Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Arafal]

Wasn't he kind of though by the end of his life? Something about realigning leylines, as I recall.

Rerouting ley lines to the Nexus so he can yeet all magic into space.
Basically a planet sized flare gun alerting anyone and anything that could potentially come and harm Azeroth.

His plan would've left Azeroth completely defenseless and who knows what that would've done to all the life on Azeroth, especially all the species and areas that are directly dependant on it.
Yogg was almost free at the time and we already knew the Legion was gonna return at some point, so either of those forces would've just taken over the planet.

[Cheezits]

Stupid Cata writing shouldn't have a deep storyline to revoke it. It was always stupid for the Dragons to lose their power/turn sterile (lol) to defeat Deathwing, so I'm amazed there's any attempt at all to bother telling a story about them getting it back.

At least it seems to be resolved in a patch, unlike Shadowlands where the covenant stories took two patches.

[Nebron]

Eh this is just seeing a pattern and calling it logical just because it is a pattern. We HAVE seen what it takes to empower an Aspect, at no point did the Blue flight need the Azure Oathstone to do it. It doesn't even seem like the Oathstones, like the Pillars or the Sigils, are the center of the story, they just happen to be around.

Couldn't agree more. The general idea of an artifact that holds immense power, needs to be collected before the bad guys take it, that later serves as some sort of a key to defeat the final villian feels to some degree lame and definitely uninspired.

This is literally the very first thing that comes to mind, hence I'm not surprised that your fan-fics from your teenage years resolved around that theme.

You have a goal to achieve - collect it.
You have a challange - bad guys want it to, to do their bad things.
It holds as much power as the scenario requires to fit into the plot neatly.
Artifact is a key factor to defeat the big bad.

It doesn't mean it can't be fun, but imo, you are absolutely right about unattractiveness of such take on storytelling. We had Dragon Soul, Pillars, even Artifact Weapons to some degree, Heart of Azeroth, Sigils, now it's Oathstones... yeah.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Couldn't agree more. The general idea of an artifact that holds immense power, needs to be collected before the bad guys take it, that later serves as some sort of a key to defeat the final villian feels to some degree lame and definitely uninspired.

This is literally the very first thing that comes to mind, hence I'm not surprised that your fan-fics from your teenage years resolved around that theme.

You have a goal to achieve - collect it.
You have a challange - bad guys want it to, to do their bad things.
It holds as much power as the scenario requires to fit into the plot neatly.
Artifact is a key factor to defeat the big bad.

It doesn't mean it can't be fun, but imo, you are absolutely right about unattractiveness of such take on storytelling. We had Dragon Soul, Pillars, even Artifact Weapons to some degree, Heart of Azeroth, Sigils, now it's Oathstones... yeah.

Yeah still not buying it, just seems like more whinging. Somehow the concept of collecting 5- or 7 or whatever things to lead to something big event happening or what not isn't a bad idea. Weather its stones,gems, pillars or whatever.

[Polybius]

I just love reposting this video.

Perfection. I can never forget.

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Stupid Cata writing shouldn't have a deep storyline to revoke it. It was always stupid for the Dragons to lose their power/turn sterile (lol) to defeat Deathwing, so I'm amazed there's any attempt at all to bother telling a story about them getting it back.

At least it seems to be resolved in a patch, unlike Shadowlands where the covenant stories took two patches.

Likely because world-ending threats are gone for now, so the aspects don’t necessarily need their powers. It’s more about retaking the Dragon Isles and finishing those threads they left with Chromatus and Nozdormu.

I hope they continue this post-DF to wrap up and refresh WoW’s old worldbuilding.

[Nebron]

Yeah still not buying it, just seems like more whinging.

Oh, yeah, I kinda forgot that every negative opinion is by default a whinging. Cool then, whatever I guess?

[huth]

Couldn't agree more. The general idea of an artifact that holds immense power, needs to be collected before the bad guys take it, that later serves as some sort of a key to defeat the final villian feels to some degree lame and definitely uninspired.

Meh. It's pretty much impossible to come up with genuinely original basic plotlines. You might as well complain about "hero fights evil, wins".

[Skildar]

I think a simple issue that people will have with Dragonflight is that this is the Aspects story. And if we get too involved in it, it just means that they probably too weak to deserve this power.

It will be quite complicated to justify us having to be there for them when we don't really need these behemoths to gain more power especially when one is doomed to fall into madness and another has always felt superior to humanoid civilisations and toyed with them during mop right after cleansing his own race. Besides the power we are about to restore to them will let them curb the reality as they wish.

I have yet to peak at the scenari that have been already tested and would rather wait for them to hit live servers. But if we do indeed go into this kind of direction, there might be a good part of the story that would have been a better be told in a book rather than in game.

I'm very excited about this expansion but reading here that there will be pillars of creation type of artefacts to fetch in each zones doesn't resonate well with me there, that's not the high fantasy writing I'm pursuing.

[Nymrohd]

I think a simple issue that people will have with Dragonflight is that this is the Aspects story. And if we get too involved in it, it just means that they probably too weak to deserve this power.

It will be quite complicated to justify us having to be there for them when we don't really need these behemoths to gain more power especially when one is doomed to fall into madness and another has always felt superior to humanoid civilisations and toyed with them during mop right after cleansing his own race. Besides the power we are about to restore to them will let them curb the reality as they wish.

I have yet to peak at the scenari that have been already tested and would rather wait for them to hit live servers. But if we do indeed go into this kind of direction, there might be a good part of the story that would have been a better be told in a book rather than in game.

I'm very excited about this expansion but reading here that there will be pillars of creation type of artefacts to fetch in rach zones don't resonate well with me there, that's not the hogh fantasy writing I'm pursuing.

See, I am not sure we are about to restore their power, at least not in the form it used to have. Most of the power of the flights was concentrated on the Aspects. I think Blizzard might move away from that with the Aspects being first among equals; the strongest of their flights but not by far. I.e. the power will be disseminated across the flight.
So I think they will get back their fertility and individuals will all be a bit more powerful than before.

Remember during Cata the Aspects were at FULL strength (since Rhonin destroyed the original Dragon Soul in Day of the Dragon, necessitating the inane time travel plot). They were still not a match for either Chromatus or Deathwing. Getting them to full power does not solve anything if they have to face Chromatus again down the line (Galakrond is by far the weaker threat since he was defeated by five reasonably intelligent proto drakes and Tyr). The solution is not Aspects. It's Dragonflights. Then if a couple go insane we can kill/capture them vs an Aspect going insane and being stronger than their entire flight combined.

[Skildar]

See, I am not sure we are about to restore their power, at least not in the form it used to have. Most of the power of the flights was concentrated on the Aspects. I think Blizzard might move away from that with the Aspects being first among equals; the strongest of their flights but not by far. I.e. the power will be disseminated across the flight.
So I think they will get back their fertility and individuals will all be a bit more powerful than before.

Remember during Cata the Aspects were at FULL strength (since Rhonin destroyed the original Dragon Soul in Day of the Dragon, necessitating the inane time travel plot). They were still not a match for either Chromatus or Deathwing. Getting them to full power does not solve anything if they have to face Chromatus again down the line (Galakrond is by far the weaker threat since he was defeated by five reasonably intelligent proto drakes and Tyr). The solution is not Aspects. It's Dragonflights. Then if a couple go insane we can kill/capture them vs an Aspect going insane and being stronger than their entire flight combined.

You're 100% right, there is no need to empower a single dragon for each flight if there a way to empower the flight as a whole.

[Bsirk]

Anyone else find it funny that the "Age of Mortals" lasted all of 5 years before it goes right back to the age of dragons? lol

[Venziir]

Can I say this thing with the Oathstones feels lazy to me? Every zone is about a flight charging up their oathstone, it's cheap fantasy story.

Doesn't sound that different from finding the four Pillars of Creation in the four Legion zones.

[Arafal]

Doesn't sound that different from finding the four Pillars of Creation in the four Legion zones.

Yes, that's precisely why its lazy and uninmaginative.
It's a rehashed plotline, for the third time.

[Nymrohd]

Anyone else find it funny that the "Age of Mortals" lasted all of 5 years before it goes right back to the age of dragons? lol

Not if the new form the dragons' power takes IS mortal. Maybe we can empower them back, restore their fertility but they no longer live for millenia.

Really I find it crazy how half the playable races in WoW easily can manage a couple of millenia if not more; dragons living long is a given. Elves live long as well but most elves in fantasy are long-lived, not immortal like the Night Elves or living for millenia like the high elves (we have canonical blood elves who were alive during the exile . . .). Then we have the Draenei, do we even know any draenei that died of old age? Unclear on how long Zandalari, dwarves or gnomes live. I think it's the problem with wanting to tell a story that spans millenia but also wanting to keep a large part of your roster stable.

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Yes, that's precisely why its lazy and uninmaginative.
It's a rehashed plotline, for the third time.

But apparently pointing that out is "whinging"

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Meh. It's pretty much impossible to come up with genuinely original basic plotlines. You might as well complain about "hero fights evil, wins".

There is nothing wrong with visiting classic plotlines and tropes. Just don't do it multiple times in a row, that's all I am saying.

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This is literally the very first thing that comes to mind, hence I'm not surprised that your fan-fics from your teenage years resolved around that theme.

Hey it wasn't a fanfic it was a two year long Forgotten Realms campaign

[Venziir]

Yes, that's precisely why its lazy and uninmaginative.
It's a rehashed plotline, for the third time.

Third time? Legion, DF and...?

[Nymrohd]

Third time? Legion, DF and...?

We just had Zovaal collect all the Sigils. And then after he collected all the Sigils, we made new ones in a matter of days and collected them ourselves because why not?

I know, I am trying to forget Shadowland's plot as well.

[Arafal]

Third time? Legion, DF and...?

Shadowlands, where we ran around getting the covenant sigils.

[Venziir]

We just had Zovaal collect all the Sigils. And then after he collected all the Sigils, we made new ones in a matter of days and collected them ourselves because why not?

I know, I am trying to forget Shadowland's plot as well.

Ah fair, I suppose that's somewhat the same. And yeah, let's just treat SL as a fever dream. Thankfully it seems as if Blizzard kinda wants to do the same by largely ignoring it in DF.

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Shadowlands, where we ran around getting the covenant sigils.

Right right, gotta admit I completely forgot about that since it was so utterly pointless.

[UndedoKoleda]

....If they intend to restore their former powers they need to explain it somehow. So thats not cheap.

It does feel a bit cheap. The aspects knew/had a very good guess to how to restore their powers, after sacrificing them to defeat Deathwing, but they didn't act on it till now, for some reason? Azeroth and the universe itself were in grave danger numerous times, but they just sat it out, and now, when there is no immanent danger to the world(not on the scale of the previous ones, anyway), they decide to go for it.

Hope they give a good explanation to why it took them so long to try to reclaim their powers.

[Nymrohd]

It does feel a bit cheap. The aspects knew/had a very good guess to how to restore their powers, after sacrificing them to defeat Deathwing, but they didn't act on it till now, for some reason? Azeroth and the universe itself were in grave danger numerous times, but they just sat it out, and now, when there is no immanent danger to the world(not on the scale of the previous ones, anyway), they decide to go for it.

Hope they give a good explanation to why it took them so long to try to reclaim their powers.

Well if it was in the Dragon Isles, they could not access them till now so that's solved.