Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Snufflupagus]

And yet you still hang out here. Curious.

Reading all about the new features so as to make detailed posts about them. Curiouser and curiouser.

[loras]

That was also in an Old God vision, although that one came from Y'Shaarj.

In the BfA prelude, it was explicitly stated by Saurfang that the Horde could never hope to take Stormwind.

So, Canonically, the Horde has no chance of ever capturing Stormwind.

From the novel A Good War:


Canonically, War general and military strategist Saurfang confirms that it is scientifically impossible to take Stormwind.

Turalyon and Alleria Windrunner can rest easy, knowing that the mighty defences of their capital can never be breached.

Perhaps it should serve as a reminder that, lorewise, Stormwind is the heart and capital of the Alliance as well as the largest human city left on Azeroth.

Do you remember how breathtaking and amazing Boralus looked? Stormwind is supposed to dwarf that city. Do not be surprised, then, to learn that it's impossible for any army to take Stormwind.

Has science turned into a buzzword nowadays?
Sure does seem like it, not targetting you in particular here.

At any rate i remember a certain dragon settling his flaming arse squarely on the front gate, torching an entire district in one go, knocking over several statues, getting bored and flying off again after fetching his dead daughter's head, so i would not exactly overestimate its defenses either.
They're great, yeah, but next to i.e. Antorus or Ny'alotha, well, i don't think it can hold a candle to them.
And we raided those places just fine, like the bunch of merry murderhobos we are.

[huth]

Has science turned into a buzzword nowadays?
Sure does seem like it, not targetting you in particular here.

Well, strategy and tactics are aspects of military science, so it isn't completely inaccurate. Though mathematically impossible would make more sense, i.e. the Horde simply can't spare the forces that would be needed to achieve the goal, if it even has them.

And while Deathwing managed to cause some damage, he didn't exactly conquer the city nor did he even have the ability - that would have required him to bring an occupying force. We didn't conquer Antorus or Ny'alotha, either. We carved a bloody swath through them, but we wouldn't have had any way to hold them. Our advantage was that we didn't need to.

[loras]

Well, strategy and tactics are aspects of military science, so it isn't completely inaccurate. Though mathematically impossible would make more sense, i.e. the Horde simply can't spare the forces that would be needed to achieve the goal, if it even has them.

And while Deathwing managed to cause some damage, he didn't exactly conquer the city nor did he even have the ability - that would have required him to bring an occupying force. We didn't conquer Antorus or Ny'alotha, either. We carved a bloody swath through them, but we wouldn't have had any way to hold them. Our advantage was that we didn't need to.

I rather doubt that military science would use terms like "mathematical impossibility", history is rife with unlikelihoods and almost every aspect of warfare revolves around having grossly incomplete information. It does not seem beneficial to pretend outcomes can ever be considered impossible on the basis of calculation.

What is conquest? If he had burned the whole of Stormwind and taken a nap in the ashes could you seriously claim with a straight face that Deathwing had not conquered it?

And in regards to Ny'alotha: We literally killed all leaders and evrn their god, what more could you seriously ask for before calling it conquered? Their reality disintegrated; defeat does not get more thorough than that.

[huth]

I rather doubt that military science would use terms like "mathematical impossibility", history is rife with unlikelihoods and almost every aspect of warfare revolves around having grossly incomplete information. It does not seem beneficial to pretend outcomes can ever be considered impossible on the basis of calculation.

What is conquest? If he had burned the whole of Stormwind and taken a nap in the ashes could you seriously claim with a straight face that Deathwing had not conquered it?

And in regards to Ny'alotha: We literally killed all leaders and evrn their god, what more could you seriously ask for before calling it conquered? Their reality disintegrated; defeat does not get more thorough than that.

Mathematical impossible ultimately just means the numbers don't add up. I don't disagree that it likely wouldn't be used, but it isn't technically wrong for an attack that has no percievable chance of succeeding.

Conquest means taking and holding an objective. Destroying it isn't doing either. So yes, i could and would claim that he had not conquered it, he'd have destroyed it.
Same goes for Ny'alotha: We didn't conquer it, we destroyed it.

[Nymrohd]

What I've liked with some plots brought by books is that they took the time to flesh out why the events are important or how they make sense. Voljin's book is a very nice read but 5.3 would have felt so much better with more of these moments integrated in game.

But of course a book will always be an easier format to narrate stories than a game.

On a sidenote, I've liked a lot every short stories accessible online on the official website and for free. They should definitely do more of these. The one for Bolvar and the four horsemen is really enjoyable and goves you something to look forward to. Too bad these characters were so badly used during Shadowlands."

I think what would help would be releasing anthologies of short stories. Instead of telling a larger story through a novel, build the war and introduce new characters through multiple short stories.I honestly am unsure that the novel sales are that important a revenue.

[Raetary]

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...dZCV50wzA&s=19

So, this is very interesting.

[Annihilas]

i like how danuser basically confirmed a future expansion that includes gilneas, but people are just still mad that df isn't a revamp.

If ion came out and said "yes 11.0 is a world revamp" people would still find a way to be mad (wtf it isn't karesh??? And but i like cata westfall!!!)

You mean it SHOULD be K'aresh! Playable Ethereal please?

[Snufflupagus]

I think what would help would be releasing anthologies of short stories. Instead of telling a larger story through a novel, build the war and introduce new characters through multiple short stories.I honestly am unsure that the novel sales are that important a revenue.

I’ve always wondered about this. I feel like gamers aren’t typically big readers and non-gamers aren’t going read WoW books, so the crossover is already pretty slim. On top of that, big readers are often inclined to read stuff that’s a bit more worthwhile, so even the big-reading gamers probably aren’t chewing through WoW novels. It’s got to be a pretty small market indeed.

Furthermore, books notoriously don’t exactly make stacks of money, and WoW novels aren’t topping bestseller lists. Surely it’s clear that the main purpose of the novels is to tell the story rather than to make money? And surely that could be done more quickly, cheaply, and with a bigger readership (I wouldn’t read a WoW novel in a million years but I’d page through a short story in my lunch break) if the stories were posted for free?

[Nymrohd]

I’ve always wondered about this. I feel like gamers aren’t typically big readers and non-gamers aren’t going read WoW books, so the crossover is already pretty slim. On top of that, big readers are often inclined to read stuff that’s a bit more worthwhile, so even the big-reading gamers probably aren’t chewing through WoW novels. It’s got to be a pretty small market indeed.

Furthermore, books notoriously don’t exactly make stacks of money, and WoW novels aren’t topping bestseller lists. Surely it’s clear that the main purpose of the novels is to tell the story rather than to make money? And surely that could be done more quickly, cheaply, and with a bigger readership (I wouldn’t read a WoW novel in a million years but I’d page through a short story in my lunch break) if the stories were posted for free?

I remember for a while Magic The Gathering stopped the novels and instead released the block stories as a series of short stories for free. It wasn't the best fantasy fiction I read by any means but it was decent, in bite sized chunks and frequent enough to keep you coming back. I would love a similar format for WoW.

[Skildar]

I think what would help would be releasing anthologies of short stories. Instead of telling a larger story through a novel, build the war and introduce new characters through multiple short stories.I honestly am unsure that the novel sales are that important a revenue.

I'm not sure if the novels, being a good revenue source or not, are done to bring some kind of legitimacy to the franchise or just to do something with stories that won't make it into the game.

[Nymrohd]

I'm not sure if the novels, being a good revenue source or not, are done to bring some kind of legitimacy to the franchise or just to do something with stories that won't make it into the game.

Or, and don't hate me for this, because writers dream of their New York Time's bestseller count and just want the credit.

[Skildar]

Or, and don't hate me for this, because writers dream of their New York Time's bestseller count and just want the credit.

no hate, there might be some truth in this. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some specific lines about this in Golden's contract with Blizzard. We will never know how competent a story writer for the game she is, but my eyes and mind suffered enough to know how bad of a novellist she truly is and yet she gets to display her NY times best seller medal on every book she gets published...

[Nymrohd]

no hate, there might be some truth in this. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some specific lines about this in Golden's contract with Blizzard. We will never know how competent a story writer for the game she is, but my eyes and mind suffered enough to know how bad of a novellist she truly is and yet she gets to display her NY times best seller medal on every book she gets published...

I mean your novel can be painful to read but if it is attached to the right brand, it will still sell enough to make the list. It's that simple.

[Annihilas]

K'aresh is way too early, tf do you mean???

For 11.0??? They could do the Argus x.3 treatment?

- - - Updated - - -

...But tbh 12.0 MAX I'd wait!

[Skildar]

I mean your novel can be painful to read but if it is attached to the right brand, it will still sell enough to make the list. It's that simple.

Her merit was to write a book about Arthas, that is it. I understand that a lot of writers want to seize these opportunities but If blizzard could do better screenings when choosing their contractors-partners, everyone would win in it. And the chances of players picking up a book from the game's universe would be higher and they wouldn't say they feel forced reading it when it is an enjoyable experience.

[Worldshaper]

No more space travelling or cosmic expansions, please.

11.0 - World Revamp (Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms). Perhaps a few new islands previously missing, just to add something new.

12.0 - Vanilla/MoP style expansion in that we do something completely new and explore lore we haven't seen before. I'm thinking we travel to the other side of Azeroth and discover a new continent where no one has gone before. (Except for all those missing sailors.) I know Dragonflight has a bit of this "MoP chill" going on already, but I'm sure the expansion will quickly escalate due to all the dragons and the potential that brings. For 12.0, I'm talking a brand new corner of the WoW universe (although still on Azeroth). New peoples, new kingdoms, new biomes. Like discovering America for the Europeans.

13.0 - Underground expansion, full of caves beneath Azeroth's surface. Crystals, Nerubians, machines, underground biomes, etc.

14.0 - ??? I guess at this point I could accept an expansion where we explore more lore about Elune or something, even if it takes us off-world. But I'd prefer something like a revamped Northrend or an all-new continent on Azeroth.

[Annihilas]

No more space travelling or cosmic expansions, please.

11.0 - World Revamp (Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms). Perhaps a few new islands previously missing, just to add something new.

12.0 - Vanilla/MoP style expansion in that we do something completely new and explore lore we haven't seen before. I'm thinking we travel to the other side of Azeroth and discover a new continent where no one has gone before. (Except for all those missing sailors.) I know Dragonflight has a bit of this "MoP chill" going on already, but I'm sure the expansion will quickly escalate due to all the dragons and the potential that brings. For 12.0, I'm talking a brand new corner of the WoW universe (although still on Azeroth). New peoples, new kingdoms, new biomes. Like discovering America for the Europeans.

13.0 - Underground expansion, full of caves beneath Azeroth's surface. Crystals, Nerubians, machines, underground biomes, etc.

14.0 - ??? I guess at this point I could accept an expansion where we explore more lore about Elune or something, even if it takes us off-world. But I'd prefer something like a revamped Northrend or an all-new continent on Azeroth.

Outland happened after Vanilla... So what's wrong with K'aresh?

[Makabreska]

No more space travelling or cosmic expansions, please.

11.0 - World Revamp (Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms). Perhaps a few new islands previously missing, just to add something new.

Ye, sure. Blizz already siad they will make a cosmic expansion sooner or later, and DF with it's traditional fantasy stuff is to let us rest between them.

12.0 - Vanilla/MoP style expansion in that we do something completely new and explore lore we haven't seen before. I'm thinking we travel to the other side of Azeroth and discover a new continent where no one has gone before. (Except for all those missing sailors.) I know Dragonflight has a bit of this "MoP chill" going on already, but I'm sure the expansion will quickly escalate due to all the dragons and the potential that brings. For 12.0, I'm talking a brand new corner of the WoW universe (although still on Azeroth). New peoples, new kingdoms, new biomes. Like discovering America for the Europeans.

As you said, DF is MoP 2.0 in many regards. Brand new corner of the Azeroth.

13.0 - Underground expansion, full of caves beneath Azeroth's surface. Crystals, Nerubians, machines, underground biomes, etc.

Hints tell us that 10.1 will be underground patch. Doubt they will do entire underground expansion.

14.0 - ??? I guess at this point I could accept an expansion where we explore more lore about Elune or something, even if it takes us off-world. But I'd prefer something like a revamped Northrend or an all-new continent on Azeroth.

It is pretty much guaranteed we will see cosmic motifs much sooner than 14.0. Maybe not in 11.00 but in 12.00 sure.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Ye, sure.

It's comiiiiiiing, don't you see?