of anything involving Deathwing.

  14. #63614
    So anybody know if an account still flagged for SL beta is less or more likely to get DF beta??

    Also while we know we are fighting in the prison of the primal dragons it seems like we won't be fighting them so we might lose...which is an awesome idea because they are equivalent to powered up aspects of which we have none until that weird moon thing

  15. #63615
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akta View Post
    Maybe this has something to do with the gnoll war which map they datamined
    I'll be very mad if they made a bunch of new Elwynn assets only to use it for an instance of the actual zone.



  16. #63616
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    I'll be very mad if they made a bunch of new Elwynn assets only to use it for an instance of the actual zone.
    I'm thinking it will be a later feature like the murloc northrend map
    Think torghast but a different time line

  17. #63617
    Pit Lord boyzma's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Forum Man;53845845]So anybody know if an account still flagged for SL beta is less or more likely to get DF beta??

    It doesn't give you a foot up if that's what you want to know. Blizzard I'm sure doesn't give brownie points for each one you're in. I've had beta for all but 2 and that includes 1 alpha but nothing for the last 2 expansions.

  18. #63618
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    Looks like WoWhead dug up some new dialogue related to the start of the expansion.

    Apparently the Alliance is particularly shitty to Dracthyr and the idea of helping the dragons, with Turalyon, who was only around when dragons meant Bad Things and read up on Onyxia in hindsight, being red-flag-level paranoid about Dracthyr integrating too deeply into the Alliance's society to the point of telling Shaw he wants mages to develop ways to out dragons in Visage form.

    Well, guess there's your incentive to make your Evokers go Horde.
    Well, DK's had much worse reaction, but it only lasted a whole 5 min. SW citizens reaction is logical, and it is a nice peace of world building.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-07-16 at 08:20 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  19. #63619
    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    Looks like WoWhead dug up some new dialogue related to the start of the expansion.

    Apparently the Alliance is particularly shitty to Dracthyr and the idea of helping the dragons, with Turalyon, who was only around when dragons meant Bad Things and read up on Onyxia in hindsight, being red-flag-level paranoid about Dracthyr integrating too deeply into the Alliance's society to the point of telling Shaw he wants mages to develop ways to out dragons in Visage form.

    Well, guess there's your incentive to make your Evokers go Horde.
    The way Turalyon talks to Shaw seems really authoritarian with some low-key racist vibes. It's one thing to be cautious, but to intentionally develop ways to out dragons is scary. Tbf what can you expect from a guy who practices torture during interrogations of ordinary civilians?

  20. #63620
    To be honest this time expansion is so close that I don't even want Beta. Still has some goals left for SL and I usually don't play much/at all few months before release.

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