1. #66061
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Don't forget that drought problem was half of expansion, between 9.0 and release of 9.1.5. After that we returned to Legion schedule - with improvements (Season 4 instead of longer Sepulcher).

    People often mock Covid excuse, but in reality everything in Shadowlands was delayed ~6 months (1 month 9.0, ~2.5 month for 9.1, ~2.5 month for 9.2) just like FF14 (where devs were smarter and moved whole launch further).
    Yeah, honestly the only big problems Shadowlands had was the droughts aswell as the initial design of the Covenants. As soon as we got the ripcord (which lines up with the rumoured dev meeting and course change within the team) the game went from "WoD level of bad" to "End of Legion level of good".

    I would rate it with 9/10 now.

    Legion = MoP > WotLK = Shadowlands > WoD = TBC > BfA

    Honestly, BfA can die in flames lol.

  2. #66062
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Yeah, honestly the only big problems Shadowlands had was the droughts aswell as the initial design of the Covenants. As soon as we got the ripcord (which lines up with the rumoured dev meeting and course change within the team) the game went from "WoD level of bad" to "End of Legion level of good".
    I didn't have problem with systems initially, but now I consider it as big issue as well. We get rid of pointless grind, but there is simply too much choices and different stuff to keep eye on:

    1) Do I have correct spec for this fight?
    2) Talents.
    3) Covenant.
    4) Soulbind.
    5) Right conduits.
    6) Right consumables.
    7) Legendary.
    8) Stats on gear

    Simply too many things you must track (especially after 9.1.5 where changing everything is very easy). In DF it will be reduced to spec, talents, gear and consumables.

  3. #66063
    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    [video=youtube;NPnh_azU7Gw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPnh_azU7Gw[video]

    We need some flying dragons !
    Yes, and it needs to have a speaker breaking screech.

  4. #66064
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Yes, and it needs to have a speaker breaking screech.
    If the loading screen doesn't cause a jump scare, what's the point!

  5. #66065
    Mechagnome Berkilak's Avatar
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    Need the alert that you've fallen asleep in your chair.

  6. #66066
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Yes! The blue crafted/"pvp" sets are for open world invasions!! So awesoooome <3

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/primali...gear-in-328420

  7. #66067
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Yes! The blue crafted/"pvp" sets are for open world invasions!! So awesoooome <3

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/primali...gear-in-328420
    20 weeks to get a full set of sub-LFR gear? I don't understand why Blizz has to be so stingy with handing out gear to people. Visions gave mythic level gear (albeit once a week). That should be the standard for non-group content.

  8. #66068
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    20 weeks to get a full set of sub-LFR gear? I don't understand why Blizz has to be so stingy with handing out gear to people. Visions gave mythic level gear (albeit once a week). That should be the standard for non-group content.
    Visions was also end of expansion catch-up. The option is there for casual players if they want to pursue it.

  9. #66069
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    We're doing SL post-mortem reviews right?

    Overall, pretty meh expansion, around cata level. 6/10 all in all.


    Gameplay : 6/10.
    DPS still suffer from Legion-era bland rotations, though its enjoyable at times. Healer and Tanks are fun. Pvp started way too bursty and dumb with covenants but as usual it tapered off near final patches and became reasonable with trinket stamina buffs.
    As for specific niches of the game:

    Mythic+: 7/10.
    Pretty good as usual, seasonals are interesting (though s1 was punishing as fuck and s4 and s2 a bit bland, s3 was nice though). Dungeons alright and the experiemental s4 is a nice idea, though i wish they'd took everbloom rather than the boring no mechanic iron horde dungeons.

    Raids: 6/10
    The raids aren't awful, but pretty bland after BFA's outstanding performances. Aside from maybe Hauldron no boss approaches the epicness and intensity of stuff like BFA Jaina, Mekkatorque, G'huun (stupid orbs aside) and that awesome naga 2-boss raid. Even if mechanics are sometimes alright, they lack the visual awesomeness and story-telling through a fight that the above fights had. Jailer mechanics feel like it could have been any other boss.

    Grinds and gearing : 1/10
    The worst aspect by far. Its 2022 and blizz still had to wait entire patches to make covenants switchable. Pvp gearing was also an annoying mess until recently, though now its in a decent place (still a pet peeve that conquest is gated on normal seasons and mythic raiding/m+ isn't though).
    Targettable legendaries were alright, but mandatory torghast was horeshit and the huge gold cost for leggos was frankly unacceptable. Final patches fixed it as usual with cosmic flux and reduced mats but it's still inexcusable that it took this long. Much rejoicing for DF simply letting us pick our powers with talents and the occasional set pieces.

    Solo Outdoors : 2/10.
    The maw was an interesting experiment, but they focused too much on making it unpleasant and too little on giving you reasons to be excited to be there. No catchup/gradual gear goals for alts or mains. No mounting (though i could somewhat accept this as you could unlock transport shortcuts over time). I'm cool with no flying there.

    But worse of all, this expac had the least reason to engage with not-rare elites since, hell, any expac. Even BFA had those n'zoth invasions with elites that gave % for the weekly quest. You were encouraged to fight the world if you wanted to. In SL we had nothing like the region-wide Timeless Isle currency, so elites just sit there, pointless except the ocasional mount farmer in zereth mortis. That place is particularly at fault for relegating them to a few tiny subzones.
    When no exciting combat happens in outdoors, it becomes so boring it doesn't feel worth engaging in, and that's loosing a huge portion of what once was a very fun part of wow. All those endless pocopoc systems and buffs would be worth it if i actually had a good reason to be there and fight beside flux grinding rares.

    Also as a side note, world quests became needlessly involved and annoying. BFA wasn't the best but atleast you had those "just kill alot for 100% completion" wqs and you could target elites for bigger %.


    Story : 2/10
    Story's one of the most boring, with almost zero interesting world building in my opinion, a very shallow investigation into the concept of death, Sylvanas ending up being a colossal fool (after BFA made me at least curious why she decided to trust some mysterious evil guy and what was her end goal).

    Final raid/story arc has so many weird issues. Why is Azeroth's world soul suddenly in the Sepulcher? Why was the jailer so evil he wanted to remake universe in his image? why couldn't he just band together with his fellow eternals? They glossed over this and whats left is this super shallow generic "evil guy wants universal domination" with no reason to care.

    Tyrande story arc felt pointless and not satisfying. It's maybe more moral or level headed to not seek vengeance, but it felt bland. Her whole powerup and anger achieved almost nothing, and elune might as well have cut to the chase and just given them the ardenweald sigil.
    There's also no interesting foreshadowing/reveals beside Argus being the cause of arbiter nuke. Another "some outer threat made jailer/sargeras mad so they had to betray the good guys" hint, which is getting kinda old. No relatable chars, and too much focus on soap opera crew instead of an interesting universe.

    Nothing interesting was hinted or gradually revealed like Yogg Saron's/C'thun's mysterious and threatening presence in northrend, the Mogu's titanforged history being slowly unveiled, the Sha's connection to old gods etc. It felt like every patch was just a tiny gated "jailer will now attack x zone", but you barely learned anything about his motivations or personality. Probably wow's worst endboss and expansion villain. That's not to mention stupidity like the Forsworn trusting a universal genocider just because he was the previous arbiter, or whatever reason it is that made them think its smart to betray their whole order. Just writing about it irks me.

    Overall, a pretty bad modern expansion, around same bullshit grind level as BFA and early Legion, around similarly decent final patches that came too late. Pvp gearing early on around same stupidity as BFA, better in final patches, much worse then legion's templates. A general disappointment that i'm happy to see gone.


    Dungeons were pretty fun except for maldraxxus
    The story of each zone by itself was nice but felt disjointed
    The restrictions made systems less enjoyable but the covenants were a good idea that just got abandoned and I would have loved to see the sanctum upgrades added to along with more soulbinds like
    Uther
    Draka
    Ysera
    Renethal
    Imagine since we are going toe to toe with the Jailer maybe we should be soulbound to the other eternal ones to just give the idea that he's a threat maybe??

    5/10
    The content was good but the story and the systems put a bad taste in my mouth

  10. #66070
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    20 weeks to get a full set of sub-LFR gear? I don't understand why Blizz has to be so stingy with handing out gear to people. Visions gave mythic level gear (albeit once a week). That should be the standard for non-group content.
    Visions also scaled in difficulty and were time locked and were not entirely free gear.

    Even on classes that excelled at them you needed the lionshare of the upgrades.

  11. #66071
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    20 weeks to get a full set of sub-LFR gear? I don't understand why Blizz has to be so stingy with handing out gear to people. Visions gave mythic level gear (albeit once a week). That should be the standard for non-group content.
    This seems like gear entirely meant to be collected for transmog. And visions were instanced and actually challenging.

  12. #66072
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    20 weeks to get a full set of sub-LFR gear? I don't understand why Blizz has to be so stingy with handing out gear to people. Visions gave mythic level gear (albeit once a week). That should be the standard for non-group content.
    Standard for a non-group content should be to give you best gear? Ye, no. Like others said, Visions were a final tier activity with restrictions and difficulty. You will not and should not get BiS gear from simple farming DR invasions right at the start of the expac.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-08-19 at 10:28 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  13. #66073
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    20 weeks to get a full set of sub-LFR gear? I don't understand why Blizz has to be so stingy with handing out gear to people. Visions gave mythic level gear (albeit once a week). That should be the standard for non-group content.
    Rep "renown" is Normal Raid ilvl, so there's that.

  14. #66074
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    20 weeks to get a full set of sub-LFR gear? I don't understand why Blizz has to be so stingy with handing out gear to people. Visions gave mythic level gear (albeit once a week). That should be the standard for non-group content.
    Who cares about stats? If you want good gear, do m+, or raid, or pvp - you know, the content where you actually need the gear to clear said content. Otherwise gear has no worth anyways as it resets every 5-7 months. Transmog stays forever though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    (Also, open world content scales with ilvl anyways so no, you don't need mythic gear for that haha)

  15. #66075
    I'm fine with the ilvl staying the same. The point is that, 20 weeks for ONE armor set is bananas. And the ilvl aspect is pointless since it will be rendered useless as soon as you get it for most people. These sets aren't cool enough to stretch this content out that long, and many will want them on all the armor classes, so that's doing them at least 16 times a week.
    Last edited by infinitemeridian; 2022-08-19 at 02:40 PM.

  16. #66076
    "Final raid/story arc has so many weird issues. Why is Azeroth's world soul suddenly in the Sepulcher? Why was the jailer so evil he wanted to remake universe in his image? why couldn't he just band together with his fellow eternals? They glossed over this and whats left is this super shallow generic "evil guy wants universal domination" with no reason to care."

    I can literally answer these questions easily.

    Zovaal connected Azeroth and its soul from ICC to Torghast using the Forge of Souls, and through Torghast, which is part of the Maw which is an extention of Zovaals will, and also likely through Zovaal using the Heart of Eternity to connect it all through, Torghast and ICCs soul siphoner went into the Heart of Eternity, where Zovaal will use the Heart of the Sepulcher to conquer the other Cosmic Realms and remake reality.

    Azeroths potential is apparently fucking huge, hence why he wanted her soul and no one elses.

    And Zovaal is likely "evil" because he was afraid of whatever tf that Seventh Power is, and realizes that the Cosmos, its design, the forces, the cycles that balance the forces out and "separates" them, is all for nothing in the end. It does seem like Zovaal, utilizing domination, took the "force the wills of others to "chain" the Cosmos under 1 rule route however, and that we decided to things differently instead.

    Also, as for why the other Lords can't enter: 1. Tf do you think they're gonna do? They'll likely get fucked, even with their powers basically rejuvenated, also they are empowered by their realm like with Zovaal, so who knows if that reach will extend to Zereth Mortis, and also...they...can't...enter there. :/ First Ones forbid them or some shit, idfk. Story is weird like that.

    Why should he care btw? In his eyes, the Cosmos and its blueprint is fucked already, and reality's flawed fundamentally as a result, so to him, other opinions mean nothing to a being of his power. To us, however, we see things from the view of mortals, and see a chance to unite things without fucking with the balance, or without fucking with the blueprint itself.

  17. #66077
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    "Final raid/story arc has so many weird issues. Why is Azeroth's world soul suddenly in the Sepulcher? Why was the jailer so evil he wanted to remake universe in his image? why couldn't he just band together with his fellow eternals? They glossed over this and whats left is this super shallow generic "evil guy wants universal domination" with no reason to care."

    I can literally answer these questions easily.

    Zovaal connected Azeroth and its soul from ICC to Torghast using the Forge of Souls, and through Torghast, which is part of the Maw which is an extention of Zovaals will, and also likely through Zovaal using the Heart of Eternity to connect it all through, Torghast and ICCs soul siphoner went into the Heart of Eternity, where Zovaal will use the Heart of the Sepulcher to conquer the other Cosmic Realms and remake reality.

    Azeroths potential is apparently fucking huge, hence why he wanted her soul and no one elses.

    And Zovaal is likely "evil" because he was afraid of whatever tf that Seventh Power is, and realizes that the Cosmos, its design, the forces, the cycles that balance the forces out and "separates" them, is all for nothing in the end. It does seem like Zovaal, utilizing domination, took the "force the wills of others to "chain" the Cosmos under 1 rule route however, and that we decided to things differently instead.

    Also, as for why the other Lords can't enter: 1. Tf do you think they're gonna do? They'll likely get fucked, even with their powers basically rejuvenated, also they are empowered by their realm like with Zovaal, so who knows if that reach will extend to Zereth Mortis, and also...they...can't...enter there. :/ First Ones forbid them or some shit, idfk. Story is weird like that.

    Why should he care btw? In his eyes, the Cosmos and its blueprint is fucked already, and reality's flawed fundamentally as a result, so to him, other opinions mean nothing to a being of his power. To us, however, we see things from the view of mortals, and see a chance to unite things without fucking with the balance, or without fucking with the blueprint itself.
    Also keep in mind Zovaal was the Arbiter of all mortal souls in the multiverse. He was literally programmed to think he would know best what to do with everyone else, so it makes sense that once he figured out what the seventh force was that he would think "the only way to deal with this is to unify the cosmos under my rule".

  18. #66078
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    This isn't terrible. This is an artistic vision. Not all art has to be photorealistic.
    It's still terrible

  19. #66079
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Also, as for why the other Lords can't enter: 1. Tf do you think they're gonna do? They'll likely get fucked, even with their powers basically rejuvenated, also they are empowered by their realm like with Zovaal, so who knows if that reach will extend to Zereth Mortis, and also...they...can't...enter there. :/ First Ones forbid them or some shit, idfk. Story is weird like that.
    Much simpler. Because they still follow the rules, and one of the rules is "don't enter Zereth Mortis under any circumstances". The very rule because of which they imprisoned Zovaal in the first place.

  20. #66080
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Much simpler. Because they still follow the rules, and one of the rules is "don't enter Zereth Mortis under any circumstances". The very rule because of which they imprisoned Zovaal in the first place.
    Soulbind to the maw walker
    I mean that would make sense but the system was abandoned

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Don't forget that drought problem was half of expansion, between 9.0 and release of 9.1.5. After that we returned to Legion schedule - with improvements (Season 4 instead of longer Sepulcher).

    People often mock Covid excuse, but in reality everything in Shadowlands was delayed ~6 months (1 month 9.0, ~2.5 month for 9.1, ~2.5 month for 9.2) just like FF14 (where devs were smarter and moved whole launch further).
    Careful
    If you dare suggest covid caused more than a month delay you'll be attacked by screaming monkeys and labeled a delusional shill

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