Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

Fairly happy about what I've seen with Paladin. Plenty of utility in the class tree and when it comes to the prot tree I can tell I will need at least 5-6 different builds depending on content. At current numbers, Focused Enmity would mean my tankadin will outdps most of the less skilled dps in my group. But yeah, excited for the talent tree as Prot. Ret I am not so sure; hate that Final Reckoning, my favourite talent in SL, is behind Ashes to Ashes, my least favourite tier set.

That Wrathion, Nozdormu, Kalecgos set in the loading screen makes me want to write decided NSFW fanfiction.

[Makorus]

Damn, the new Arcane Mage cooldown sounds really fun.

Really happy with the Mage Trees (no Prismatic Crystal though )

Anyone got an invite yet from this wave (if there has been one?)?)

[Jaggler]

Damn, the new Arcane Mage cooldown sounds really fun.

Really happy with the Mage Trees (no Prismatic Crystal though )

Anyone got an invite yet from this wave (if there has been one?)?)

The spec-trees are mostly ok if rather unexciting.
The base class tree is just a mess.

[Makorus]

The spec-trees are mostly ok if rather unexciting.
The base class tree is just a mess.

The base class tree is shit, I agree.

[Jaggler]

The base class tree is shit, I agree.

I think one of the issues is, that you have to make choices, but none of those choices are actually fun. it's like going shopping for tools when you don't really care about them. Yes, they are useful but are you excited to actually have them? No.

[tristannarutofan]

I think one of the issues is, that you have to make choices, but none of those choices are actually fun. it's like going shopping for tools when you don't really care about them. Yes, they are useful but are you excited to actually have them? No.

I like the healing and more shields, speed and shields from blinking, and other such things!

[Nymrohd]

Are people seriously asking for more throughput talents in the class tree??? I am happy that mage class tree is mostly utility.

[klaps_05]

Pretty poor choices for mage talents so far, hopefully a lot of it gets changed. worst legendary playstyles, SL conduits which are irrelevant at such low ranks. very little of the actual mage players wishlist on there.

fire shows how little they play the game - giving mages back 1 min combustion, but not the powerups that made 1 min actually good. bfa 1 min bust build was good because you had multiple buffs every time, without them, its a wet noodle.

[Jaggler]

I like the healing and more shields, speed and shields from blinking, and other such things!

Are people seriously asking for more throughput talents in the class tree??? I am happy that mage class tree is mostly utility.

Not talking about throughput. I really like stuff like Mass Polymorph, Ice Floes being back for all specs and i personally always liked Tempest Shield.
The problem lies mostly in pathing and the amount of multiple point nodes that just feel bad. Making some of the 3-point-nodes two pointes could already free some points up for fun talents, imho. I also wonder if they couldn't find a better fire capstone than meteor. Depends on balancing I guess, but compared to greater Invis and Shifting power I'd say that's a bit lackluster.

[Lady Atia]

Interesting that Blizzard would spoil that with the loading screen already though. - for that single reason you can know it's not Ysera

Or we bring her back during the pre-patch, hence her being on the loading screen during launch wouldn't spoil anything. Besides that, the interesting part isn't that she is coming back (we already know that from the epilogue), but how and what sacrifice we have to give.

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There's a massive difference actually. Two of them. You have to pay more to learn more of the story, and it's in an entirely different type of media. Maybe if it was a short story for free on their website, that'd be cool. But no, it's not.

Something like Chronicles is cool, because it's like an encyclopedia that goes deep into the lore of the world in general. But releasing a companion novel for each expansion that players who like the lore feel forced to buy because there's important details isn't nice. Of course people can get a PDF illegally through some means but that's not really nice is it?

Again, nothing wrong with paying extra to get extra fluff for your hobby. No one complains that there are thousands of Warhammer books to enrichen the lore of GW's games either (which cost a loooot more than the small sub fee WoW has) because why would you complain about extra stuff ... oO. I don't get it.

[Makorus]

Or we bring her back during the pre-patch, hence her being on the loading screen during launch wouldn't spoil anything. Besides that, the interesting part isn't that she is coming back (we already know that from the epilogue), but how and what sacrifice we have to give.

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Again, nothing wrong with paying extra to get extra fluff for your hobby. No one complains that there are thousands of Warhammer books to enrichen the lore of GW's games either (which cost a loooot more than the small sub fee WoW has) because why would you complain about extra stuff ... oO. I don't get it.

Buying a book to understand the story of a game is not "extra fluff", it's the basic story.

[Jaggler]

Buying a book to understand the story of a game is not "extra fluff", it's the basic story.

When was the last time you actually had to buy a book to get an important plotpoint? War Crimes?

[Lady Atia]

Buying a book to understand the story of a game is not "extra fluff", it's the basic story.

But they don't do books anymore than are "required to understand the story". The basic story is in the game.

[UndedoKoleda]

Again, nothing wrong with paying extra to get extra fluff for your hobby. No one complains that there are thousands of Warhammer books to enrichen the lore of GW's games either (which cost a loooot more than the small sub fee WoW has) because why would you complain about extra stuff ... oO. I don't get it.

It's alright to have extra stuff, when they are, you know... extra. Like world-building and fleshing out the already known story.

When you already pay the price for a full game, plus a subscription, it's a dick move to hide crucial story elements in other, monetized, sources.

Not everyone(only a portion of the players, actually) is invested in the story to an extent, where they will seek out-of-game sources, in order to be able to get the complete picture. Which leads to the story appearing as even bigger mess than it actually is, the most recent example being Shadowlands.

[Nymrohd]

When was the last time you actually had to buy a book to get an important plotpoint? War Crimes?

I'd say Before the Storm but halfway through BfA it nearly felt retconned. It did feel very important during early BfA though, practically setting up a Stormwind Raid. And then with Sylvanas they were all sewn back together like Frankenstein.

[Lady Atia]

It's alright to have extra stuff, when they are, you know... extra. Like world-building and fleshing out the already known story.

When you already pay the price for a full game, plus a subscription, it's a dick move to hide crucial story elements in other, monetized, sources.

Not everyone(only a portion of the players, actually) is invested in the story to an extent, where they will seek out-of-game sources, in order to be able to get the complete picture. Which leads to the story appearing as even bigger mess than it actually is, the most recent example being Shadowlands.

You didn't need "Shadows Rising" to understand Shadowlands. One could argue that it was actually a waste of money to buy that book because it was that much unimportant to the game. For "Sylvanas" - all it did was fix BfA (which isn't the fault of the current writers lol). Regarding Shadowlands, again there was nothing new in it which we didn't already know from questing in the Shadowlands. And one would argue that it makes sense that our characters don't know the PoV of Sylvanas.

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I'd say Before the Storm but halfway through BfA it nearly felt retconned. It did feel very important during early BfA though, practically setting up a Stormwind Raid. And then with Sylvanas they were all sewn back together like Frankenstein.

The only important points of BtS were the Desolate Council (which was world building and felt super out of place and full of newly created no-names when the book came out, honestly that thing only makes sense now that we have real forsaken characters on the new one) aswell as Calia. That said, BfA as a whole was a mess but that was pretty much Afrasiabi's fault anyways. And Calia was a late addition to the book because Christie felt "it felt right to use Calia for that plot point". Hence we never saw her in BfA 'till we got to the epilogue. Or in other words, the Calia bit wasn't "hey we have this thing we should tell ingame but no tell it in the book to get more sales", but rather "this feels right for my story, can I use her?". Which is different from the Cataclysm or WoD novel.

[Jaggler]

I'd say Before the Storm but halfway through BfA it nearly felt retconned. It did feel very important during early BfA though, practically setting up a Stormwind Raid. And then with Sylvanas they were all sewn back together like Frankenstein.

Yeah, i was thinking about Before the Storm, but the only thing of relevance that happens, that wasn't portrayed in the game was the death and resurrection of Calia. In the whole scheme of things the Gathering and the first Desolate Council were really minor

[Makorus]

But they don't do books anymore than are "required to understand the story". The basic story is in the game.

Arguably, Sylvanas was required for the Shadowlands story to make sense.

Shadows Rising, I agree.

[UndedoKoleda]

You didn't need "Shadows Rising" to understand Shadowlands. One could argue that it was actually a waste of money to buy that book because it was that much unimportant to the game. For "Sylvanas" - all it did was fix BfA (which isn't the fault of the current writers lol). Regarding Shadowlands, again there was nothing new in it which we didn't already know from questing in the Shadowlands. And one would argue that it makes sense that our characters don't know the PoV of Sylvanas.

Yes, you did need it. You knew nothing about what was her motivation to do all the stuff that she did the last couple of expansions, that directly led to Shadowlands. In a hindsight, you might think that it all made sense, but that's hindsight for you...

And our characters not knowing the PoV of Sylvanas is really not an excuse... By that logic they can just go all-out "vanilla style" on the story and explain it with "but our characters have very limited understanding of what is going on, they just need to do this and this".

[Nymrohd]

Not talking about throughput. I really like stuff like Mass Polymorph, Ice Floes being back for all specs and i personally always liked Tempest Shield.
The problem lies mostly in pathing and the amount of multiple point nodes that just feel bad. Making some of the 3-point-nodes two pointes could already free some points up for fun talents, imho. I also wonder if they couldn't find a better fire capstone than meteor. Depends on balancing I guess, but compared to greater Invis and Shifting power I'd say that's a bit lackluster.

I think what needs to be removed from the Class Tree is Tome of Antonidas/Rhonin. They very much lock how you can advance if you don't want to lose major throughput. Alternatively they'd have to be placed at a different point that follows a branching point from the middle. Cryo-Freeze and Tempest Barrier should also probably be 2 rank talents. Also the class tree needs a bit more fire and a bit less frost. And really disappointed at no FrostFire.