Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

So I'm assuming two weeks until pre-patch hits the ptr
Assuming it goes live on the leaked date that means tons of fun with the new talents
I'm guessing the legendaries get deactivated so we will have the usual whine about having less than we do now ignoring the fact you can have the entirety of a talent row

I am curious about how far our gear will be able to get us through the leveling process and I'm assuming prepatch will give atleast 240 so I gotta hurry and level my priest for the AR heritage

There's also some certainty that we will see legendaries return from wrathion or his brother with only flavor differences

I doubt Legendaries will be deactivated. Seems more likely they will change them to have a max level, and also changed to generic "increase damage by X%" effects where applicable.
You will also seemingly keep your covenant abilities going by how Dracthyr got some generic ones. They even get a Unity effect, so we know that at least that one will still work.

[Aucald]

The writers of Blizzard spoke through Saurfang and they stated that the Horde can never take Stormwind.

You're missing the essence of Saurfang and Sylvanas' conversation in Before the Storm. The Horde couldn't take Stormwind in a direct assault if the Horde attacked Stormwind apropos of nothing, yes. But the original plan was to siege and hold Teldrassil for ransom, basically using it as a stalking horse to blunt Stormwind's ability to attack - and after bleeding the Alliance out for a time, Saurfang agreed that even Stormwind could be taken and held by the Horde. Obviously, the War of Thorns didn't play out in the manner Saurfang expected it to, as Sylvanas had ulterior motives given her relationship with the Jailer, but Saurfang admitted that the original strategy was sound enough to earn his backing.

[huth]

I doubt Legendaries will be deactivated. Seems more likely they will change them to have a max level, and also changed to generic "increase damage by X%" effects where applicable.
You will also seemingly keep your covenant abilities going by how Dracthyr got some generic ones. They even get a Unity effect, so we know that at least that one will still work.

We've known that Covenant stuff is not going away for months already. It'll be like the Heart of Azeroth (i.e. not working in the new zones). I've yet to see any explanation why that doesn't work on the Dragon Isles, though. We're back to Azeroth, her Heart should be powered again.

[Varodoc]

You're missing the essence of Saurfang and Sylvanas' conversation in Before the Storm. The Horde couldn't take Stormwind in a direct assault if the Horde attacked Stormwind apropos of nothing, yes. But the original plan was to siege and hold Teldrassil for ransom, basically using it as a stalking horse to blunt Stormwind's ability to attack - and after bleeding the Alliance out for a time, Saurfang agreed that even Stormwind could be taken and held by the Horde. Obviously, the War of Thorns didn't play out in the manner Saurfang expected it to, as Sylvanas had ulterior motives given her relationship with the Jailer, but Saurfang admitted that the original strategy was sound enough to earn his backing.

No, their original plan was to cause the Alliance to break apart and you omitted that from your post.

Stormwind can only be taken if it's one isolated kingdom against an entire faction, just like it was in the First War. Since the Alliance will never fall apart, Stormwind is not falling to any army.

[Sondrelk]

We've known that Covenant stuff is not going away for months already. It'll be like the Heart of Azeroth (i.e. not working in the new zones). I've yet to see any explanation why that doesn't work on the Dragon Isles, though. We're back to Azeroth, her Heart should be powered again.

I wouldnt be surprised if it did work, just with a few tweaks on the abilities that would still be useful this far ahead. I mean sure, having the extra butt onto press is nice and all, but I doubt a 1k crit every minute outweighs one fiftieth of the stats.

[Aucald]

No, their original plan was to cause the Alliance to break apart and you omitted that from your post.

Stormwind can only be taken if it's one isolated kingdom against an entire faction, just like it was in the First War. Since the Alliance will never fall apart, Stormwind is not falling to any army.

No, taking and holding Teldrassil wouldn't make the Alliance "break apart" in any meaningful fashion. It would simply make it more difficult for the Alliance to wield their full might due to the fear of Teldrassil paying for each reprisal, which allows an aggressor force to slowly but surely whittle away at their armies until eventually, they lack the willpower or conviction to oppose their enemy. It's a pretty tried and true tactic from the modern era of warfare.

Stormwind is neither impregnable nor invincible, neither is Orgrimmar for that matter. The Horde might be able to sack Stormwind with the appropriate show of arms, but what the Alliance really does is prevent them from holding it in a meaningful fashion since the rest of the Alliance nations would likely come to their aid with an overwhelming show of force. But if the Horde could hold Teldrassil hostage, and exact a bloody toll from the Kaldorei for every Alliance reprisal, it would ultimately put a massive damper on Alliance counters, letting the Horde move and strike with relative impunity unless the Alliance gave up on safeguarding one of their client nations. And, if they did that, it would endanger the unity that makes the Alliance so formidable to begin with.

[Marlamin]

Space exploration expansion?

Legion, which that model is from, could be called that to a very minor extent, so sure.

[Merryck]

Legion, which that model is from, could be called that to a very minor extent, so sure.

We went to around 10 different worlds (Argus, 6 invasion points, Elunaria, Mardum, Dreadscar rift technically?), so yeah definitely the space exploration expansion.

[huth]

I wouldnt be surprised if it did work, just with a few tweaks on the abilities that would still be useful this far ahead. I mean sure, having the extra butt onto press is nice and all, but I doubt a 1k crit every minute outweighs one fiftieth of the stats.

I don't think a few tweaks will do it for a cheat death or a chance to get your main CD for free.

[Aydinx2]

Excitement for DF is literally 0 now that they keep updating Hunters and we get 0 news about Priests.
Priests are gonna need to get the most insane changes ever for me to care again about the game.

[Varodoc]

No, taking and holding Teldrassil wouldn't make the Alliance "break apart" in any meaningful fashion. It would simply make it more difficult for the Alliance to wield their full might due to the fear of Teldrassil paying for each reprisal, which allows an aggressor force to slowly but surely whittle away at their armies until eventually, they lack the willpower or conviction to oppose their enemy. It's a pretty tried and true tactic from the modern era of warfare.

Stormwind is neither impregnable nor invincible, neither is Orgrimmar for that matter. The Horde might be able to sack Stormwind with the appropriate show of arms, but what the Alliance really does is prevent them from holding it in a meaningful fashion since the rest of the Alliance nations would likely come to their aid with an overwhelming show of force. But if the Horde could hold Teldrassil hostage, and exact a bloody toll from the Kaldorei for every Alliance reprisal, it would ultimately put a massive damper on Alliance counters, letting the Horde move and strike with relative impunity unless the Alliance gave up on safeguarding one of their client nations. And, if they did that, it would endanger the unity that makes the Alliance so formidable to begin with.

A Good War proves you wrong.

Sylvanas’s eyes disappeared beneath the edge of her hood. “They lost their nation years ago. The Gilneans will be furious if the Alliance acts to help the kaldorei first,” she said. “The boy in Stormwind will have a political crisis on his hands. He is smart, but he is not experienced. What happens when Genn Greymane, Malfurion Stormrage, and Tyrande Whisperwind all demand differing actions? He is not a high king like his father. The respect the others give him is a courtesy, not an obligation. Anduin Wrynn will rapidly become a leader who cannot act. If the Alliance will not march as one, each nation will act in its own interest. Each army will return home to protect their lands from us.”

“And that is how you defeat Stormwind.” Saurfang was in awe. It was brilliant. Destroying the Alliance wouldn’t take a thousand victories. It would take one. With a single strategic push, the pressure on the Alliance would cripple them for years, just as long as they could not conjure any miracles on the battlefield. “You destroy the Alliance from within. Their military might counts for nothing if their members stand alone. Then we strike peace with the individual nations and carve them away from the Alliance, piece by piece.”

Why did you not know this, Aucald? Did you not read A Good War? Why did you no read it?

Regardless, as the above passage states, their strategy to defeat Stormwind was to cause the Alliance to fall apart from within and then pick off each individual kingdom, leaving Stormwind isolated and alone.

[Ferlion]

A Good War proves you wrong.



Why did you not know this, Aucald? Did you not read A Good War? Why did you no read it?

Regardless, as the above passage states, their strategy to defeat Stormwind was to cause the Alliance to fall apart from within and then pick off each individual kingdom, leaving Stormwind isolated and alone.

A Good War doesn't prove him wrong. This was made clear in Elegy.

That may have been Sylvanas plan, but Genn basically scoffs at the idea of not helping Tyrande because the Night Elves saved them.

[Sondrelk]

I don't think a few tweaks will do it for a cheat death or a chance to get your main CD for free.

The cooldown reduction one is definitely the one outlier, but I feel like that could be fixed by simply nerfing that one specifically. They have the ability to make gear effects with maximum level brackets, so I don't see why this couldnt be the case for the HoA.

[Aucald]

A Good War proves you wrong.

As I said before, the War of Thorns did not go as planned due to Sylvanas' ulterior goals.

Why did you not know this, Aucald? Did you not read A Good War? Why did you no read it?

Regardless, as the above passage states, their strategy to defeat Stormwind was to cause the Alliance to fall apart from within and then pick off each individual kingdom, leaving Stormwind isolated and alone.

That is basically what I was talking about, yes. Blunting the Alliance's ability to act, letting the Horde move with relative impunity and slowly bleed it out over time. But again, it's less about making the Alliance "fall apart" and more about preventing it from moving as one. If the Alliance couldn't strike as one without bringing harm to one of its protectorates and thus giving the appearance of either inaction or negligence, it would fracture them. And even if they didn't fracture, they still couldn't bring their full might to bear. Either way, according to Sylvanas and Saurfang's original strategy, the goal was a Horde victory through attrition. Whether weakened in number or weakened in might, a Stormwind handicapped wouldn't stand.

As per A Good War with relevant emphasis:

“How would that happen? If we launch a sneak attack on the night elves’ home, the entire Alliance will seek vengeance.”

“At first, yes. They will be furious, united against our aggression,” she said. “But what will the night elves want more than anything? They will demand that the Alliance help retake their conquered home.”

But the Alliance will not have the strength, not in Kalimdor, not with their fleets.

Again. She had done it again. She had opened his mind to a new possibility, and the world shifted under his feet. The strategic implications spun out before him like the Maelstrom. “It will take years before they can even consider retaking Darnassus.”

“You understand, High Overlord,” Sylvanas said. “Think it through. What happens next?”

“They might try to conquer the Undercity . . . but Darnassus becomes our hostage against that. The night elves will not allow your city to fall if they fear it means you will destroy theirs. The same goes for a strike against Silvermoon.” Saurfang’s thoughts raced. She’s right. This could work. (Source)

Holding Teldrassil prevents the Alliance from moving forward unilaterally against the Horde, and they lack the naval power to directly take the fight to Teldrassil with the Horde in consolidated control of Kalimdor. Additionally, Sylvanas believes that if Anduin did indeed plan a strike on Kalimdor despite the Alliance's diminished navies, the Gilneans would be furious at Anduin's inaction in regard to their taken lands - but we know Sylvanas is wrong about that.

[huth]

As I said before, the War of Thorns did not go as planned due to Sylvanas' ulterior goals.



That is basically what I was talking about, yes. Blunting the Alliance's ability to act, letting the Horde move with relative impunity and slowly bleed it out over time. But again, it's less about making the Alliance "fall apart" and more about preventing it from moving as one. If the Alliance couldn't strike as one without bringing harm to one of its protectorates and thus giving the appearance of either inaction or negligence, it would fracture them. And even if they didn't fracture, they still couldn't bring their full might to bear. Either way, according to Sylvanas and Saurfang's original strategy, the goal was a Horde victory through attrition. Whether weakened in number or weakened in might, a Stormwind handicapped wouldn't stand.

At least, that's what they believed to be the case. We never found out if they're right since Sylvanas derailed the plan and the following war turned rather poorly for the Horde. Though given what we saw from the Void Elves and the Horde's inability to hold Darkshore, it might not actually have worked all that well.

[Aucald]

At least, that's what they believed to be the case. We never found out if they're right since Sylvanas derailed the plan and the following war turned rather poorly for the Horde. Though given what we saw from the Void Elves and the Horde's inability to hold Darkshore, it might not actually have worked all that well.

No, and it's an open question as to whether Sylvanas actually believed it or simply used that chain or logic to get Saurfang's buy-in for her true goal - a whole lot of death in a minimal timeframe, feeding the Jailer by sending everyone involved directly to the Maw. Sylvanas and Saurfang were also ultimately wrong about Greymane and Anduin, as well; and they didn't know about the Night Warrior to factor into their calculus, either.

[Varodoc]

As I said before, the War of Thorns did not go as planned due to Sylvanas' ulterior goals.



That is basically what I was talking about, yes. Blunting the Alliance's ability to act, letting the Horde move with relative impunity and slowly bleed it out over time. But again, it's less about making the Alliance "fall apart" and more about preventing it from moving as one. If the Alliance couldn't strike as one without bringing harm to one of its protectorates and thus giving the appearance of either inaction or negligence, it would fracture them. And even if they didn't fracture, they still couldn't bring their full might to bear. Either way, according to Sylvanas and Saurfang's original strategy, the goal was a Horde victory through attrition. Whether weakened in number or weakened in might, a Stormwind handicapped wouldn't stand.

As per A Good War with relevant emphasis:

“How would that happen? If we launch a sneak attack on the night elves’ home, the entire Alliance will seek vengeance.”

“At first, yes. They will be furious, united against our aggression,” she said. “But what will the night elves want more than anything? They will demand that the Alliance help retake their conquered home.”

But the Alliance will not have the strength, not in Kalimdor, not with their fleets.

Again. She had done it again. She had opened his mind to a new possibility, and the world shifted under his feet. The strategic implications spun out before him like the Maelstrom. “It will take years before they can even consider retaking Darnassus.”

“You understand, High Overlord,” Sylvanas said. “Think it through. What happens next?”

“They might try to conquer the Undercity . . . but Darnassus becomes our hostage against that. The night elves will not allow your city to fall if they fear it means you will destroy theirs. The same goes for a strike against Silvermoon.” Saurfang’s thoughts raced. She’s right. This could work. (Source)

Holding Teldrassil prevents the Alliance from moving forward unilaterally against the Horde, and they lack the naval power to directly take the fight to Teldrassil with the Horde in consolidated control of Kalimdor. Additionally, Sylvanas believes that if Anduin did indeed plan a strike on Kalimdor despite the Alliance's diminished navies, the Gilneans would be furious at Anduin's inaction in regard to their taken lands - but we know Sylvanas is wrong about that.

Literally what I'm saying.

If the Alliance is united, then Night elves, Worgen, and the other races would come to the defense of Stormwind.

If the Alliance falls apart, then no one would come to the defense of Stormwind. Just like during the First War, when the kingdom was isolated and alone.

So, as I have been saying since morning (EU timezone), Stormwind cannot be taken if it is defended by a united Alliance, like the one that appears in-game. We have yet to see the Aliance fall apart, like the Horde did, and thus, as it stands now, Stormwind cannot fall.

I never denied that the Kingdom of Stormwind individually, as a single nation would likely fall to a Horde invasion. But, in WoW, we see that the Kingdom of Stormwind is bolstered by an entire Alliance of like-minded races, ensuring its protection.

[Nymrohd]

No, and it's an open question as to whether Sylvanas actually believed it or simply used that chain or logic to get Saurfang's buy-in for her true goal - a whole lot of death in a minimal timeframe, feeding the Jailer by sending everyone involved directly to the Maw. Sylvanas and Saurfang were also ultimately wrong about Greymane and Anduin, as well; and they didn't know about the Night Warrior to factor into their calculus, either.

Heck perhaps her original plan DID involve an attack on Stormwind simply because its probably meant to be the densest population center in Warcraft (and thus getting a war there could score a lot of deaths for her).

[Raetary]

Excitement for DF is literally 0 now that they keep updating Hunters and we get 0 news about Priests.
Priests are gonna need to get the most insane changes ever for me to care again about the game.

The dev responsible for both priests and druid apparently left the company, so we are stuck with what we got rn.

i worry about holy, the spec finally got to shine this expansion and now we are probably stuck again healing at snails pace like before.

[Nymrohd]

The dev responsible for both priests and druid apparently left the company, so we are stuck with what we got rn.

i worry about holy, the spec finally got to shine this expansion and now we are probably stuck again healing at snails pace like before.

I do want to see how much dps I can do with the current tree though. Like, there is a full on Holy dps spec there.