1. #65761
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean that would be cool as well if we did not JUST have that storyline with Anduin.
    Anduin was under a complete MC, while I was thinking more about hard reality perception change of people infested with void/fel. Also, we shouldn't be getting Light story anytime soon.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-08-20 at 09:04 AM.
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  2. #65762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Every time I see someone advocating Turalyon going evil, I picture a Horde player still salty about Garrosh/Sylvanas. Just like with some still wanting Siege of SW. I just don't see it as a genuine want to spice up the story, but rather as a some kind of a weird "faction justice" thingy.
    The thing is.. It doesn't take much braincells to see this. It doesn't need advocating even. To me, it's the other way around. The ones who are against the idea such as you are trying really hard to make it look like it's a bland, boring, not spicy enough story. While in fact many ideas and theories are liked by a lot. So idk.. it's just seems like you are just dissagreeing here, which is fine.

    Like I said, he doesn't even need to die, or be pure evil. But, hes a perfect candidate to be swayed by the light and start some shit on Azeroth, everyone sees this. I also see enough room for spice, so idk man. I also never though about Sylvanas or Garrosh for one moment here, maybe some do, but not me;p I am only salty about Rastakahn.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-08-20 at 12:03 PM.

  3. #65763
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I don't care either, but isn't it obvious where it all started tho? it started with Xe'ra and her approach to Illidan. Knowing Turalyon is basically praying to her, people were instantly questioning Turalyon. How devoted is he? was he converted? Then him becoming the replacement for Anduin, giving him sorta free reign obviously got the theories flowing.

    I mean, some of them were pretty wild.
    Did you even pay attention to any of the story in 7.3? Turalyon is very clearly devoted to something, yes. But it isn't Xe'ra. It's his wife. And even there, his devotion doesn't descend into fanaticism. He's not a fanatic.

    It took little more than a few words from Velen to get him to see that a) Illidan was more important than the now-dead Xe'ra and b) that what Xe'ra was trying was an attack on Illidan. A fanatic would never even consider either of those points. There's sadly way to much evidence of just how far fanatics are willing to go to ignore reality in favour of their preconceived worldview.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    But, hes a perfect candidate to be swayed by the light and start some shit on Azeroth, everyone sees this. I also see enough room for spice, so idk what your on about.
    No, he's not. The Scarlets would be, and maybe some of the Lightforged, but Turalyon is a complete miss that you don't seem to have actually bothered to properly research.

  4. #65764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    But we already had answers to this. Willing to question her to save his wife, willing to work with the man who murdered her. That is not the story of a fanatic. A fanatic would be questioning his wife that had not seen for hundreds of years due to her ties with the wife; not work with her while she is openly using the Void. A fanatic would have continued with his attack on Illidan instead of immediately stopping at the first prompt by Velen and at least detained him after; not stand right next to him and continue with shared plans.
    That's all great, but playing it a bit save here. Well, hes god got destroyed in front of hes eyes and got stopped with one hand of Illidan, while he was already down cus of Xe'ra. Made Illidan look a lot stronger there. That little moment tho is not enough to know exactly how he see or how he act in the future, it was just a new look at the light and how it could act. Turlyon being the number one follower, made the the ideas come pretty natural. Now knowing that Greymane will leave for Gilneas it only fuels the ideas, you know.. hes in SW alone. Planning or getting whispers of Xe'ra to bring her on Azeroth or what ever. I mean.. it's easy and you could go into different directions here. It really doesn't sound bad to me. Not my idea tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Turalyon would be a great character to forge an initial alliance with Yrel if she comes, try to advocate for the Light and her Crusade but immediately turn on her when she turns on his wife or commits atrocities. If there is a Light vs Void campaign, Turalyon has perfectly set himself up to be a moderate that wants us to all work together against the greater threats.
    But like.. that's just one way to do it. A setup for an eventual confrontation wit Yrel and what her plans are, could go in all sorts of ways, but she obviously needs allies. Using the Naaru or the light to sway Turalyon over would be a tactical move, while they wait to move to Azeroth. Xe'ra could play a role here. Sure the idea that Yrel will think very differently over Alleria being there could go in the way your saying, but..

    I could also see Turalyon being swayed over time and start to act weird and hes look in hes eyes change. Slow build up kind of story. Eventually leading into being swayed so hard that he will gather old and new allies who share the view. Scarlets could be involved here. All All I am saying is.. Turalyon has potential, he could be an interesting character, but for him to become that, he needs more then goody two shoe and saving the world. Hes devotion to the light could be explored and how he view things can change..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    If anything the problem is that while the Light vs Void seems to be a central struggle for Warcraft, the Horde has been given almost nothing to work with there. They recently got Calia but I doubt Forsaken players will ever embrace her. They completely failed to capitalize on Zabra, making him SHADOW ffs in the priest hall instead of showing how any race can follow the Light. While Natalie Seline is a great character she immediately robs the spotlight from the previous leadership of the Church of the Forgotten Shadow like Aethalyste. We did get Geyarah who will be a central character Horde side against the Light but has no ties to the Void (and if anyone is a fanatic, she is). So when the Light vs Void happens we will once again have an expansion where Alliance characters will be front and center and the Horde will have no one to relate to.
    Yea, I think you are right. It's hard to think about a cool hook for the horde with light v void. Blood elves come to mind as they currently bathe in the light. It would be yet another elf vs elf thing, while thining about it. Idk for some reason I liked Natalie, she felt mysterious at first. We have couple of other characters still left.. I don't like her, but we have the queen of Zandalar who is priest. Still.. no one really has a true link to that story, it would need some big build up on the horde side. Atleast to have some kind of anchor there. Using all of these random characters to drive the story no one really cares about would just fall flat sadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Did you even pay attention to any of the story in 7.3? Turalyon is very clearly devoted to something, yes. But it isn't Xe'ra. It's his wife. And even there, his devotion doesn't descend into fanaticism. He's not a fanatic.
    I think you missed the point, you are just describing of what happened. I think you actually asked the same question in other words before. But, this is what actually started those theories and ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, he's not. The Scarlets would be, and maybe some of the Lightforged, but Turalyon is a complete miss that you don't seem to have actually bothered to properly research.
    Ye, he is. I mean.. It's fine you are dissagreeing, but no please don't give Turalyon more credit then he deserves right now. Me saying Turalyons view can change has little to nothing to do with me needing to do research.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-08-20 at 11:55 AM.

  5. #65765
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    Tbf, i never thought Turalyon deserves to be villain material. He is literal hero and good guy back in WC2 story and following. Like with no flaws Arthas had. He was basically Anduin before Anduin.
    Mind you, not good guy as like "Devoted to Light", but genuinely good person. Realistically it would be impossible for him to become fanatic being that good.
    On other hand, he literally lived for thousand(s) years, fighting Legion. This can change people. But when we finally met Turalyon he still was a good guy even though his bond with Xera was obvious.
    He is still devoted to his wife who is the bringer of Light's antipod.
    He is still good guy.
    Its honestly hard to turn him into not boring villain. Hence why i doubt Danuser will try to do it.
    Turalyon on other hand may become nice anti-hero, who helped the Light but realized his mistakes and try to fix them.
    I would even emphasize on his similarity to Illidan who he hated in Legion - the person who blindly followed Legion just to realize his mistake and then putting everything to fix it.

    As for the who Stormwind throne belongs to - i doubt Turalyon will be the villain usurper. It simply doesnt fit him.
    Id be more happy with Sabellian-Wrathion type of dynamic between older, way more experienced Turalyon and young Anduin. Like, Turalyon would tell Anduin he is too bratty to be the king, so the theme of Dragonflight would be both Wrathion and Anduin trying to grow into Sabellian and Turalyon shoes.
    Last edited by Harbour; 2022-08-20 at 12:00 PM.

  6. #65766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Not really all that unusual. The United Kingdom spent almost the entirety of 1750-1925 at war with someone, somewhere. It's not like there wasn't still shit tons of war between WWI and WWII in eastern and southeastern Europe. France spent almost 15 years at war with everyone nearby under Napolean, while the Ottomans fought everyone else nearby and the Russians kept attacking everyone, and then before anything could settle down the French came back and invaded spain and then the Ottomans and Russians went back to fighting each other again.

    Azeroth's wars are on a larger scale because the players aren't small regions of the world, they're planet-level or interplanetary forces, but it's really not very unusual for there to be constant couple-year wars, especially in a time period pre-industrialization.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...%E2%80%931908)
    Yeah, but revolution/Napoleonic wars was one big war with some time to breathe from time to time. Of course big conflict like that happened very often in the past, 17th century was one big war everywhere. But it's not the same as dealing with new existential threat every year, it's ridiculous.

  7. #65767
    People who think Turalyon will become a villain are just Horde fanboys who still haven't gotten over SoO after 10 years.

    Stormwind is the Gondor/House Stark of Azeroth. Turalyon, the Regent of Stormwnid, will never become a villain.

    Stormwind will become a raid only in the dreams of these fanboys. Quite literally. The only instance where it will ever be a raid is in those dreams of N'Zoth, where Alleria Windrunner, by the way, single-handedly brought the Alliance to its knees.

  8. #65768
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    But like.. that's just one way to do it. A setup for an eventual confrontation wit Yrel and what her plans are, could go in all sorts of ways, but she obviously needs allies. Using the Naaru or the light to sway Turalyon over would be a tactical move, while they wait to move to Azeroth. Xe'ra could play a role here. Sure the idea that Yrel will think very differently over Alleria being there could go in the way your saying, but..
    So the same story we already had over and over? Your best idea is to make him as boring and copycat as possible? Might as well just grab somebody who is already a fanatic for that, there's no shortage of that.

  9. #65769
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Turalyon heel turn incoming.

  10. #65770
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    People who think Turalyon will become a villain are just Horde fanboys who still haven't gotten over SoO after 10 years.

    Stormwind is the Gondor/House Stark of Azeroth. Turalyon, the Regent of Stormwnid, will never become a villain.

    Stormwind will become a raid only in the dreams of these fanboys. Quite literally. The only instance where it will ever be a raid is in those dreams of N'Zoth, where Alleria Windrunner, by the way, single-handedly brought the Alliance to its knees.
    You forget Garrosh's last phase in SoO.
    That was set in Stormwind too.

    But didn't they already start some fires during BfA's prelude?

    Though i would not be opposed to raiding Stormwind as Alliance, i liked it during visions of N'zoth. On the condition that we get the Horde treatment of such things too though; we "lose" but everything we see, hear and experience in the game from then onwards will reflect that the opposite has actually happened.
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  11. #65771
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    When we get the inevitable Light bad expansion plot, we'll inevitable explore the Lights effect on minds.

    Turalyon is pumped with Light and is sitting at one of the highest leadership position in the Alliance.
    Sure, he might not be an extreme zealot right now, but that doesn't mean he can't be manipulated into becoming one or even be force converted like Yrel did with some of the Mag'har.
    He's a prime canditate for mind shenanigans.


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  12. #65772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    When we get the inevitable Light bad expansion plot, we'll inevitable explore the Lights effect on minds.

    Turalyon is pumped with Light and is sitting at one of the highest leadership position in the Alliance.
    Sure, he might not be an extreme zealot right now, but that doesn't mean he can't be manipulated into becoming one or even be force converted like Yrel did with some of the Mag'har.
    He's a prime canditate for mind shenanigans.
    That's what I am saying, why wouldn't he be a candidate? hes views can change, but ye there are just a lot of ways how it could potentially play out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    So the same story we already had over and over? Your best idea is to make him as boring and copycat as possible? Might as well just grab somebody who is already a fanatic for that, there's no shortage of that.
    What are you on about? Idk this could be done in a completely different way, Turalyon is available for anything and he is currently in a very tactical spot, hence the focus on him. No, hes not that fanatical right now, but things can change slowly over time. Anything can happen honestly. It doesn't need to happen, but hes an easy target for that kind of story.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2022-08-20 at 01:31 PM.

  13. #65773
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  14. #65774
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    You forget Garrosh's last phase in SoO.
    That was set in Stormwind too.

    But didn't they already start some fires during BfA's prelude?

    Though i would not be opposed to raiding Stormwind as Alliance, i liked it during visions of N'zoth. On the condition that we get the Horde treatment of such things too though; we "lose" but everything we see, hear and experience in the game from then onwards will reflect that the opposite has actually happened.
    That was also in an Old God vision, although that one came from Y'Shaarj.

    In the BfA prelude, it was explicitly stated by Saurfang that the Horde could never hope to take Stormwind.

    So, Canonically, the Horde has no chance of ever capturing Stormwind.

    From the novel A Good War:
    “I agree,” Sylvanas said. “It would be a disaster. I have hopes that we will soon have an advantage over the Alliance at sea, but even so, our entire fleet would have to be committed to the attack. Every other Alliance nation could invade our territories in retaliation, and we could not stop them. Knowing all of that, how would you destroy Stormwind, High Overlord Saurfang?”

    Saurfang kept a tight rein on his tone. “Do you want me to lie to you, Warchief? Do you want me to tell you it’s possible when it’s not?
    Canonically, War general and military strategist Saurfang confirms that it is scientifically impossible to take Stormwind.

    Turalyon and Alleria Windrunner can rest easy, knowing that the mighty defences of their capital can never be breached.

    Perhaps it should serve as a reminder that, lorewise, Stormwind is the heart and capital of the Alliance as well as the largest human city left on Azeroth.

    Do you remember how breathtaking and amazing Boralus looked? Stormwind is supposed to dwarf that city. Do not be surprised, then, to learn that it's impossible for any army to take Stormwind.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2022-08-20 at 01:49 PM.

  15. #65775
    I like how Danuser basically confirmed a future expansion that includes Gilneas, but people are just still mad that DF isn't a revamp.

    If Ion came out and said "yes 11.0 is a world revamp" people would still find a way to be mad (WTF IT ISN'T KARESH??? and BUT I LIKE CATA WESTFALL!!!)
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2022-08-20 at 02:03 PM.

  16. #65776
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    What are you on about? Idk this could be done in a completely different way, Turalyon is available for anything and he is currently in a very tactical spot, hence the focus on him. No, hes not that fanatical right now, but things can change slowly over time. Anything can happen honestly. It doesn't need to happen, but hes an easy target for that kind of story.
    Sure, anything can happen in the sense that it is technically possible to write the story that way. But that's not remotely the same as it being likely. You might as well argue that DF is about everybody randomly turning into pumpkins with that logic.

  17. #65777
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I like how Danuser basically confirmed a future expansion that includes Gilneas, but people are just still mad that DF isn't a revamp.

    If Ion came out and said "yes 11.0 is a world revamp" people would still find a way to be mad (WTF IT ISN'T KARESH??? and BUT I LIKE CATA WESTFALL!!!)
    I hope it is, but that's not at all what I read in his response. It seemed to me that was the Blizz team more or less saying they want to show those events someday & don't want to change the world until those events are shown...in essence, kicking the can down the road. While 11.0 may well be a revamp (which I still suspect it is), that seemed more like a "we just don't want to do it right now" sort of thing.

    To his point, he's not wrong. Given the amount of people complaining about world/plot changes happening in books instead of in game, I can totally see why the team wouldn't want to just have Gilneas go back without a questline or the like.

  18. #65778
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    I hope it is, but that's not at all what I read in his response. It seemed to me that was the Blizz team more or less saying they want to show those events someday & don't want to change the world until those events are shown...in essence, kicking the can down the road. While 11.0 may well be a revamp (which I still suspect it is), that seemed more like a "we just don't want to do it right now" sort of thing.

    To his point, he's not wrong. Given the amount of people complaining about world/plot changes happening in books instead of in game, I can totally see why the team wouldn't want to just have Gilneas go back without a questline or the like.
    The thing is, it's better now than it used to be. Stormrage and Wolfheart had enough going on (add the Medan novel) to be a full expansion. War Crimes should have been 5.4.5 (or 5.5?). Sylvanas has a lot of information but at least it's not actual gameplay content missing from the game; it's 2-3 cutscenes missing across time. Illidan was a soft retcon of TBC, not much they could do there.

    Ofc perhaps the issue might be that the last few books are just attempts to fix the lore cause they f'd it up in game.

  19. #65779
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The thing is, it's better now than it used to be. Stormrage and Wolfheart had enough going on (add the Medan novel) to be a full expansion. War Crimes should have been 5.4.5 (or 5.5?). Sylvanas has a lot of information but at least it's not actual gameplay content missing from the game; it's 2-3 cutscenes missing across time. Illidan was a soft retcon of TBC, not much they could do there.

    Ofc perhaps the issue might be that the last few books are just attempts to fix the lore cause they f'd it up in game.
    Stormrage could have easily been the Emerald Nightmare Expansion, but honestly I don't even remember what the plot of Wolfheart was besides "Worgen want to join the Alliance and Maiv is suddenly crazy". TBC needed to be retconned, it's the worst expansion lorewise together with BfA *shudders*.

    Let's hope NewBlizzard won't fuck up the lore again this time haha.

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  20. #65780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Stormrage could have easily been the Emerald Nightmare Expansion, but honestly I don't even remember what the plot of Wolfheart was besides "Worgen want to join the Alliance and Maiv is suddenly crazy". TBC needed to be retconned, it's the worst expansion lorewise together with BfA *shudders*.

    Let's hope NewBlizzard won't fuck up the lore again this time haha.
    Wolfheart was about how Varian was struggling a lot with his rage and he was not the best terms with Genn Greymane and his worgen. He also was distant with his son due to his anger, he went through the same ritual all worgen go through. And yeah Maiev went insane cause reasons. Such a dumb thing to do back then lol
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