Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[enigma77]

Lol

Please tell me that's photoshopped.

[Sondrelk]

I can't see anybody liking that one. Right wing will start RRREEEEEEEING about woke politics in their vidya gaems and left wing will be upset because they're making fun of serious issue.

It's probably photoshoppe,d or if not will likely be removed before launch, but damn if that isnt a great example of black humor.

[TickTickTick]

BLM aside...

"Our flight has been under much scrunity and oppression under the mortal races of Azeroth."

If anyone deserves it, it's the Black dragonflight lmao.

[Zulggun]

Well I found it on 4chan so I would not believe it too much ;p Still, quite funny.

[Nymrohd]

I hope it's photoshop? If not, whoever thought that was a good joke or even worse, good representation, should really not be let near writing again.

[Super Dickmann]

Be careful, I'm reading more and more comments stating that BfA was a good expansion. We're getting dangerously close to the point where we're starting to forget how terrifying it was.

BFA apologism is at a rise, because it's been years since we've had its atrocious gameplay and the SL story is more fresh in people's minds. As a card-carrying WoD story supporter myself, I can't judge them too much on principle, only in practice because BFA was complete dross, buoyed only by how much of an entertaining trainwreck it was to discuss it outside the game.

@Zulggun

No way is this real or would pass current Blizzard's office politics, but it still got a right laugh out of me. Cheers!

[Reive]

It's from 4chan lol

[Super Dickmann]

It's from 4chan lol

Here I was looking forward to Wrathion organizing Dracthyr race riots to give himsef an edge over Sabellian in the Black Aspect selection.

[Zulggun]

@Zulggun

No way is this real or would pass current Blizzard's office politics, but it still got a right laugh out of me. Cheers!

It's definitely real, after saying this Wrathion winks at the player and there is blm phone line at the bottom of the screen.

[Super Dickmann]

It's definitely real, after saying this Wrathion winks at the player and there is blm phone line at the bottom of the screen.

Blizzard wouldn't spend money on a winking animation. 0/10 my immersion is ruined.

[Gasparde]

BFA apologism is at a rise, because it's been years since we've had its atrocious gameplay

BFA was fine... eventually... after being shit for 2 years.
Once they gave up on the horseshit that was Azerite armor and just made it pretty much whatever, once they gave up on the horseshit that was Essences and made that pretty much whatever, once they got rid of the horseshit that was Benthic gear and once they eased up on the horseshit that was entirely random Corruptions... the last season was actually pretty neat.

Let's not act as if that were any different in Legion. The expansion was horrible in the beginning, with just about every early feedback community warning about things being shit becoming evident within the first couple months. It was only later on when Artifact and Legendary restrictions were loosened that the expansion became truly enjoyable.

Shockingly, the same applies to SL. Shit expansion at the start, once they let go of every single one of their stupid ideas, suddenly the game became somewhat enjoyable. And 4 years from now people will look back at SL and remember it for being decent enough during S4 - as with every other expansion of the last decade.

Now, DF has the advantage of not having any new power system that they could intentionally fuck up for 1 year. But then again... DF doesn't have anything at all. Those dungeons and raids better be absolute bangers or this expansion will receive just about the same luke warm reception, eventually turning into hate, inevitably turning into something semi-decent in 2 years.

[Sondrelk]

BFA apologism is at a rise, because it's been years since we've had its atrocious gameplay and the SL story is more fresh in people's minds. As a card-carrying WoD story supporter myself, I can't judge them too much on principle, only in practice because BFA was complete dross, buoyed only by how much of an entertaining trainwreck it was to discuss it outside the game.

@Zulggun

No way is this real or would pass current Blizzard's office politics, but it still got a right laugh out of me. Cheers!

The primary reason players hate something or other is because its boring, this is why WoD was by far the worst expansion, simply because it had nothing. Legion had the AP grind, and BfA had the endless systems that were also boring after one or two attempts. This is also true for SL, where the primary issue was the droughts, which are boring.

The issue with this metric is that noone ever remembers being bored. And when the primary reason you hated X expansion is gone you naturally start thinking more positively of it, especially when you are currently bored with what you have.

[Nymrohd]

BFA was fine... eventually... after being shit for 2 years.
Once they gave up on the horseshit that was Azerite armor and just made it pretty much whatever, once they gave up on the horseshit that was Essences and made that pretty much whatever, once they got rid of the horseshit that was Benthic gear and once they eased up on the horseshit that was entirely random Corruptions... the last season was actually pretty neat.

Let's not act as if that were any different in Legion. The expansion was horrible in the beginning, with just about every early feedback community warning about things being shit becoming evident within the first couple months. It was only later on when Artifact and Legendary restrictions were loosened that the expansion became truly enjoyable.

Shockingly, the same applies to SL. Shit expansion at the start, once they let go of every single one of their stupid ideas, suddenly the game became somewhat enjoyable. And 4 years from now people will look back at SL and remember it for being decent enough during S4 - as with every other expansion of the last decade.

Now, DF has the advantage of not having any new power system that they could intentionally fuck up for 1 year. But then again... DF doesn't have anything at all. Those dungeons and raids better be absolute bangers or this expansion will receive just about the same luke warm reception, eventually turning into hate, inevitably turning into something semi-decent in 2 years.

The thing with Legion is that a) unless you were really unlucky with legendaries you probably no longer had any issues with the systems by 7.2 and b) even though the legendary system and a few specs were very poorly designed at launch, there was so much content and so many amazing collectibles to get that the game kept you very busy.

As for Essences/Benthic/Corruptions I think those were really only a serious problem for people who wanted to play multiple alts at the highest level (so likely mostly FOTM rerollers) and for people who optimize at the highest level. These are a minority of the playerbase. For most people, 8.2 was a patch with a lot of good content to do and a decent progression mechanism that supported it.

- - - Updated - - -

The primary reason players hate something or other is because its boring, this is why WoD was by far the worst expansion, simply because it had nothing. Legion had the AP grind, and BfA had the endless systems that were also boring after one or two attempts. This is also true for SL, where the primary issue was the droughts, which are boring.

The issue with this metric is that noone ever remembers being bored. And when the primary reason you hated X expansion is gone you naturally start thinking more positively of it, especially when you are currently bored with what you have.

Personally I never quit during BfA. I always had things to do. I quit for months in WoD and I actually quit for even longer in SL. I even have collections I kind of want in SL but I just cannot be bothered.

[Varodoc]

"Oh nyooo the mortal races are keeping us under scrutiny we're sad ((/" -> What Wrathion said in a nutshell

The sheer entitlement of Wrathion, someone ought to tell him what this bitch did to Stormwind, that will shut him up with his victimism:



Now that his boyfriend Anduin is no longer on the throne, he has to come to terms with the consequences of what his kind did. The people of Stormwind, however, fully support Turalyon and his military forces are fully on board with the idea of keeping dragons under strict supervision.

By the way, the Void elves also wielded mysterious and dangerous powers and could assume mortal visages (their previous High elf form) to mingle with the lowly masses. But because they don't act like victims all the time and actually worked hard in the Fourth War to prove their worth to the Alliance, they have been fully accepted despite their differences. The same will happen to the Dracthyr, but, shockingly, one needs to prove themself and work hard first.

[Skildar]

BFA apologism is at a rise, because it's been years since we've had its atrocious gameplay and the SL story is more fresh in people's minds. As a card-carrying WoD story supporter myself, I can't judge them too much on principle, only in practice because BFA was complete dross, buoyed only by how much of an entertaining trainwreck it was to discuss it outside the game.

I don't understand people who got upset with WoD early on, the story was quite nice and even the gameplay and content were good before 6.1
Afterwards it becomes a pile of missed opportunities for a land that is beautiful with a glorious soundtrack.

Each expac has its strength but BfA will remain to me this project in which blizz dumped way too much money for stories that deserved more narration and subtlety instead.

[Nask]

lol

Did you just take that screenshot seriously? Your elf mumblings have rotted your brain.

[Nymrohd]

I don't understand people who got upset with WoD early on, the story was quite nice and even the gameplay and content were good before 6.1
Afterwards it becomes a pile of missed opportunities for a land that is beautiful with a glorious soundtrack.

Each expac has its strength but BfA will remain to me this project in which blizz dumped way too much money for stories that deserved more narration and subtlety instead.

Until I finished with all my garrison achievements (Except the pvp ones) WoD had me extremely happy. Beautiful area, so much to do. And then I run out and found out all that was left was raid or die. I cleared Blackhand on Heroic and left for ESO.

[SunspotAnims]

I don't understand people who got upset with WoD early on, the story was quite nice and even the gameplay and content were good before 6.1
Afterwards it becomes a pile of missed opportunities for a land that is beautiful with a glorious soundtrack.

Each expac has its strength but BfA will remain to me this project in which blizz dumped way too much money for stories that deserved more narration and subtlety instead.

WoD had great leveling and a beautiful continent but it was all so hollow. If you didn't raid, the only endgame PvE offerings was your one Apexis daily and grinding for whatever garrison buildings you had, which was almost never fun and the rewards almost always underwhelming.

[Super Dickmann]

BFA was fine... eventually... after being shit for 2 years.
Once they gave up on the horseshit that was Azerite armor and just made it pretty much whatever, once they gave up on the horseshit that was Essences and made that pretty much whatever, once they got rid of the horseshit that was Benthic gear and once they eased up on the horseshit that was entirely random Corruptions... the last season was actually pretty neat.

Let's not act as if that were any different in Legion. The expansion was horrible in the beginning, with just about every early feedback community warning about things being shit becoming evident within the first couple months. It was only later on when Artifact and Legendary restrictions were loosened that the expansion became truly enjoyable.

Shockingly, the same applies to SL. Shit expansion at the start, once they let go of every single one of their stupid ideas, suddenly the game became somewhat enjoyable. And 4 years from now people will look back at SL and remember it for being decent enough during S4 - as with every other expansion of the last decade.

SL in terms of gameplay mostly suffered from the massive content draught as well as being the third one in its formula. SL's legendary formula and lack of an AP grind made it the most accessible of the Legion-likes, but it was still a Legion-like and didn't have the novelty of Legion or its all important content release cadence. While Legion had massive gameplay faults at the start it could tide over Joe Rando with what that content was because it's the first time they'd done dedicated halls, expansion-only power systems and so forth. 7.0 was significantly worse than 9.0 in everything from raid to class gameplay, but we were stuck in 7.0 significantly less and we hadn't seen it all before. Every patch of SL was three months too long and while the content in it was sensibly sized for what it was, it wasn't enough. This meant that just about every problem was massively amplified, as @Sondrelk says.

BFA is a red-headed stepchild. It was the longest expansion, its content schedule was not SL-tier slow, but still too slow. It had not only an infinite grind, but an infinite grind objectively inferior to the one in the prior expansion by dint of being the same for everyone without even the wallpaper of class flavour or whatever. Corruptions were ridiculous when they were on the lottery and continued to be defining even afterwards. I can't comment on 8.2 much as I barely played it past the most basic fare, but BFA was constantly gyrating in design direction, adopting shit ideas and then dropping them minutes later, ending the expansion with an overbearing and parasitic mechanic in Corruption.

I don't understand people who got upset with WoD early on, the story was quite nice and even the gameplay and content were good before 6.1
Afterwards it becomes a pile of missed opportunities for a land that is beautiful with a glorious soundtrack.

Each expac has its strength but BfA will remain to me this project in which blizz dumped way too much money for stories that deserved more narration and subtlety instead.

WoD's main problem was that there was absolutely nothing to do past the first 1-2 months. It had negative longevity. I love the setting, the aesthetic, music, atmosphere and so forth and the various clan lore, arrakkoa so on, but all this doesn't lend itself to actually engaging with the gameplay. It is peak window dressing and the expansion that best captured being in a new world. But in terms of being a game it just fell on its face. I mostly chat lore here on the forums and I like most of the WoD setting if not it's perfunctory and pretty stupid plot, and in that regard it's definitely in the upper middle of WoW expansions, but content-wise it's still the worst.

[Nymrohd]

WoD's main problem was that there was absolutely nothing to do past the first 1-2 months. It had negative longevity. I love the setting, the aesthetic, music, atmosphere and so forth and the various clan lore, arrakkoa so on, but all this doesn't lend itself to actually engaging with the gameplay. It is peak window dressing and the expansion that best captured being in a new world. But in terms of being a game it just fell on its face. I mostly chat lore here on the forums and I like most of the WoD setting if not it's perfunctory and pretty stupid plot, and in that regard it's definitely in the upper middle of WoW expansions, but content-wise it's still the worst.

I had this idea that if they ever wanted to revamp Outland (as in revamp and replace, Cata Style) they could have Yrel or whoever shift AU Draenor and Superimpose it on Outland. We'd get AU Draenor plus some version of the Netherstorm. Ashran could regretably be lost in the transition . . . Maybe Zangarmarsh would land on top of the Zangar Sea and stay (cause sporelings are fun). Then the Light would be launching their Shining Crusade from there instead of some poorly conceived planar concept for a Plane of Light.

- - - Updated - - -

SL in terms of gameplay mostly suffered from the massive content draught as well as being the third one in its formula. SL's legendary formula and lack of an AP grind made it the most accessible of the Legion-likes, but it was still a Legion-like and didn't have the novelty of Legion or its all important content release cadence. While Legion had massive gameplay faults at the start it could tide over Joe Rando with what that content was because it's the first time they'd done dedicated halls, expansion-only power systems and so forth. 7.0 was significantly worse than 9.0 in everything from raid to class gameplay, but we were stuck in 7.0 significantly less and we hadn't seen it all before. Every patch of SL was three months too long and while the content in it was sensibly sized for what it was, it wasn't enough. This meant that just about every problem was massively amplified, as @Sondrelk says.

Beyond the fact that Legion's problematic systems did not last long, I think you are underselling how good a sell class halls and artifact cosmetics were. Class Halls were full of poorly used characters we all wanted to see more of (and then less, go home Liadrin). The toys were great, the world was objectively better simply because it was connected and easily navigable (you could take an fp to Highmountain and toy glide anywhere then whistle back; compare to taking an fp to another zone in SL and forgetting you were playing WoW while alt-tabbed). Meanwhile the SL mogs are not class specific and in many cases your best Covenant would not really fit your class theme (or NO Covenant would fit your class theme); also imo they are just not of the same quality as the ones from Legion. Really the only standout covenant hall feature is the Ember Court?