Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

Third time? Legion, DF and...?

We just had Zovaal collect all the Sigils. And then after he collected all the Sigils, we made new ones in a matter of days and collected them ourselves because why not?

I know, I am trying to forget Shadowland's plot as well.

[Raetary]

Third time? Legion, DF and...?

Shadowlands, where we ran around getting the covenant sigils.

[Venziir]

We just had Zovaal collect all the Sigils. And then after he collected all the Sigils, we made new ones in a matter of days and collected them ourselves because why not?

I know, I am trying to forget Shadowland's plot as well.

Ah fair, I suppose that's somewhat the same. And yeah, let's just treat SL as a fever dream. Thankfully it seems as if Blizzard kinda wants to do the same by largely ignoring it in DF.

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Shadowlands, where we ran around getting the covenant sigils.

Right right, gotta admit I completely forgot about that since it was so utterly pointless.

[UndedoKoleda]

....If they intend to restore their former powers they need to explain it somehow. So thats not cheap.

It does feel a bit cheap. The aspects knew/had a very good guess to how to restore their powers, after sacrificing them to defeat Deathwing, but they didn't act on it till now, for some reason? Azeroth and the universe itself were in grave danger numerous times, but they just sat it out, and now, when there is no immanent danger to the world(not on the scale of the previous ones, anyway), they decide to go for it.

Hope they give a good explanation to why it took them so long to try to reclaim their powers.

[Nymrohd]

It does feel a bit cheap. The aspects knew/had a very good guess to how to restore their powers, after sacrificing them to defeat Deathwing, but they didn't act on it till now, for some reason? Azeroth and the universe itself were in grave danger numerous times, but they just sat it out, and now, when there is no immanent danger to the world(not on the scale of the previous ones, anyway), they decide to go for it.

Hope they give a good explanation to why it took them so long to try to reclaim their powers.

Well if it was in the Dragon Isles, they could not access them till now so that's solved.

[UndedoKoleda]

Well if it was in the Dragon Isles, they could not access them till now so that's solved.

Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?

[Nebron]

Yeah still not buying it, just seems like more whinging. Somehow the concept of collecting 5- or 7 or whatever things to lead to something big event happening or what not isn't a bad idea. Weather its stones,gems, pillars or whatever.

Okay, so you've edited the comment to provide some reasoning. Now, somehow the concept of collecting the artifacts that lead to a big event is a bad idea to me - and yeah, whether it's stones, gems, pillars or whatever else.
It's the symptom of poor, formulaic writing, lack of creativity and taking the path of least resistence. Now - as I already mentioned - it can work and usually does. But it doesn't change the idea, that themes like this one might feel uninspiring and unambitious. It's like superhero movies - they're okay, they are usually fun, but it doesn't change the fact, that they are not even remotely close to ambitious cinematography.
Nevertheless, we could go like this all day long and it's pretty much counterproductive I think. It's just my opinion, I do not set it down as a fact. You come here, flip the board upside down, and calli it "whinging".

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Hey it wasn't a fanfic it was a two year long Forgotten Realms campaign

Damn, didn't mean to offend; hope it was fun

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Meh. It's pretty much impossible to come up with genuinely original basic plotlines. You might as well complain about "hero fights evil, wins".

Yes, you are right. It's hard to go without influence or inspiration. There's only so much you can come up with. But you go for a little stretch here. There's a difference between theme of good vs. evil and recurring theme of overowered artifact in every single expnasion.

[Nymrohd]

Damn, didn't mean to offend; hope it was fun

I also used items that were legendary in the campaign (something analogous to the Holy Grail) which also makes the trope stand better. It's bad constantly coming up with the same idea of collect all the McGuffins. It's even worse when every time you just find out that these super important things exist right as the story starts. It works better if the items are established previously. They could have seeded the concept of the Pillars in lore ahead of time. It's why some artifacts immediately felt like better concepts than others; they had strong foundations in existing lore.

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Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?

The Dragons themselves seem to have sealed it until the time came for them to go back. They could not get back in until Stoneboi lit up the beacon.

[Lady Atia]

It does feel a bit cheap. The aspects knew/had a very good guess to how to restore their powers, after sacrificing them to defeat Deathwing, but they didn't act on it till now, for some reason? Azeroth and the universe itself were in grave danger numerous times, but they just sat it out, and now, when there is no immanent danger to the world(not on the scale of the previous ones, anyway), they decide to go for it.

Hope they give a good explanation to why it took them so long to try to reclaim their powers.

They did help us ins BfA against N'Zoth though.

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I also used items that were legendary in the campaign (something analogous to the Holy Grail) which also makes the trope stand better. It's bad constantly coming up with the same idea of collect all the McGuffins. It's even worse when every time you just find out that these super important things exist right as the story starts. It works better if the items are established previously. They could have seeded the concept of the Pillars in lore ahead of time. It's why some artifacts immediately felt like better concepts than others; they had strong foundations in existing lore.

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The Dragons themselves seem to have sealed it until the time came for them to go back. They could not get back in until Stoneboi lit up the beacon.

Yeah they clearly need to do more foreshadowing again. Stuff like the Jailer or now the sudden Oathstones feel like "Harry Potter" level of writing (where every book something new was introduced at the start that was the mcguffin to conclude the story at the end of each book without prior seeding so you didn't really had to know the prior books or in WoW's case the expansion I guess).

[Gorsameth]

Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?

The announcement cinematic starts with 'let the land slumber, hidden even from our own eyes'.

[Nymrohd]

They did help us ins BfA against N'Zoth though.

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Yeah they clearly need to do more foreshadowing again. Stuff like the Jailer or now the sudden Oathstones feel like "Harry Potter" level of writing (where every book something new was introduced at the start that was the mcguffin to conclude the story at the end of each book without prior seeding so you didn't really had to know the prior books or in WoW's case the expansion I guess).

They clearly plan ahead (they have to, development time for expansions requires it) but when it comes to the story they always seem to plan in very broad strokes. So they can do foreshadowing but it is limited to broad terms (and even then they always make it ambiguous since they don't want to risk things not going through).

[Nebron]

I also used items that were legendary in the campaign (something analogous to the Holy Grail) which also makes the trope stand better. It's bad constantly coming up with the same idea of collect all the McGuffins. It's even worse when every time you just find out that these super important things exist right as the story starts. It works better if the items are established previously. They could have seeded the concept of the Pillars in lore ahead of time. It's why some artifacts immediately felt like better concepts than others; they had strong foundations in existing lore.

Yeah, foreshadowing is a great mechanism to develop a mystery and drop some breadcrumbs for the future. Without it you lack that beautiful feeling of "OOOOOH, so that's what it was about, nice".

[UndedoKoleda]

The announcement cinematic starts with 'let the land slumber, hidden even from our own eyes'.

Yeah, so I guess they were shrouded by that titanic device, somehow similar to how Pandaria was.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah, so I guess they were shrouded by that titanic device, somehow similar to how Pandaria was.

More like Uldum I guess.

[Venziir]

Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?

It's literally all explained IN the cinematic.

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Yeah, so I guess they were shrouded by that titanic device, somehow similar to how Pandaria was.

Pandaria was shrouded by magic mist though, not a titanic device.

[Sondrelk]

It's literally all explained IN the cinematic.

It's not just explained. It's literally the first thing they say in the cinematic, while they are turning off the beacon. I don't really understand how it could be possible to misunderstand Alexstrasza literally explaining how the Dragon Isles will be hidden from everyone when they turn the beacon off.

[AngerFork]

It's not just explained. It's literally the first thing they say in the cinematic, while they are turning off the beacon. I don't really understand how it could be possible to misunderstand Alexstrasza literally explaining how the Dragon Isles will be hidden from everyone when they turn the beacon off.

I dunno, the question does kind of make sense to me. The cinematic does explain that the Dragon Isles will be hidden & that unless Stoneboi lights up the beacon, they will forever be hidden...but it doesn't explain why they need to be hidden from even the dragons themselves when they have to leave & help us during the Sundering. Are the Isles in danger without the flights there to protect them? Are they worried enough about the problems on the Isles that they want to isolate them from the rest of the world to limit potential threats? Or are they trying to keep the source of their power hidden as a fallback in case the worst happens?

[huth]

Yes, you are right. It's hard to go without influence or inspiration. There's only so much you can come up with. But you go for a little stretch here. There's a difference between theme of good vs. evil and recurring theme of overowered artifact in every single expnasion.

I think you underestimate just how common this plot is in games.

[Makabreska]

Yes, you are right. It's hard to go without influence or inspiration. There's only so much you can come up with. But you go for a little stretch here. There's a difference between theme of good vs. evil and recurring theme of overowered artifact in every single expnasion.

Blizz stated that first tier villains aren't some generic bad guys, but instead people who took a different, not inherently evil approach.

[UndedoKoleda]

It's not just explained. It's literally the first thing they say in the cinematic, while they are turning off the beacon. I don't really understand how it could be possible to misunderstand Alexstrasza literally explaining how the Dragon Isles will be hidden from everyone when they turn the beacon off.

It has been a few months since the cinematic was released, so I guess it didn't make that much of an impression on me, in order to remember it.

My confusion was also fed by the fact, that the said cinematic makes it appear, as if Alextrazsa was already there, when the beacon was lit, since it takes her literally few seconds to grab the watcher, before he hits the ground...