1. #63801
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantique View Post
    Honestly think that changing his tint to the reddish/orange and giving him black beads for eyes (or pupils of different size to show their rabidness/psychotic streak) would go a long way.

    These guys use human skin and literal faces to make their tents, they need to look unnervingly rabid/savage imo

    The shaman looks badass as hell to me and screams "gnoll with armor" and the major reason to me is that it has no humanoid eyes
    Human beings (real-life) have done said things with literal human faces too and they just look like normal people, my dude. Lol.

  2. #63802
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think the face also looks a bit smaller. Probably is just the colors. Then it's also the eyes. I think the eyes should be much larger with far less white showing.
    The black around the eyes on the Seer model is part of it for me. I think it frames the eyes better—framing has a lot to do with it. The pointed hood also frames the face better, even though the face model seems roughly the same.

  3. #63803
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atriel View Post
    Human beings (real-life) have done said things with literal human faces too and they just look like normal people, my dude. Lol.
    Cool but gnolls are not serial killers that are supposed to fade in the background so what is your argument? This is fantasy, the gnolls are not a race where depravity comes in juxtaposition to a seemingly elevated culture; the violence is at center. A furry with a spike collar is just not enough. Give it war paint, larger pupils and more disturbing accessories; e.g. have bones braided in their fur.

  4. #63804
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Cool but gnolls are not serial killers that are supposed to fade in the background so what is your argument? This is fantasy, the gnolls are not a race where depravity comes in juxtaposition to a seemingly elevated culture; the violence is at center. A furry with a spike collar is just not enough. Give it war paint, larger pupils and more disturbing accessories; e.g. have bones braided in their fur.
    The gnolls look scary as it is given the context of a stylized world. This isn't some horror franchise or anything. This obession with furries(And anti furry obession) is tiresome.
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  5. #63805
    I mean, to be honest, the more I look at it, the more they are very similar to concept art and other illustration of Warcraft Gnolls.

  6. #63806


    I put this together in five minutes or less using GIMP, so the art quality is hideous, but this is my best go at trying to rectify some design choices. Admittedly, this doesn't look much better and I'm very terrible at art, but it's my best go. The things I couldn't do properly are give it stronger, Worgen-like teeth (even if that is, admittedly, inaccurate to how Hyenas look. I could see smaller teeth work if framed in the right way, but this isn't exactly a good place for subtlety), make the eyes look very decent or much beadier or rounder (both of which ought to be done—smaller and rounder eyes look creepier) and accentuate the hunch beyond standard WarCraft hunchback-tier to look more deformed. The awkward paw print emblems really confuse things and make them look like militant furries.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I mean, to be honest, the more I look at it, the more they are very similar to concept art and other illustration of Warcraft Gnolls.
    The appearance is good—it's just the presentation. The shapes are fairly decent save for the face, which simply is shaped in too cartoonish a manner. It looks very Pixar-esque and doesn't properly communicate danger.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Cool but gnolls are not serial killers that are supposed to fade in the background so what is your argument? This is fantasy, the gnolls are not a race where depravity comes in juxtaposition to a seemingly elevated culture; the violence is at center. A furry with a spike collar is just not enough. Give it war paint, larger pupils and more disturbing accessories; e.g. have bones braided in their fur.
    Generally agreed, though I'd say less pupil as opposed to more. I think that war paint and bones aren't enough—it ought to be more visceral, less soft, more pointy and energetic.

  7. #63807
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    The gnolls look scary as it is given the context of a stylized world. This isn't some horror franchise or anything. This obession with furries(And anti furry obession) is tiresome.
    I don't mind furries whatsoever. I don't think that kind of style is right for a fantasy race that is meant to be menacing though.

  8. #63808
    I mean, I think they are plenty menacing.



    especially when you compare them to this.


  9. #63809
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    The things I couldn't do properly are give it stronger, Worgen-like teeth (even if that is, admittedly, inaccurate to how Hyenas look.
    Generally agreed, though I'd say less pupil as opposed to more. I think that war paint and bones aren't enough—it ought to be more visceral, less soft, more pointy and energetic.
    Honestly some Hyena accuracy would make it look less like a worgen with a weird fur pattern. Ears should be rounded and teeth should not be sharp, meant to tear flesh but blunt, meant to break bones. The face is actually more wolf than hyena. The hunch should also be more pronounced.

    And looking at them again I think they are missing a bit of grime and dirt. That white gnolls looks fresh off having a bath. Did someone take it to the yak wash?

    And the "Sage" model just looks better.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-07-17 at 06:33 PM.

  10. #63810
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Honestly some Hyena accuracy would make it look less like a worgen with a weird fur pattern. Ears should be rounded and teeth should not be sharp, meant to tear flesh but blunt, meant to break bones. The face is actually more wolf than hyena.

    And looking at them again I think they are missing a bit of grime and dirt. That white gnolls looks fresh off having a bath. Did someone take it to the yak wash?

    And the "Sage" model just looks better.
    I'd put that mostly to the pupil-less eyes and simple framing. The darker circles around the eyes make them look rounder and less emotive, and the paint on the snout makes it look thinner and more sinister. I could see blunt teeth or rounded ears working, but they'd have to be very well-executed—preserving shape language is important.

    I don't think the model is too clean, really—WarCraft rarely illustrates grime and dirt to begin with. However, I suppose I could see that it's far too plain. I suppose stronger, darker highlights could help.

    For blunted teeth, making them too large and wide would make them look too Disney-esque unless there were much effort put into making them jagged and disproportionate. I maintain the pupil-less eyes are the most important part. A thinner snout could help.

  11. #63811
    Bloodsail Admiral SunspotAnims's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I don't mind furries whatsoever. I don't think that kind of style is right for a fantasy race that is meant to be menacing though.
    The thing about gnolls is that they are historically low-level questing fodder, usually bandits, pirates, and goons to bigger bad guys. I think we can go in circles about whether gnolls should be menacing or are more appropriate as cartoony bad guys but it kinda just boils down to our own interpretation of what a gnoll should be. That's all this discussion ever was; trying to push our preferences using design terminology is a bit naive since a pro character artist can usually use the same terminology to tell us to buzz off.

  12. #63812
    Imagine whining cause some dog people look a lil more cartoonish than what you wanted. Seriously, they're fodder mobs, cool tf down

  13. #63813
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Imagine whining cause some dog people look a lil more cartoonish than what you wanted. Seriously, they're fodder mobs, cool tf down
    Nobody's whining—we simply think it's a bad design choice that simply doesn't represent the race.

  14. #63814
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Imagine whining cause some dog people look a lil more cartoonish than what you wanted. Seriously, they're fodder mobs, cool tf down
    This is probably the most chill and constructive discussion this thread has seen in weeks, and you want it to stop?



  15. #63815
    There is a massive Bronze Dragon building in Thaldrazzus with closed doors, that looks suspiciously like a future raid portal.

    As for the Gnolls: I don't think they fit the overall style of the Dragon Isles, and this feels more like prepping them to be integrated into a future Elwynn and Kalimdor where they WOULD fit the style.

    I think they should add an "inbetween" of the casters and the default that looks a little more like the classic: hunched and angry. The regular version is great as an NPC race that you interact with, but how many Gnolls will you actually quest with?
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2022-07-17 at 06:45 PM.

  16. #63816
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Actually, regarding @Nymrohd's idea about the teeth and my reservations, I think that taking from the old model could be a good idea. They already sort of did that—the yellow, blunted teeth in the front and the jagged, crooked pointy teeth off to the side is a very good way of doing it. The exposed gums, I now realize, also are important.

  17. #63817
    Bloodsail Admiral SunspotAnims's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Nobody's whining—we simply think it's a bad design choice that simply doesn't represent the race.
    I think one thing needs to be clarified here—just because you disagree with it does not mean it's a bad design choice. I hate to be "but that's just like your opinion man" but it really is just a matter of how you personally interpret a gnoll should look. If you disagree with the artist's interpretation of what gnolls should look like, that's fine, that's valid, but that does not mean it's a "bad design".

  18. #63818
    Someone over on the Scrolls of Lore discord did some minor photoshop work.

    Before


    After


    It really is a matter of just giving a larger head.

  19. #63819
    I don't understand where this "Gnolls used to very menacing and frightening" thing coming from?

    The original models have like 10 polygons and 8bit textures. Things like teeth have to be exaggerated or else they wouldn't be visible at all. Case in point: People arguing that they didn't have pupils when they had pupils.

    They certainly don't look "menacing" in this icon from WC3



    Even in concept art they seem more "insane" rather than "menacing".


  20. #63820
    My sister pitched in, too, and she pointed out something I didn't notice—its fur is too fluffy and soft-looking. Part of that is due to a lack of contrast along the lines, and another part is because it's not short enough. If the lines of the fur texture were shorter and darker, it would look better. Hyena fur ought to be more course and shorter, and the dark lines make it look less like a well-groomed show dog. If the texture were darker and had a coarser texture alone, that also could work.

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