Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Revamp Man]

I read BtS, i just mixed up the timeline.

And yes, you are right, Menethil mom found out after the wedding and pregnancy, i thought that happened before that.

Let's good Talia princess

[TickTickTick]

As for this, that already sort of happened—he tried to deal with it diplomatically. Given he was capable of persuading Xe'ra to let her live, I imagine Yrel would be a relative cakewalk.

Xe'ra probably knew the only way to get to Illidan was through Turalyon, so she spared Alleria to not piss him off. In other circumstances I'm sure she'd just kill her.

[Nymrohd]

If Dragon Isles are placed north of Kalimdor instead of north of EK as WoWhead speculates here (maps from before Vanilla are very much worthless in this regard, they are just concepts that were changed significantly in many other instances), then a new Teldrassil could be planted between Dragon Isles and Kalimdor, close to current Teldrassil. The zone could then be part of both Dragon Isles as a continent with a skybox used to show Kalimdor on the horizon AND then a copy of the zone could be placed on the Kalimdor map and be the Night Elf capital post Dragon Isles (with the Dragon Isles on the skybox).

[Jaggler]

If Dragon Isles are placed north of Kalimdor instead of north of EK as WoWhead speculates here (maps from before Vanilla are very much worthless in this regard, they are just concepts that were changed significantly in many other instances), then a new Teldrassil could be planted between Dragon Isles and Kalimdor, close to current Teldrassil. The zone could then be part of both Dragon Isles as a continent with a skybox used to show Kalimdor on the horizon AND then a copy of the zone could be placed on the Kalimdor map and be the Night Elf capital post Dragon Isles (with the Dragon Isles on the skybox).

That seems unnecessarily complicated. Why would you need two "New Teldrassils"?

[BaumanKing]

The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.

[Jaggler]

The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.

Well, the Alliance could certainly use some storylines that make them interesting that are not the consequence of the Horde.

[Nymrohd]

Xe'ra probably knew the only way to get to Illidan was through Turalyon, so she spared Alleria to not piss him off. In other circumstances I'm sure she'd just kill her.

??? Illidan had nothing to do with Turalyon. Xe'ra could not even know they'd meet. I don't get the spin that X'era is an evil mastermind. Her one act that is evil is against Illidan and that can be fully accounted to an obsession created over millenia due to the fatalistic nature of Light-based divination, something we see Velen also struggled with but overcame.
And it would be a disappointment in storytelling if AU Yrel is depicted as unequivocally evil. The orcs of Draenor under Geyarah have no credibility. They look like a caricature of postmodernist morality; you are somehow supposed to take their side simply and only because they are the OTHER even though every complaint presented indirectly and thus through excessive bias from Yrel's side is perfectly in line with what we can expect from Draenor orcs; they HAVE caused the destruction of the ecosystem before, the Draenei have every right to be suspicious of them after an attempt at genocide yet somehow we are supposed to assume that they are the evil fascists which is a tempting narrative but far too heavy handed.

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That seems unnecessarily complicated. Why would you need two "New Teldrassils"?

So you can both have it in Dragon Isles and use it as an expansion zone AND have it in Kalimdor as a racial capital.

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The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.

What part of Turalyon, a man capable of challenging his commander to save his wife and able to work with a fel user who murdered said commander in front of him, makes people so convinced he is a Nazi is beyond me. Yeah he is white and religious. So?

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Well, the Alliance could certainly use some storylines that make them interesting that are not the consequence of the Horde.

Interesting storylines would probably not be the exact same storylines the Horde already had.

[Wangming]

Judging by how they addressed anything else in game, it would be the most patronizing shit ever. Let's not. Leave that to writers competent at social issues.

Like I said, I wouldn't trust Danuser with it. Granted I wouldn't trust him with writing instructions for a packet of instant ramen, but that's beside the point.

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What part of Turalyon, a man capable of challenging his commander to save his wife and able to work with a fel user who murdered said commander in front of him, makes people so convinced he is a Nazi is beyond me. Yeah he is white and religious. So?

Consuming decades of WoW storytelling nearly exclusively made them numb to complex thought. For them it goes like this.

1. In AU Draenor Yrel is evil somehow.
2. Yrel worships the Light.
3. The Light is evil.
4. Turalyon also worships the Light.
5. Turalyion must be evil.

[TickTickTick]

??? Illidan had nothing to do with Turalyon. Xe'ra could not even know they'd meet.

Huh? Have you even played the Legion campaign?

Xe'ra has Turalyon send the Light's Heart to Azeroth. Her core part. It had to be Turalyon to show the Azerothians that the Army of the Light exists and is still fighting. Then we'd travel with the Light's Heart to discover different moments of Illidan's past.

Like... the process was: Turalyon, you need to bring Illidan to me. Take the Light's Heart and send it to Azeroth. It will help guide them to me and make them understand why he's so important and needs to be found. Also, manifest yourself through it for extra trust and motivation for others to find you. Alleria? Uh... Ok, I'll spare her (because otherwise you won't do my bidding).

Do you really think cosmic beings like Naaru have any care about mortal's love? What makes you believe that she would give a damn that the Void's (the Light's greatest enemy) apprentice is her devoted worshipper's wife? It's very obvious she's spared her only to maintain the plan of obtaining Illidan. IF Illidan underwent the transformation and Xe'ra succeeded, you can be sure Alleria would be murdered moments later.

[Nymrohd]

Do you really think cosmic beings like Naaru have any care about mortal's love? What makes you believe that she would give a damn that the Void's (the Light's greatest enemy) apprentice is her devoted worshipper's wife? It's very obvious she's spared her only to maintain the plan of obtaining Illidan. IF Illidan underwent the transformation and Xe'ra succeeded, you can be sure Alleria would be murdered moments later.

I mean it's very obvious to you because that is the pattern you are trying to see.

[Xilurm]

Guys, look who wrote that post. I thought it was a serious post for like 5 seconds then I saw who wrote it.

[Khaza-R]

The fact that a man like Turalyon is popular with both nobles and soldiers is alarming. The Alliance could easily turn into a fascist-esque police state. You can see the seeds of this in how Turalyon and regular guardsmen treat dracthyr refugees. It's like the Garrosh situation all over again.

If they do go this route then I hope they don't try to give Alleria a pass. She's just as extreme, if not even worse, than he is.

Mara Fordragon was the High Clerist of Stormwind during the First War and fled to Lordaeron, becoming a patron of the refugees of Stormwind and is one of the heroes celebrated by the Scarlet Crusade. While we cannot know for sure, the timeline does match for her to be a relation of Bolvar which would mean he was also from Stormwind or at least was born to Stormwind refugees. Conservation of detail would have her be his mother tbh; a high ranking priest's son would be a natural choice for the Paladin experiment.
She also had a title which makes her nobility. Which would make Bolvar nobility.

If the Scarlet story ever does resurge, I would love for it to explore this and the other "heroes" of the Crusade. Between that and this whole false heir to Lordaeron thing it could be a really interesting arc.

[Gigantique]

The Occam's Razor option in this situation is that the things that all look like ducks, walk like ducks, talk like ducks, and are explicitly different colonies of the same duck empire who decided to use new names for their new duck empires are all still just sorts of duck. Just because you can have a museum exhibit that has "Muscovy", "Blue-winged Teal", and "Mallard" labeled doesn't make them not different types of ducks.

Blood Elves, High Elves, and Void Elves are distinct groups that are explicitly labeled as their respective races, even when they both appear "in the same battle" like in Suramar. But the only difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf is that Blood Elves are High Elves who lived in Silvermoon and changed their name after the Scourge came through. The only difference between Blood Elves and Void Elves is that VE are Blood or High Elves who have been infused by void magic. They are all just different types of High Elves.

Does the fact that Alliance-associated, non-void infused ones still get labeled "High Elves" somehow make the other two not still High Elves? Of course not, they're called that because they are the group that hasn't renamed themselves or changed at all since they were a unified group. The same way that the aqir who are just called "Aqir" are the ones who have not renamed themselves or changed at all since they were a unified empire. The fact that none of the High/Blood Elves infused with void magic and following under Umbric and Alleria are called "High Elf" or "Blood elf" again, and are just called "Void Elves" now doesn't change the nature of what they are, anymore than Draenei, Krokul, Man'ari, Lightforged or Lost Ones all being distinct groups who often get called just their associated term cease to just be different sorts of Eredar.

If you have a word, "Aqir" which refers to giant, sentient insectoids spawned from the old gods... I don't know why you'd pretend that different groups of that exact species starting their own kingdoms or, over tens of thousands of years, having slightly different shell shapes or mandibles are now somehow not still a type of that species of giant, sentient insectoid spawned from the old gods.

I also think that the entire family is called "Aqir" for hunter taming regardless of it being an Qiraji wasp, Mantid Kunchong or Nerubian... whatever Hunters can tame from them.

[Revamp Man]

OK so far we have the following changes
New style of talent trees
Revamped zone rep
Revamped flying
Revamped professions
Revamped ui

Does it need to have a new engine and a reset or can this count as WoW 2 because after 4 years of the same gameplay it certainly feels like it

[rhorle]

If Dragon Isles are placed north of Kalimdor instead of north of EK as WoWhead speculates

The devs already confirmed in the Judgehype interview that the Dragon Isles are to the Northeast of known landmasses. A capital doesn't need to exist on the vanilla map. Blizzard can easily find a way to restrict low-levels from entering areas and have it be part of an expansion. Or just not have it be a capital city in the traditional sense.

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Does it need to have a new engine and a reset or can this count as WoW 2 because after 4 years of the same gameplay it certainly feels like it

The WoW engine gets upgraded all the time. This also would be WoW 3 or 4 (or even higher) because this isn't the first time Blizzard has re-invented things to keep stuff fresh.

[Alanar]

Probably assuming about DF's plot but my guess at least Alliance side, maybe some areas that weren't Blue before are going to be Blue now as Turalyon might want more land and well that can always translate to new content in the future if need be. As I said, I think its all heading up to a royal crisis of sorts. Anduin gets over his(dumb doubt nonsense). At the same time the Light arrives(This is all speculation so bear with me) to sorta spread their whole doctrine and what not. Both factions have different reactions.


Alliance will be more welcoming as Turalyon will probably open the gates for the naaru and the Light zealots in and it may get awkward and uncomfortable with how "Forceful" the zealots are. This ends up in Conflict because Anduin will be ready to come back home and be King again, people are happy and such. The Light's zealots will be sorta meeting with Turalyon or wherevfer on Azeroth and well based on Xe'ra and the past, the Light is going to look bad(Because we really needed this development -_-) and well Paladins may feel awkward after all of this.

Anyways when the time comes Turalyon(and that one Holy Dreadlord dude who is probably but could be wrong, misleading Turalyon and even influence him). Anduin attempts to take the throne rightfully(He is Varian's heir, no bits about it). Turalyon doesn't back down and refuses, its lazy and just Blue Horde but I am not gonna act shocked if it happens :/




I assume eventually and I could of sworn one of the creatives did mention the sword during SL but that might of been Creepy Afriasbi so thats out. Probably nothing for awhile.

Yea I mean, I remember this being a topic and being discussed before sl. Xe ra trying to forcefully convert Illidan in 7.3 kinda shocked a lot of people and refused to believe the light can be bad. There were actually alot of naysayers to this, but with us finding all these bits and pieces before sl that Turalyon was going to rule for the time being was only fueling the idea and theories for obvious reasons.

I mean like you said I also wouldnt be shocked and it isnt perse a bad idea. That moment Turalyon will refuse to step down could potentially be a huge cinematic moment with Anduin walking in the throne room. This could also be a moment were we get to see anduin got some upgrades. Maybe shadow priest anduin could show up here, would make for a interesting clash with Turalyon.

It doesnt need to lead to Turalyon dying, but hes devotion to the light is also a weakness and this could be why the light is blinding him and not seeing the truth. This whole arc could be spanded out with the crusaders showing up and hearing the call. There is potential here I think.

[MightyWarrior]

World of Warcraft, The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King was WOW1
Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor was WOW2
Legion, Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands are WOW3
Now we're entering WOW4 with Dragonflight, and probably the next two after that.

[Nyel]

OK so far we have the following changes
New style of talent trees
Revamped zone rep
Revamped flying
Revamped professions
Revamped ui

Does it need to have a new engine and a reset or can this count as WoW 2 because after 4 years of the same gameplay it certainly feels like it

Feels like what? I mean what criteria is that to make it count as WoW 2, Legion brought world quests, mythic plus, revamped professions etc. and wasn't counted as WoW 2 either. I don't see how Dragonflight, which offers less major new stuff, could be seen as that. Dragonflight doesn't change the core gameplay at all, whereas Legion did. And Legion on top of that introduced us to a completely new world / planet with Argus.

[Niwes]

OK so far we have the following changes
New style of talent trees
Revamped zone rep
Revamped flying
Revamped professions
Revamped ui

Does it need to have a new engine and a reset or can this count as WoW 2 because after 4 years of the same gameplay it certainly feels like it

naaah. you should more look at it like „new systems“ without „systems“. at best you can call it a general overhaul to some long existing stuff.

for another new xpac they always need a feature list for that xpac, to sell it. you can’t sell products without an appropriate feature list. you can’t base your sales just on „new content (quest, raids, dungeons)“.

in the last few xpacs they introduced new „systems“, related to player power. in reality this means some story + some cheap UIs (conduits, essences, etc) + some items that support that system. since ppl not want this (player power related systems) they do their new „systems“, they use as a feature list for sale (which is needed), now as other (non player power related) „systems“, like new talent trees or new professions system.

in short, an xpac needs 2 things: content + some new and attracting features. this time the features are not player power related systems but overhauled core systems instead (talents, professions).

that’s all.

[MightyWarrior]

I think its fair to say we're in WOW4 because of the feel of the game during the time periods every 3 expansions