Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

Don't know about Paladins getting a battle rezz. They are already a healer that everybody wants to have and that has a lot of utility. What about Monks, maybe for once? The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid. Same goes for Evoker getting Heroism / Bloodlust, why? Evoker has already TONS of utility, they really don't need this.

Dragonflight launching end of November sounds plausible now and it's... okay? I like November releases, it feels more natural than the August expansion launches for Legion and BfA.

[Makabreska]

Don't know about Paladins getting a battle rezz. They are already a healer that everybody wants to have and that has a lot of utility. What about Monks, maybe for once? The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid. Same goes for Evoker getting Heroism / Bloodlust, why? Evoker has already TONS of utility, they really don't need this.

Dragonflight launching end of November sounds plausible now and it's... okay? I like November releases, it feels more natural than the August expansion launches for Legion and BfA.

Dude, why are you spouting such nonsense? Mystic Touch ALONE is the reason to bring monk. Monk so useless that WF Jailer had two of them, Sylvi one and Sire one.


In other news, cross faction guilds are officially confirmed to be in the works. And some people said it will never happen...

[Nyel]

Dude, why are you spouting such nonsense? Mystic Touch ALONE is the reason to bring monk.

Out of all healers, Mistweaver is usually considered the most replacable. The lack of mandatory utility offered by the class is one of the reasons, that's why giving them a battle rezz would make way more sense than handing it to Paladins which are and almost always have been one of the mandatory healing classes.

[Nymrohd]

Don't know about Paladins getting a battle rezz. They are already a healer that everybody wants to have and that has a lot of utility. What about Monks, maybe for once? The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid. Same goes for Evoker getting Heroism / Bloodlust, why? Evoker has already TONS of utility, they really don't need this.

Dragonflight launching end of November sounds plausible now and it's... okay? I like November releases, it feels more natural than the August expansion launches for Legion and BfA.

Monks have a unique buff only they can provide and some of the strongest utility spells in the game. Ring of Peace alone is reason enough for the monks to get nothing else, not to mention Mystic Touch.

[Nyel]

Monks have a unique buff only they can provide and some of the strongest utility spells in the game. Ring of Peace alone is reason enough for the monks to get nothing else, not to mention Mystic Touch.

Again, it's about Mistweaver. And Ring of Peace is very, very situational in raids and useful only on very few encounters. I'm not saying that MW is trash tier, but it's far from being one of the desired or mandatory healing specs.

[Nymrohd]

Again, it's about Mistweaver. And Ring of Peace is very, very situational in raids and useful only on very few encounters. I'm not saying that MW is trash tier, but it's far from being one of the desired or mandatory healing specs.

And CR would not affect it in raids where any number of people already bring it. It would affect it in dungeons were Mystic Touch props it up just as well, RoP is always useful for kiting as well. Meanwhile beyond the obvious reason (Paladins have the strongest thematic and historic ties to CR) all three paladin specs have generally been mediocre in M+ only propped up by some expansion-specific circumstance (Ashen Hallow in SL)

[Makabreska]

Again, it's about Mistweaver. And Ring of Peace is very, very situational in raids and useful only on very few encounters. I'm not saying that MW is trash tier, but it's far from being one of the desired or mandatory healing specs.

And again, you said MW monk is useless, brings nothing and is easily replaceable. Yet both Jailer and Rygelon had one in WF kill. On Rygelon, which is high healing intensive fight, they dropped to 4 healers. And one of them was MW. So, are they useless?

[Nyel]

And again, you said MW monk is useless, brings nothing and is easily replaceable. Yet both Jailer and Rygelon had one in WF kill. On Rygelon, which is high healing intensive fight, they dropped to 4 healers. And one of them was MW. So, are they useless?

The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid <- that's what I said

Mistweaver is easily replaceable, brings nothing special to the raid and they're not a mandatory healer (which I was referring to when I exaggerated "not mandatory" with the phrase mostly useless).

There are some healing specs that are mandatory and are present in basically each and every raid encounter. And then there are healing specs that are not. Mistweaver is one of the latter - and that's my point. But Nymrohd is right, a Monk BR wouldn't change this in a raid anyway.

[Nymrohd]

The only healers who have been mandatory was Disc Priest when the absorbs were out of line and Holy Paladin because of endurance and passive healing to the tank. The former does not happen as often, the latter is balanced by generally low throughput.

[Makabreska]

The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid <- that's what I said

Mistweaver is easily replaceable, brings nothing special to the raid and they're not a mandatory healer (which I was referring to when I exaggerated "not mandatory" with the phrase mostly useless).

There are some healing specs that are mandatory and are present in basically each and every raid encounter. And then there are healing specs that are not. Mistweaver is one of the latter - and that's my point. But Nymrohd is right, a Monk BR wouldn't change this in a raid anyway.

There is no such thing as a mandatory healer really, because it would mean there is a certain mechanic that only certain healer can handle. Throughput alone and general utility does not make spec mandatory, and this becomes more and more true the further you move away from World First race.

[Nymrohd]

There is no such thing as a mandatory healer really, because it would mean there is a certain mechanic that only certain healer can handle. Throughput alone and general utility does not make spec mandatory, and this becomes more and more true the further you move away from World First race.

There have been times when a discipline healer or more absolutely were mandatory and otherwise your healers very much had to outgear the raid. We are past that time thankfully but it did happen.

[Makabreska]

There have been times when a discipline healer or more absolutely were mandatory and otherwise your healers very much had to outgear the raid. We are past that time thankfully but it did happen.

Ye, sure. Like shield spam on LK. But, as said, these are old times.

[Kiivar86]

I think it's part of the original plot were Illidan was supposed to be insane and likely created an illusion of Azeroth to stare at.

If Azeroth was anywhere close to Draenor Aggramar would have found it as well even earlier.

Yeah Illidan is that extra enough to do that. I mean the guy kept Gul'dan's skull all this time too.

Illidan's a natural theater kid, really.

[huth]

As far as we've seen, the Twisting Nether IS what characters in this setting understand space to be. Whenever someone leaves a planet in canon they're described as "going to the twisting nether," traveling "through the twisting nether" might as well be traveling at warp speed, etc.

Not saying this is the correct interpretation but they have been deliberately vague about it over the years. Especially when out of habit its taken them a decade to establish crucial information like a set timeline.

Because they typically use portals, not spaceships, and Legion ships do use the Twisting Nether as a sort of Warp (á la Warhammer 40k, not Star Trek).

The Twisting Nether is very clearly distinct from the Great Dark, which behaves mostly like our space. Which means it is effing big and mostly empty, among other things.

Nobody in-universe is confused as to what the difference between the two is. Only you because you didn't pay attention.

- - - Updated - - -

Mistweaver is easily replaceable, brings nothing special to the raid and they're not a mandatory healer (which I was referring to when I exaggerated "not mandatory" with the phrase mostly useless).

That's not an exaggeration, that's a completely different statement. There's a rather big gulf between "not strictly necessary" and "do not bring under most circumstances".

[Revamp Man]

The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid <- that's what I said

Mistweaver is easily replaceable, brings nothing special to the raid and they're not a mandatory healer (which I was referring to when I exaggerated "not mandatory" with the phrase mostly useless).

There are some healing specs that are mandatory and are present in basically each and every raid encounter. And then there are healing specs that are not. Mistweaver is one of the latter - and that's my point. But Nymrohd is right, a Monk BR wouldn't change this in a raid anyway.

Monks are the mom healers
If an orb hit halondrus or you miss an interrupt on council they have the mass dispel.
They make the first anduin shield disappear in literal seconds
They provide the physical damage debuff when you don't have the other specs

A res on a monk would serve the same purpose as it will on a pally but Monks are the least played class so it serves more to go to paladin and makes sense because of the past.

[Auxis]

As far as we've seen, the Twisting Nether IS what characters in this setting understand space to be. Whenever someone leaves a planet in canon they're described as "going to the twisting nether," traveling "through the twisting nether" might as well be traveling at warp speed, etc.

Not saying this is the correct interpretation but they have been deliberately vague about it over the years. Especially when out of habit its taken them a decade to establish crucial information like a set timeline.

I'm under the impression that the Great Dark Beyond is the "space" of the Warcraft universe, while the Twisting Nether is a magic plane between planets, kind of like a hyperspace.
We see that Legion ships warp/jump between places to get there quickly (see; the Kil'jaedan fight in ToS, where the ship is in warp-drive to somewhere), and using the Twisting Nether to teleport would make sense: the Great Dark Beyond and the Twisting Nether are said to be parallels/counterparts made during the Light/Void clash, and while the Dark Beyond is empty and physical in a sense where celestial bodies freely float in accordance with Laws of Physics, the Nether is magical and immaterial in a way so teleporting between places in a literal sea of energy would be cakewalk depending on the size of the vessel (see; Legion ships vs Sargeras' physical body).

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Twisting_Nether
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Dark_Beyond

[huth]

I'm under the impression that the Great Dark Beyond is the "space" of the Warcraft universe, while the Twisting Nether is a magic plane between planets, kind of like a hyperspace.

Twisting Nether is to Disorder what the Shadowlands are to Death. It is a magic plane associated with one of the cosmic forces. There's probably a Zereth there somewhere, though i wouldn't be surprised if it is basically impossible to reach from there.

[micwini]

Out of all healers, Mistweaver is usually considered the most replacable. The lack of mandatory utility offered by the class is one of the reasons, that's why giving them a battle rezz would make way more sense than handing it to Paladins which are and almost always have been one of the mandatory healing classes.

Both classes have more than just their healing spec. When you take into account all 3, paladin is way worse off utility wise. Yes HPal is good most of the time, but that is because of tuning, not utility. Monks already have plenty. They have the 5% damage taken increase (this raid buff alone disqualifies them imo), ring of peace, aoe stun, etc. Paladins make the most sense for the next BR class, balance wise and thematically.

[Makabreska]

Both classes have more than just their healing spec. When you take into account all 3, paladin is way worse off utility wise. Yes HPal is good most of the time, but that is because of tuning, not utility. Monks already have plenty. They have the 5% damage taken increase (this raid buff alone disqualifies them imo), ring of peace, aoe stun, etc. Paladins make the most sense for the next BR class, balance wise and thematically.

Is Hpala really worse, with it's auras, BoPs, bubble, Beacon, BoSacrifice, Lay on Hands, CC removal? Not to mention, hpala did ridiculous dmg this expansion.

[micwini]

Is Hpala really worse, with it's auras, BoPs, bubble, Beacon, BoSacrifice, Lay on Hands, CC removal? Not to mention, hpala did ridiculous dmg this expansion.

As I said: Tuning. Most of the stuff you mentioned is not enough to pala. Other healers have the exact same tools. And again: It is not just the healing spec, but rather the entire classes that should be taken into account.