1. #65881
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Not really what you were saying before, no.
    Yes, it's what I said.

    What you wrote after is just a long and convoluted version of "Stormwind with the full Alliance backing can't be taken so Sylvanas needed to make the Alliance fall first".

    All of the above is predicated on the state of both the Alliance and Horde post-Legion, though; with both their navies in tatters and unable to coordinate a swift movement of troops should the need arise. This context has changed post-BfA and now post-Shadowlands, and with the time-skip added to Dragonflight we have no real way of knowing what Stormwind or Ogrimmar's relative strength is now that they've had time to restock and repair their navies and armies. The calculus of Sylvanas' Before the Storm stratagem is entirely different now, and even though the Horde and Alliance are currently in a state of armistice, we don't know which superpower has military superiority, or if they remain at a rough statement and detente.
    The Horde will never be the faction with the advantage since they are the "underdog" faction. It was like that in Vanilla, it was like that in post-MoP, and it will be like that again in the future.

    That's why the Horde always resorts to backstabbing the Alliance and nuking them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    It is you who did not read it.

    That is what the PLAN was
    but that is not what would happen, because sylvanas does not understand the alliance, she saw something like that as something that would fracture the alliance, when really it strengthened it.

    Sylvanas's plan was to take teldrassil and the alliance would fracture, especially since the gilneans would obviously still wish to focus on taking back gilneas.

    but aucald is right, that is not what happened, the gilneans promised to help the night elves reclaim their land, and this strengthened them.
    The plan was not reality
    I don't know what your post has anything to do with what I said. I never said Sylvanas' plan worked.

  2. #65882
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well druids are not getting changes though. At least not in the alpha were they could be tested.
    They are not getting changes that we know of. Could be that the dev would prefer to make one big lump of changes instead of several smaller iterations.

    It would almost certainly be the wring decision, but hey. Would at least make sense if the dev was on vacation.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #65883
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    So again, why do we think the dev left? Just because of no updates?

    Because now we got this:
    It's just a rumor, hence why i said 'apparently' in my original post.

    Been plastered all over the forums and twitter, and given the silence isn't exactly that far-fetched.

    Either way, whatever is going on it resulted in no class updates for a month now.
    Which is an issue.
    Last edited by Raetary; 2022-08-22 at 08:42 AM.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  4. #65884
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    It's just a rumor, hence why i said 'apparently' in my original post.

    Been plastered all over the forums and twitter, and given the silence isn't exactly that far-fetched.

    Either way, whatever is going on it resulted in no class updates for a month now.
    Which is an issue.
    I mean, we didn't get DH talents like, at all. Does it mean dev is MIA there? And they did post 3-4 weeks ago that they are working on priest, and asked us to be patience.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  5. #65885
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I mean, we didn't get DH talents like, at all. Does it mean dev is MIA there? And they did post 3-4 weeks ago that they are working on priest, and asked us to be patience.
    I just don't think Blizzard devs have the right to expect much good will just yet.

  6. #65886
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I mean, we didn't get DH talents like, at all. Does it mean dev is MIA there? And they did post 3-4 weeks ago that they are working on priest, and asked us to be patience.
    The "real" source is that someone or other, a streamer I think, met with some devs who mentioned the Druid (also Priest I believe) developer was not in the office.

    Now obviously, not at all confirmed, but it does line up. And could possibly also explain the lack of DH trees as we don't know who that developer is as of yet.
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  7. #65887
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I just don't think Blizzard devs have the right to expect much good will just yet.
    And I don't think they should pay much attention to those saying "lol dev left, priests are fucked". Good will or not, we have no choice but to wait. And maybe not spread rumours.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-08-22 at 08:59 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  8. #65888
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The "real" source is that someone or other, a streamer I think, met with some devs who mentioned the Druid (also Priest I believe) developer was not in the office.

    Now obviously, not at all confirmed, but it does line up. And could possibly also explain the lack of DH trees as we don't know who that developer is as of yet.
    Max from Liquid who has contact with Blizzard is the one who mentioned the priest+druid dev stuff. We also know who the DH guy is from Max it is the rogue dev.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    But if they read the terrain like I do instead of going off of personal desires then they'd understand and wouldn't get their jimmies rustled. Again, I have no intention of maining a tinker, I just know with 100% certainty that they're wow's next playable class. It's so God damn obvious all things considered.

    If that triggers people then oh well.

  9. #65889
    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    Max from Liquid who has contact with Blizzard is the one who mentioned the priest+druid dev stuff. We also know who the DH guy is from Max it is the rogue dev.
    The rogue dev being responsible for DH is interesting. Rogues seem to be getting a lot of attention on Discord, so that does make me wonder why the DH tree is so late. Guess they might not have enough "stuff" to really make a proper tree yet.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #65890
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The rogue dev being responsible for DH is interesting. Rogues seem to be getting a lot of attention on Discord, so that does make me wonder why the DH tree is so late. Guess they might not have enough "stuff" to really make a proper tree yet.
    Where on discord is rogue stuff?

  11. #65891
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The "proof" is one streamer supposedly meeting some of the devs and having learned that the Druid dev was not in the office for whatever reason. What exactly that meant is entirely up in the air though. Could have been the dev was fired, sick, or even just a regular vacation. It's really impossible to say. Not to mention that all the devs work differently anyways. Just because Hunter gets weekly updates doesnt mean the other classes are not listening to feedback and getting changes.
    Blizzard's history makes this very worrying, we used to say this and go without any changes for full expansions, that's not acceptable.

  12. #65892
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The rogue dev being responsible for DH is interesting. Rogues seem to be getting a lot of attention on Discord, so that does make me wonder why the DH tree is so late. Guess they might not have enough "stuff" to really make a proper tree yet.
    I think it might also be for testing purposes. They paced the release so each patch would add a class or two so as to consolidate feedback? Could be DH is ready and we'll just see it this week.

    What I find weird is that they cannot afford to have a dev for each class and instead the same dev might be working on multiple classes. They have expanded the team so much, I kind of expected each class to have someone in charge of it? Unless there are a few management devs who handles multiple others working on 2-3 classes but that seems wasteful?

  13. #65893
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think it might also be for testing purposes. They paced the release so each patch would add a class or two so as to consolidate feedback? Could be DH is ready and we'll just see it this week.

    What I find weird is that they cannot afford to have a dev for each class and instead the same dev might be working on multiple classes. They have expanded the team so much, I kind of expected each class to have someone in charge of it? Unless there are a few management devs who handles multiple others working on 2-3 classes but that seems wasteful?
    Maybe there is no need to have a one dev, one clss approach? Let's not forget these people are not doing classes all by themself. Team extension could mean that they got more help now with class design, but still supervise more than one.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-08-22 at 09:55 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  14. #65894
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Maybe there is no need to have a one dev, one clss approach? Let's not forget these people are not doing classes all by themself. Team extension could mean that they got more help now with class design, but still supervise more than one.
    Whatever works best I suppose. I do wonder what the division of labour was at similar points when massive class reworks happened like with MoP and Legion.

  15. #65895
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think it might also be for testing purposes. They paced the release so each patch would add a class or two so as to consolidate feedback? Could be DH is ready and we'll just see it this week.

    What I find weird is that they cannot afford to have a dev for each class and instead the same dev might be working on multiple classes. They have expanded the team so much, I kind of expected each class to have someone in charge of it? Unless there are a few management devs who handles multiple others working on 2-3 classes but that seems wasteful?
    Presumably there is one person either leading a team of several classes, or just in charge of feedback.
    Yes it's probably better to have it even more specific with one person per class, but that might also be a tad wasteful if some classes are close to perfect while others are further away. In that case it would be better to have focus on to or three classes each, so you always have something to do without reshuffling the teams around.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  16. #65896
    Quote Originally Posted by DrIvoRobotnik View Post
    Hey, I don't mean this as a dig, but are people excited for this expansion? Everyone from forums and streamers seem to be pretty ho-hum whether it's negative or positive. I keep looking around for the hype or rage, but the largest controversy I've seen is something about Ret pallys upset about losing a few inches on their arms and them making the Soar racial useless.
    Not sure which ones you follow, but everything I've seen and heard sounds positive. Overwhelmingly even.

    The Dragon Isles seems like a great place, large, beautiful and immersive. Dracthyr seems really popular ever since they altered the size of its body. Professions, HUD and Dragonriding all seems very popular.

    Only potentially negative stuff I've heard is that people are still mixed on Evoker (too early to tell?) and obviously not every spec feels great yet.

  17. #65897
    Quote Originally Posted by DrIvoRobotnik View Post
    Hey, I don't mean this as a dig, but are people excited for this expansion? Everyone from forums and streamers seem to be pretty ho-hum whether it's negative or positive. I keep looking around for the hype or rage, but the largest controversy I've seen is something about Ret pallys upset about losing a few inches on their arms and them making the Soar racial useless.
    I'm far more excited at this point in time than I was for Shadowlands.

  18. #65898
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Yes, it's what I said.

    What you wrote after is just a long and convoluted version of "Stormwind with the full Alliance backing can't be taken so Sylvanas needed to make the Alliance fall first".
    If by "long and convoluted" you mean accurate and with the appropriate attention to detail, then yes. Sylvanas' strategy outlined in A Good War wouldn't necessarily make the Alliance fall, it would simply prevent it from functioning correctly and was reliant on the status quo post-Legion to function. Those are significant details that shouldn't be omitted, otherwise, it gives the wrong impression of both the Horde's and the Alliance's respective military might.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The Horde will never be the faction with the advantage since they are the "underdog" faction. It was like that in Vanilla, it was like that in post-MoP, and it will be like that again in the future.

    That's why the Horde always resorts to backstabbing the Alliance and nuking them.
    That's an appeal to tradition fallacy - just because the Horde has always been the underdog doesn't require or even imply that it will remain so. The same is true of the Alliance being a passive entity that only responds to attacks and is seldom proactive.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  19. #65899
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That's an appeal to tradition fallacy
    I don't necessarily disagree... but is this truly a fallacy with Blizzard? They do tend to make quite a few decisions backed by tradition alone.

  20. #65900
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree... but is this truly a fallacy with Blizzard? They do tend to make quite a few decisions backed by tradition alone.
    I think it would be fine to crouch such a statement in likelihood - to say it's likely the Horde will always be the underdog, but I'd say it's wrongheaded to telescope that into the assumption it will always be the case and assume superiority due to it. Doubly so in light that the Horde has recently radically restructured itself in light of the Fourth War, and we now have a lengthy time-skip in which the status quo of the Horde could've been quite altered. We also assumed the Horde would be led by an autocrat in the form of a Warchief, as it has always been, but that too didn't end up being the case, either.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

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