Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Completely missing the point of that post aside, this isn't quite correct. They are all just different subraces of aqir.

Actually, I'd say not to get too carried away with the semantics there—this seems less relevant if you take Occam's Razor to the fact that there the Aqir of Ny'Alotha are specified as "Aqir", something which we've not seen applied to any of the other Aqiri-derivative races. Add to that how these races are specifically referred to as Silithid and Nerubians during the Zek'voz battle, it is implicitly suggested that these are, in fact, recognized as specific races that are distinct from the Aqir as they originally were.

"Now, Le Conceptuel," you may say, "what does that say about anything? It could simply be that those Aqir are simply the original culture of Aqir who have not taken on the cultural monikers of the Mantid, Nerubians, etc." That's a fair point, but I'll further counter that these all consist a single set of Aqir, with no races identical to the Nerubians, Mantid, and Qiraji as would be suggested by those races being simply Aqir under a different culture.

This one could simply be a case of model reuse, and likely is, but I would also add that we even see the evolutionary predecessors to different races among the Nerubians, Mantid, and Qiraji—a common link, for instance, between the Nerubian Seers and Mantid Empresses can be seen in one specimen, and another is derivative of the common Nerubians when we don't see an equivalent so close among the Qiraji or Mantid. This is something of a stretch, but I figure it could also add to that.

Another counter I could think of is that the Nerubians and Qiraji both appear in a fight in Uldir, which is admittedly a good point—why would the Titans have specimens of those two races if they didn't exist before the supposed split? Well, the issue with that is that they are also referred to explicitly as Nerubians and Qiraji, so that means that the Titan Watchers there must've been at least aware of the Nerubian and Qiraji cultures, consequently meaning that it is also possible they somehow procured that information after these races spread out. There would've been a good period of time in which observation could take place on a singular landmass and procurement would not be too difficult. It also raises the question of what the real name of the Aqir under N'Zoth are, as if they were meant to just be a single strain, they would likely have a name of their own. On top of that, I would also add that Blizzard is not exactly ever keen to rely on semantics to clarify something—if the Aqir had multiple subraces before the split, it would've been communicated very openly instead of left to this matter of interpretation.

In summation, Occam's Razor states that the Aqir are likely their own race simply because the Aqir under N'Zoth are never specified as anything but Aqir and, conversely, the Nerubians, Qiraji and Mantid are never called Aqir outside of a particular period of time in Chronicles which is an interim period which would've taken place before any divergent evolution could occur.

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Probably assuming about DF's plot but my guess at least Alliance side, maybe some areas that weren't Blue before are going to be Blue now as Turalyon might want more land and well that can always translate to new content in the future if need be. As I said, I think its all heading up to a royal crisis of sorts. Anduin gets over his(dumb doubt nonsense). At the same time the Light arrives(This is all speculation so bear with me) to sorta spread their whole doctrine and what not. Both factions have different reactions.


Alliance will be more welcoming as Turalyon will probably open the gates for the naaru and the Light zealots in and it may get awkward and uncomfortable with how "Forceful" the zealots are. This ends up in Conflict because Anduin will be ready to come back home and be King again, people are happy and such. The Light's zealots will be sorta meeting with Turalyon or wherevfer on Azeroth and well based on Xe'ra and the past, the Light is going to look bad(Because we really needed this development -_-) and well Paladins may feel awkward after all of this.

Anyways when the time comes Turalyon(and that one Holy Dreadlord dude who is probably but could be wrong, misleading Turalyon and even influence him). Anduin attempts to take the throne rightfully(He is Varian's heir, no bits about it). Turalyon doesn't back down and refuses, its lazy and just Blue Horde but I am not gonna act shocked if it happens :/

I'm honestly fairly certain that's not what's going to happen—there seems to be a buildup more to a schism in the Light, as odd as that is, and it seems like the Light's not strictly been villain batted. It seems more like it's building up to the idea that some of the Light's followers have a different interpretation of its singular will.

I'd also say that this is certainly not going to happen this expansion—I expect Yrel to show up later on, but in the expansion following Dragonflight. If there's an internal threat in the Alliance, it'll probably be the Scarlet Brotherhood because they have a thematic link to the expansion in their implicitly-Draconic heir.

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Bolivar doesn't look the same and we don't know what getting revived with the light did to Calia in terms of her memory

Plus she used a fake name while married so prepare for the totally not obvious reveal

I don't know—voices stay the same, and Calia was certainly recognizable face-wise. I doubt somebody could bare somebody's child and then not be recognized due to a pale complexion and a different name.

[Revamp Man]

]



I don't know—voices stay the same, and Calia was certainly recognizable face-wise. I doubt somebody could bare somebody's child and then not be recognized due to a pale complexion and a different name.

It's also been a decade and he's been mentally screwed with for a while believing for about 20 years that his wife was a lowborne nobody who died

This is also a good point to counter the scarlet crusade who's using a boy as their supposed heir while we know it was a girl

Now take the following into account
Calia
1. Married a soldier (can't remember if she mentioned his looks)
2. Has a daughter
3. Believes them to be lost in a scourge attack
4. Disguised herself as a commoner during her life before the attack

Bolvar
1. Married a woman he believed to be a commoner
2. Was a soldier at the Time
3. Believes his wife to have been lost in a scourge attack

Now people say "you never know what blizzard is going to pull" but we've seen leaks made that talked about going to the dragon isles and their being a power struggle in the black flight, anduin being rescued by his daddies, most of BfA, the true identity of the runecarver, the thing that broke the arbiter, zovall being the original arbiter, and many more but the point remains the speculation community has more instances of guessing the story that blizz tries to sell as a twist

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Assuming soldiers made up 75% of the male population and 75% of them were within his age and married then you figure of that 57.75% of soldiers half of them have a daughter you've got a highball of 28.83% of soldiers that would have families matching his before the scourge in that entire kingdom.

[tristannarutofan]

I was so certain of this. It was just so blatant. And then they put them all together in a room in Oribos and no one reacted whatsoever and now I'm just dumbfounded because why did they set this up so that a toddler could put it together and then it meant nothing?

Then again I was also certain it would matter that Silithus got absolutely flooded with magical and rejuvenating titan blood considering WHAT IS UNDERNEATH IT but that didn't matter either so I know about as much as Jon Snow.

I meam, there is no proof its true and also the story isnt over so its not to late.

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It's also been a decade and he's been mentally screwed with for a while believing for about 20 years that his wife was a lowborne nobody who died

This is also a good point to counter the scarlet crusade who's using a boy as their supposed heir while we know it was a girl

Now take the following into account
Calia
1. Married a soldier (can't remember if she mentioned his looks)
2. Has a daughter
3. Believes them to be lost in a scourge attack
4. Disguised herself as a commoner during her life before the attack

Bolvar
1. Married a woman he believed to be a commoner
2. Was a soldier at the Time
3. Believes his wife to have been lost in a scourge attack

Now people say "you never know what blizzard is going to pull" but we've seen leaks made that talked about going to the dragon isles and their being a power struggle in the black flight, anduin being rescued by his daddies, most of BfA, the true identity of the runecarver, the thing that broke the arbiter, zovall being the original arbiter, and many more but the point remains the speculation community has more instances of guessing the story that blizz tries to sell as a twist

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Assuming soldiers made up 75% of the male population and 75% of them were within his age and married then you figure of that 57.75% of soldiers half of them have a daughter you've got a highball of 28.83% of soldiers that would have families matching his before the scourge in that entire kingdom.

Is bolvar from lordearon?

[Hitei]

Actually, I'd say not to get too carried away with the semantics there—this seems less relevant if you take Occam's Razor to the fact that there the Aqir of Ny'Alotha are specified as "Aqir", something which we've not seen applied to any of the other Aqiri-derivative races. Add to that how these races are specifically referred to as Silithid and Nerubians during the Zek'voz battle, it is implicitly suggested that these are, in fact, recognized as specific races that are distinct from the Aqir as they originally were.

The Occam's Razor option in this situation is that the things that all look like ducks, walk like ducks, talk like ducks, and are explicitly different colonies of the same duck empire who decided to use new names for their new duck empires are all still just sorts of duck. Just because you can have a museum exhibit that has "Muscovy", "Blue-winged Teal", and "Mallard" labeled doesn't make them not different types of ducks.

Blood Elves, High Elves, and Void Elves are distinct groups that are explicitly labeled as their respective races, even when they both appear "in the same battle" like in Suramar. But the only difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf is that Blood Elves are High Elves who lived in Silvermoon and changed their name after the Scourge came through. The only difference between Blood Elves and Void Elves is that VE are Blood or High Elves who have been infused by void magic. They are all just different types of High Elves.

Does the fact that Alliance-associated, non-void infused ones still get labeled "High Elves" somehow make the other two not still High Elves? Of course not, they're called that because they are the group that hasn't renamed themselves or changed at all since they were a unified group. The same way that the aqir who are just called "Aqir" are the ones who have not renamed themselves or changed at all since they were a unified empire. The fact that none of the High/Blood Elves infused with void magic and following under Umbric and Alleria are called "High Elf" or "Blood elf" again, and are just called "Void Elves" now doesn't change the nature of what they are, anymore than Draenei, Krokul, Man'ari, Lightforged or Lost Ones all being distinct groups who often get called just their associated term cease to just be different sorts of Eredar.

If you have a word, "Aqir" which refers to giant, sentient insectoids spawned from the old gods... I don't know why you'd pretend that different groups of that exact species starting their own kingdoms or, over tens of thousands of years, having slightly different shell shapes or mandibles are now somehow not still a type of that species of giant, sentient insectoid spawned from the old gods.

[Khaza-R]

Is bolvar from lordearon?

I don't think its ever specified where he's from. Although there's also no mention of him ever living anywhere but Stormwind.

Either way, Calia was supposedly living Southshore in disguise with her husband and child from the fall of Lordaeron to when the Forsaken destroyed SS in Cataclysm. So their timelines don't sync up at all without significant retcons.

If I had to guess, Calia's husband and child will likely be a whole different story arc in the future.

[cuafpr]

got an invite today, and started an evoker ... interesting, but for me will never be a main when they hide their armor so much of the time, and the running animation seems....off. I see them being a very mobile class though. Also guess i need to finish SL now finally...

[cocomen2]

Patch content to reintroduce Anduin as a badass instead of an emo

11.0 scene showing us like Anduin rides same horse as Sylvanas, she manly holding him from behind while they kissing each other, they married in MAW.

So Anduin becomes Badass Emo.

[Sweetdeal]

Got added to F&F Last week again, hopefully they sent another wave for F&F. Guess I am late to the show

[Raetary]

Bolvar
1. Married a woman he believed to be a commoner

Yet Calias husband knew who she was.

They kept their relationship secret precisely because she was a princess, up to the point Calias mom found out.
Who then was sympathetic enough to bless them and marry them in secret, with the promise to give him a noble rank after Arthas gets married to not piss off Terenas.

[Nymrohd]

I don't think its ever specified where he's from. Although there's also no mention of him ever living anywhere but Stormwind.

Either way, Calia was supposedly living Southshore in disguise with her husband and child from the fall of Lordaeron to when the Forsaken destroyed SS in Cataclysm. So their timelines don't sync up at all without significant retcons.

If I had to guess, Calia's husband and child will likely be a whole different story arc in the future.

Mara Fordragon was the High Clerist of Stormwind during the First War and fled to Lordaeron, becoming a patron of the refugees of Stormwind and is one of the heroes celebrated by the Scarlet Crusade. While we cannot know for sure, the timeline does match for her to be a relation of Bolvar which would mean he was also from Stormwind or at least was born to Stormwind refugees. Conservation of detail would have her be his mother tbh; a high ranking priest's son would be a natural choice for the Paladin experiment.
She also had a title which makes her nobility. Which would make Bolvar nobility.

[Revamp Man]

Yet Calias husband knew who she was.

They kept their relationship secret precisely because she was a princess, up to the point Calias mom found out.
Who then was sympathetic enough to bless them and marry them in secret, with the promise to give him a noble rank after Arthas gets married to not piss off Terenas.

someone her father would never approve of. One of the footmen, that’s all the description we get, which makes some people wonder if there’s perhaps a connection between Calia, Bolvar and Taelia...but to describe Bolvar as just a footman in that time period...it’s not impossible, but I don’t think it really fits. Either way, Calia fell in love and after begging for a very long time, they were wed by a priestess blessing their union in the Light. When she was certain that she was carrying, she told her mother Lianne everything. She was furious of course, but could also tell that this was a true love and decided to help her daughter. Calia gave birth in the more remote parts of the kingdom. A beautiful little girl she could take care of for a few weeks before it was decided that her husband would raise the child, away from Lordaeron and ignorant of her birthright. When the time was right – when Arthas had finally married and produced an heir – they could acknowledge her daughter and perhaps elevate her husband to a nobleman’s status so that her name would be unsullied.

That day never came. But the scourge surely did.
Learn more:

The events described above do not take place in-game, but you can read more about them in the novels Arthas: Rise of the Lich King and Before the Storm

[Raetary]

The events described above do not take place in-game, but you can read more about them in the novels Arthas: Rise of the Lich King and Before the Storm

I read BtS, i just mixed up the timeline.

And yes, you are right, Menethil mom found out after the wedding and pregnancy, i thought that happened before that.

[Revamp Man]

I read BtS, i just mixed up the timeline.

And yes, you are right, Menethil mom found out after the wedding and pregnancy, i thought that happened before that.

Let's good Talia princess

[TickTickTick]

As for this, that already sort of happened—he tried to deal with it diplomatically. Given he was capable of persuading Xe'ra to let her live, I imagine Yrel would be a relative cakewalk.

Xe'ra probably knew the only way to get to Illidan was through Turalyon, so she spared Alleria to not piss him off. In other circumstances I'm sure she'd just kill her.

[Nymrohd]

If Dragon Isles are placed north of Kalimdor instead of north of EK as WoWhead speculates here (maps from before Vanilla are very much worthless in this regard, they are just concepts that were changed significantly in many other instances), then a new Teldrassil could be planted between Dragon Isles and Kalimdor, close to current Teldrassil. The zone could then be part of both Dragon Isles as a continent with a skybox used to show Kalimdor on the horizon AND then a copy of the zone could be placed on the Kalimdor map and be the Night Elf capital post Dragon Isles (with the Dragon Isles on the skybox).

[Jaggler]

If Dragon Isles are placed north of Kalimdor instead of north of EK as WoWhead speculates here (maps from before Vanilla are very much worthless in this regard, they are just concepts that were changed significantly in many other instances), then a new Teldrassil could be planted between Dragon Isles and Kalimdor, close to current Teldrassil. The zone could then be part of both Dragon Isles as a continent with a skybox used to show Kalimdor on the horizon AND then a copy of the zone could be placed on the Kalimdor map and be the Night Elf capital post Dragon Isles (with the Dragon Isles on the skybox).

That seems unnecessarily complicated. Why would you need two "New Teldrassils"?

[BaumanKing]

The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.

[Jaggler]

The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.

Well, the Alliance could certainly use some storylines that make them interesting that are not the consequence of the Horde.

[Nymrohd]

Xe'ra probably knew the only way to get to Illidan was through Turalyon, so she spared Alleria to not piss him off. In other circumstances I'm sure she'd just kill her.

??? Illidan had nothing to do with Turalyon. Xe'ra could not even know they'd meet. I don't get the spin that X'era is an evil mastermind. Her one act that is evil is against Illidan and that can be fully accounted to an obsession created over millenia due to the fatalistic nature of Light-based divination, something we see Velen also struggled with but overcame.
And it would be a disappointment in storytelling if AU Yrel is depicted as unequivocally evil. The orcs of Draenor under Geyarah have no credibility. They look like a caricature of postmodernist morality; you are somehow supposed to take their side simply and only because they are the OTHER even though every complaint presented indirectly and thus through excessive bias from Yrel's side is perfectly in line with what we can expect from Draenor orcs; they HAVE caused the destruction of the ecosystem before, the Draenei have every right to be suspicious of them after an attempt at genocide yet somehow we are supposed to assume that they are the evil fascists which is a tempting narrative but far too heavy handed.

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That seems unnecessarily complicated. Why would you need two "New Teldrassils"?

So you can both have it in Dragon Isles and use it as an expansion zone AND have it in Kalimdor as a racial capital.

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The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.

What part of Turalyon, a man capable of challenging his commander to save his wife and able to work with a fel user who murdered said commander in front of him, makes people so convinced he is a Nazi is beyond me. Yeah he is white and religious. So?

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Well, the Alliance could certainly use some storylines that make them interesting that are not the consequence of the Horde.

Interesting storylines would probably not be the exact same storylines the Horde already had.

[Wangming]

Judging by how they addressed anything else in game, it would be the most patronizing shit ever. Let's not. Leave that to writers competent at social issues.

Like I said, I wouldn't trust Danuser with it. Granted I wouldn't trust him with writing instructions for a packet of instant ramen, but that's beside the point.

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What part of Turalyon, a man capable of challenging his commander to save his wife and able to work with a fel user who murdered said commander in front of him, makes people so convinced he is a Nazi is beyond me. Yeah he is white and religious. So?

Consuming decades of WoW storytelling nearly exclusively made them numb to complex thought. For them it goes like this.

1. In AU Draenor Yrel is evil somehow.
2. Yrel worships the Light.
3. The Light is evil.
4. Turalyon also worships the Light.
5. Turalyion must be evil.