Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Harbour]

Tbf, i never thought Turalyon deserves to be villain material. He is literal hero and good guy back in WC2 story and following. Like with no flaws Arthas had. He was basically Anduin before Anduin.
Mind you, not good guy as like "Devoted to Light", but genuinely good person. Realistically it would be impossible for him to become fanatic being that good.
On other hand, he literally lived for thousand(s) years, fighting Legion. This can change people. But when we finally met Turalyon he still was a good guy even though his bond with Xera was obvious.
He is still devoted to his wife who is the bringer of Light's antipod.
He is still good guy.
Its honestly hard to turn him into not boring villain. Hence why i doubt Danuser will try to do it.
Turalyon on other hand may become nice anti-hero, who helped the Light but realized his mistakes and try to fix them.
I would even emphasize on his similarity to Illidan who he hated in Legion - the person who blindly followed Legion just to realize his mistake and then putting everything to fix it.

As for the who Stormwind throne belongs to - i doubt Turalyon will be the villain usurper. It simply doesnt fit him.
Id be more happy with Sabellian-Wrathion type of dynamic between older, way more experienced Turalyon and young Anduin. Like, Turalyon would tell Anduin he is too bratty to be the king, so the theme of Dragonflight would be both Wrathion and Anduin trying to grow into Sabellian and Turalyon shoes.

[Dracullus]

Not really all that unusual. The United Kingdom spent almost the entirety of 1750-1925 at war with someone, somewhere. It's not like there wasn't still shit tons of war between WWI and WWII in eastern and southeastern Europe. France spent almost 15 years at war with everyone nearby under Napolean, while the Ottomans fought everyone else nearby and the Russians kept attacking everyone, and then before anything could settle down the French came back and invaded spain and then the Ottomans and Russians went back to fighting each other again.

Azeroth's wars are on a larger scale because the players aren't small regions of the world, they're planet-level or interplanetary forces, but it's really not very unusual for there to be constant couple-year wars, especially in a time period pre-industrialization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...%E2%80%931908)

Yeah, but revolution/Napoleonic wars was one big war with some time to breathe from time to time. Of course big conflict like that happened very often in the past, 17th century was one big war everywhere. But it's not the same as dealing with new existential threat every year, it's ridiculous.

[Varodoc]

People who think Turalyon will become a villain are just Horde fanboys who still haven't gotten over SoO after 10 years.

Stormwind is the Gondor/House Stark of Azeroth. Turalyon, the Regent of Stormwnid, will never become a villain.

Stormwind will become a raid only in the dreams of these fanboys. Quite literally. The only instance where it will ever be a raid is in those dreams of N'Zoth, where Alleria Windrunner, by the way, single-handedly brought the Alliance to its knees.

[huth]

But like.. that's just one way to do it. A setup for an eventual confrontation wit Yrel and what her plans are, could go in all sorts of ways, but she obviously needs allies. Using the Naaru or the light to sway Turalyon over would be a tactical move, while they wait to move to Azeroth. Xe'ra could play a role here. Sure the idea that Yrel will think very differently over Alleria being there could go in the way your saying, but..

So the same story we already had over and over? Your best idea is to make him as boring and copycat as possible? Might as well just grab somebody who is already a fanatic for that, there's no shortage of that.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Turalyon heel turn incoming.

[loras]

People who think Turalyon will become a villain are just Horde fanboys who still haven't gotten over SoO after 10 years.

Stormwind is the Gondor/House Stark of Azeroth. Turalyon, the Regent of Stormwnid, will never become a villain.

Stormwind will become a raid only in the dreams of these fanboys. Quite literally. The only instance where it will ever be a raid is in those dreams of N'Zoth, where Alleria Windrunner, by the way, single-handedly brought the Alliance to its knees.

You forget Garrosh's last phase in SoO.
That was set in Stormwind too.

But didn't they already start some fires during BfA's prelude?

Though i would not be opposed to raiding Stormwind as Alliance, i liked it during visions of N'zoth. On the condition that we get the Horde treatment of such things too though; we "lose" but everything we see, hear and experience in the game from then onwards will reflect that the opposite has actually happened.

[Raetary]

When we get the inevitable Light bad expansion plot, we'll inevitable explore the Lights effect on minds.

Turalyon is pumped with Light and is sitting at one of the highest leadership position in the Alliance.
Sure, he might not be an extreme zealot right now, but that doesn't mean he can't be manipulated into becoming one or even be force converted like Yrel did with some of the Mag'har.
He's a prime canditate for mind shenanigans.

[Alanar]

When we get the inevitable Light bad expansion plot, we'll inevitable explore the Lights effect on minds.

Turalyon is pumped with Light and is sitting at one of the highest leadership position in the Alliance.
Sure, he might not be an extreme zealot right now, but that doesn't mean he can't be manipulated into becoming one or even be force converted like Yrel did with some of the Mag'har.
He's a prime canditate for mind shenanigans.

That's what I am saying, why wouldn't he be a candidate? hes views can change, but ye there are just a lot of ways how it could potentially play out.

- - - Updated - - -

So the same story we already had over and over? Your best idea is to make him as boring and copycat as possible? Might as well just grab somebody who is already a fanatic for that, there's no shortage of that.

What are you on about? Idk this could be done in a completely different way, Turalyon is available for anything and he is currently in a very tactical spot, hence the focus on him. No, hes not that fanatical right now, but things can change slowly over time. Anything can happen honestly. It doesn't need to happen, but hes an easy target for that kind of story.

[Makabreska]

Dragonflight best expansion confirmed!

[Varodoc]

You forget Garrosh's last phase in SoO.
That was set in Stormwind too.

But didn't they already start some fires during BfA's prelude?

Though i would not be opposed to raiding Stormwind as Alliance, i liked it during visions of N'zoth. On the condition that we get the Horde treatment of such things too though; we "lose" but everything we see, hear and experience in the game from then onwards will reflect that the opposite has actually happened.

That was also in an Old God vision, although that one came from Y'Shaarj.

In the BfA prelude, it was explicitly stated by Saurfang that the Horde could never hope to take Stormwind.

So, Canonically, the Horde has no chance of ever capturing Stormwind.

From the novel A Good War:

“I agree,” Sylvanas said. “It would be a disaster. I have hopes that we will soon have an advantage over the Alliance at sea, but even so, our entire fleet would have to be committed to the attack. Every other Alliance nation could invade our territories in retaliation, and we could not stop them. Knowing all of that, how would you destroy Stormwind, High Overlord Saurfang?”

Saurfang kept a tight rein on his tone. “Do you want me to lie to you, Warchief? Do you want me to tell you it’s possible when it’s not?”

Canonically, War general and military strategist Saurfang confirms that it is scientifically impossible to take Stormwind.

Turalyon and Alleria Windrunner can rest easy, knowing that the mighty defences of their capital can never be breached.

Perhaps it should serve as a reminder that, lorewise, Stormwind is the heart and capital of the Alliance as well as the largest human city left on Azeroth.

Do you remember how breathtaking and amazing Boralus looked? Stormwind is supposed to dwarf that city. Do not be surprised, then, to learn that it's impossible for any army to take Stormwind.

[Cheezits]

I like how Danuser basically confirmed a future expansion that includes Gilneas, but people are just still mad that DF isn't a revamp.

If Ion came out and said "yes 11.0 is a world revamp" people would still find a way to be mad (WTF IT ISN'T KARESH??? and BUT I LIKE CATA WESTFALL!!!)

[huth]

What are you on about? Idk this could be done in a completely different way, Turalyon is available for anything and he is currently in a very tactical spot, hence the focus on him. No, hes not that fanatical right now, but things can change slowly over time. Anything can happen honestly. It doesn't need to happen, but hes an easy target for that kind of story.

Sure, anything can happen in the sense that it is technically possible to write the story that way. But that's not remotely the same as it being likely. You might as well argue that DF is about everybody randomly turning into pumpkins with that logic.

[AngerFork]

I like how Danuser basically confirmed a future expansion that includes Gilneas, but people are just still mad that DF isn't a revamp.

If Ion came out and said "yes 11.0 is a world revamp" people would still find a way to be mad (WTF IT ISN'T KARESH??? and BUT I LIKE CATA WESTFALL!!!)

I hope it is, but that's not at all what I read in his response. It seemed to me that was the Blizz team more or less saying they want to show those events someday & don't want to change the world until those events are shown...in essence, kicking the can down the road. While 11.0 may well be a revamp (which I still suspect it is), that seemed more like a "we just don't want to do it right now" sort of thing.

To his point, he's not wrong. Given the amount of people complaining about world/plot changes happening in books instead of in game, I can totally see why the team wouldn't want to just have Gilneas go back without a questline or the like.

[Nymrohd]

I hope it is, but that's not at all what I read in his response. It seemed to me that was the Blizz team more or less saying they want to show those events someday & don't want to change the world until those events are shown...in essence, kicking the can down the road. While 11.0 may well be a revamp (which I still suspect it is), that seemed more like a "we just don't want to do it right now" sort of thing.

To his point, he's not wrong. Given the amount of people complaining about world/plot changes happening in books instead of in game, I can totally see why the team wouldn't want to just have Gilneas go back without a questline or the like.

The thing is, it's better now than it used to be. Stormrage and Wolfheart had enough going on (add the Medan novel) to be a full expansion. War Crimes should have been 5.4.5 (or 5.5?). Sylvanas has a lot of information but at least it's not actual gameplay content missing from the game; it's 2-3 cutscenes missing across time. Illidan was a soft retcon of TBC, not much they could do there.

Ofc perhaps the issue might be that the last few books are just attempts to fix the lore cause they f'd it up in game.

[Lady Atia]

The thing is, it's better now than it used to be. Stormrage and Wolfheart had enough going on (add the Medan novel) to be a full expansion. War Crimes should have been 5.4.5 (or 5.5?). Sylvanas has a lot of information but at least it's not actual gameplay content missing from the game; it's 2-3 cutscenes missing across time. Illidan was a soft retcon of TBC, not much they could do there.

Ofc perhaps the issue might be that the last few books are just attempts to fix the lore cause they f'd it up in game.

Stormrage could have easily been the Emerald Nightmare Expansion, but honestly I don't even remember what the plot of Wolfheart was besides "Worgen want to join the Alliance and Maiv is suddenly crazy". TBC needed to be retconned, it's the worst expansion lorewise together with BfA *shudders*.

Let's hope NewBlizzard won't fuck up the lore again this time haha.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Stormrage could have easily been the Emerald Nightmare Expansion, but honestly I don't even remember what the plot of Wolfheart was besides "Worgen want to join the Alliance and Maiv is suddenly crazy". TBC needed to be retconned, it's the worst expansion lorewise together with BfA *shudders*.

Let's hope NewBlizzard won't fuck up the lore again this time haha.

Wolfheart was about how Varian was struggling a lot with his rage and he was not the best terms with Genn Greymane and his worgen. He also was distant with his son due to his anger, he went through the same ritual all worgen go through. And yeah Maiev went insane cause reasons. Such a dumb thing to do back then lol

[Khaza-R]

I like how Danuser basically confirmed a future expansion that includes Gilneas, but people are just still mad that DF isn't a revamp.

If Ion came out and said "yes 11.0 is a world revamp" people would still find a way to be mad (WTF IT ISN'T KARESH??? and BUT I LIKE CATA WESTFALL!!!)

I don't take it as confirmation. But its still nice they won't just hand wave such events off screen and be like "oh Gilneas is great and prospering again" in a book without you seeing it in-game.

[Biomega]

I like how Danuser basically confirmed a future expansion that includes Gilneas, but people are just still mad that DF isn't a revamp.

I love how "if we were to do that, we'd do it with in-game questing" turns into "basically confirmed a future expansion that includes it".

And people wonder why devs are reluctant to say anything but the most vague, generic shit. This is why. Forums immediately take things and run WILD.

[huth]

I like how Danuser basically confirmed a future expansion that includes Gilneas, but people are just still mad that DF isn't a revamp.

No, he didn't. Keyword is "if". All he confirms is that they're striving to have more important lore moments happen in the game, not that any particular moment is going to happen.

[Skildar]

The thing is, it's better now than it used to be. Stormrage and Wolfheart had enough going on (add the Medan novel) to be a full expansion. War Crimes should have been 5.4.5 (or 5.5?). Sylvanas has a lot of information but at least it's not actual gameplay content missing from the game; it's 2-3 cutscenes missing across time. Illidan was a soft retcon of TBC, not much they could do there.

Ofc perhaps the issue might be that the last few books are just attempts to fix the lore cause they f'd it up in game.

What I've liked with some plots brought by books is that they took the time to flesh out why the events are important or how they make sense. Voljin's book is a very nice read but 5.3 would have felt so much better with more of these moments integrated in game.

But of course a book will always be an easier format to narrate stories than a game.

On a sidenote, I've liked a lot every short stories accessible online on the official website and for free. They should definitely do more of these. The one for Bolvar and the four horsemen is really enjoyable and goves you something to look forward to. Too bad these characters were so badly used during Shadowlands.

Anyway with Sylvanas, they've made a big mess because they've never given any rope to grab on so that we could follow even a bit what's happening. Let it be in books or ingame.
In Legion, it feels like a forgotten thread. In Before the Storm, it feels like she just wants to rule with mutinee for every part. In A Good War, the horde got its back against the wall and she needs to create momentum. In BfA, she's not a warchief, she's scheming on a level no character or player can follow. In Shadow rising, she's barely there and her pawns are barely aware of what's going on. In Shadowlands, she's suddenly an open book...

The issue I'm having here is that you only get the rope in the last moment when the whole story has been started for 6 years at least and multiple books didn't help at all.

And with that we had to suffer Saurfang nonsense : "Sylavans is right we need to start a war and I'm going to lead it! Oh no! War means killing people without letting them more chances to kill you! No wait confusion is hitting me hard! Me good orc...I need human prison and human approval... Sylvanas bad and needs to be stopped because she... no one knows but she's against our world!"