Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Catastrophy349]

So, I love everyone’s response to this question so far and some really good ideas. However, here’s my opinion on lore/bosses/etc.

Personally, I hate the whole “big bad of an expansion” and “defeat big bad at the end of the expansion” theme. What would I prefer? Regardless of your personal feelings on Garrosh, Guldan, and Sylvanas, something I really liked about these characters was the fact that they were built up over the course of an expansion and moved into the next.

For example, Sargeras and the Burning Legion. It was SO cool to see that story build up in WC3, then we had the Burning Crusade, Wrathion questline in MoP, WoD Guldan and HFC ending, and finally, the Legion expansion and Argus.

Then, there’s Zovaal (the complete opposite). His character was basically “rickrolled” onto us at the VERY end of BFA (kind of), then introduced “properly” in SL and, unfortunately, discarded in SL (the same expansion), too. This felt awful.

What I don’t want to see in Dragonflight is another SL “big bad then kill”, and instead, a Burning Legion, Sylvanas, Guldan, or Garrosh situation where maybe Murozond is finally introduced and takes us into 11.0 similarly to Garrosh (MoP to WoD) and Guldan (WoD to Legion), and Sylvanas (BFA to SL). That would be awesome, again, IMO.

[Bsirk]

Final Boss: Galakrond.

Nozdormu's fate: we kill him as a 10.2 raid boss or he lives and leads us to the next expansion.

Next expansion: world revamp from scratch as they did with Draenor in WoD. Current world accessible from CoT or something similar. Circumstances of the revamp undetermined, potential options:

- Nozdormu / Murozond does some magic shit and makes our world go back to the past or move forward to the future an undetermined amount of years.

- Nozdormu / Murozond does some magic shit and we end up on a new version of Azeroth in another universe.

- World revamp caused by the regular past of time, showing all the calamities that we have lived through the years and renovating threats and characters, with the inclusion of many plotlines, highliting the presence of the Void (represented by Xal'atath) and the Light (represented by Yrel).

As you can see my money is on world revamp. 10th expansion, 20 years anniversary of WoW, 30 years anniversary of Warcraft, plus a need for renovation and simplification of systems to attract a much needed new generation of players that has already started with DF. I do not discard a release on consoles with this "new" version of Warcraft.

I am down for all of these guesses!

[unfunnymeme]

Personally, I think they should make Nozdormu resist whatever was going to make him turn to Murozand. Show that fate isn't something set in stone that can never be altered, but an ever shifting flow of causality dependent on the actions of those it concerns.
I just really hate the idea of prophetic visions always coming true. It means that there isn't any actual free will, if everything you do still leads to the same outcome.

When the time comes to re-empower the aspects, have Nozdormu step down and make Chromie or someone else aspect. This relinquishment of power is the one thing he probably never foresaw himself trying, and would lead to an altered end, one that he hasn't seen and cannot see going forward.

[Therougetitan]

I think there was one raid tier were Mistweaver was mandatory and that solely due to the overtuning of Essence Font. Otherwise, Mistweaver is by far the most replaceable healing spec (next to Holy Priest) in raids. In Mythic+ they are neither the sought after healer.

You should keep your info updated. The top two guilds in Sepulcher used two holy priests. MW was also used. The healer neither of the top two guilds used was Resto shaman. Also if you just take 30 seconds to look at the healer leaderboards for mythic+ it is mostly holy priests at the top. Your post is like a time capsule from Sanctum days a year ago that somehow just got slowly posted now.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Personally, I think they should make Nozdormu resist whatever was going to make him turn to Murozand. Show that fate isn't something set in stone that can never be altered, but an ever shifting flow of causality dependent on the actions of those it concerns.
I just really hate the idea of prophetic visions always coming true. It means that there isn't any actual free will, if everything you do still leads to the same outcome.

When the time comes to re-empower the aspects, have Nozdormu step down and make Chromie or someone else aspect. This relinquishment of power is the one thing he probably never foresaw himself trying, and would lead to an altered end, one that he hasn't seen and cannot see going forward.

I was fine with you in the first half. I'm fine with the aspects being reempowered, no idea why people dislike it. Don't want Nozdormu stepping down though.

[unfunnymeme]

I was fine with you in the first half. I'm fine with the aspects being reempowered, no idea why people dislike it. Don't want Nozdormu stepping down though.

That's just one possibility. They could handle it however, I just really hate the idea of fate being set in stone.

[Darkarath]

Personally, I think they should make Nozdormu resist whatever was going to make him turn to Murozand. Show that fate isn't something set in stone that can never be altered, but an ever shifting flow of causality dependent on the actions of those it concerns.
I just really hate the idea of prophetic visions always coming true. It means that there isn't any actual free will, if everything you do still leads to the same outcome.

When the time comes to re-empower the aspects, have Nozdormu step down and make Chromie or someone else aspect. This relinquishment of power is the one thing he probably never foresaw himself trying, and would lead to an altered end, one that he hasn't seen and cannot see going forward.

I do not see Chromie as the leader of a flight, she seems to want to be free of that kind of responsibilities.

Focusing in Nozdormu... Do not know, I find really interesting to explore how he deals with his known fate, and we kind of know that he HAS to become Murozond, right? What other fate would he have, though? Retiring? Being a Cairne and do nothing in future expansions? I think that he could be an amazing villain, I just hope that they keep him alive and develop him properly.

[Eldryth]

I do not see Chromie as the leader of a flight, she seems to want to be free of that kind of responsibilities.

Focusing in Nozdormu... Do not know, I find really interesting to explore how he deals with his known fate, and we kind of know that he HAS to become Murozond, right? What other fate would he have, though? Retiring? Being a Cairne and do nothing in future expansions? I think that he could be an amazing villain, I just hope that they keep him alive and develop him properly.

Chromie becoming an Aspect is something that's been pushed by fans for a long time despite it not making much sense. She's a good character, but not a leader, and Nozdormu already has an established heir in Anachronos (and a bait-and-switch doesn't really make sense when the entire flight has time magic and should be aware of that much). It's just people pushing a well-known character over the sensible one that we don't see much.

As for Nozdormu escaping his fate... I think there's a good chance of that now given that the new Uldaman boss's dialogue suggests that Murozond's origin revolves around us completely failing our mission and him being the only Aspect. Also, though, the original lore for Murozond is that he was corrupted when he tried to prevent his own destined death. If that isn't changed then he might have to die to avoid becoming Murozond- maybe a heroic sacrifice that he refused to make in other timelines?

[huth]

And given the speech he gave, Super Murozond (or Superzond, if you will) is likely to happen.

Nah, they will summon 5 Zonds and combine them into a Megazond.

[Darkarath]

As for Nozdormu escaping his fate... I think there's a good chance of that now given that the new Uldaman boss's dialogue suggests that Murozond's origin revolves around us completely failing our mission and him being the only Aspect. Also, though, the original lore for Murozond is that he was corrupted when he tried to prevent his own destined death. If that isn't changed then he might have to die to avoid becoming Murozond- maybe a heroic sacrifice that he refused to make in other timelines?

An heroic sacrifice would be a fitting end for him, but ONLY if he gets a lot of development in DF. If not, his death will not matter to most players, as we have barely interacted with him in almost 20 years. We barely know him.

Although the idea of him becoming an overpowered aspect is interesting, could still become a good villain and could push the rest of the dragons to interesting and unpredictable paths.

[Catastrophy349]

An heroic sacrifice would be a fitting end for him, but ONLY if he gets a lot of development in DF. If not, his death will not matter to most players, as we have barely interacted with him in almost 20 years. We barely know him.

Although the idea of him becoming an overpowered aspect is interesting, could still become a good villain and could push the rest of the dragons to interesting and unpredictable paths.

I’m excited for Dragonflight. I love WoW lore; however, SL showing us death is so off putting for anyone dying. We can’t be sad if he dies because we can go visit him in the Shadowlands! Or, if we can’t, we know he’s ok.

[Darkarath]

I’m excited for Dragonflight. I love WoW lore; however, SL showing us death is so off putting for anyone dying. We can’t be sad if he dies because we can go visit him in the Shadowlands! Or, if we can’t, we know he’s ok.

Yes, they definitively need to deal with the Shadowlands in some way and soon, because as long as it exists every death is meaningless.

The damage done to the game by the story and narrative of SL is crazy.

DF is Danuser's last chance of making something decent with his job IMO. If he fails I hope that Blizzard immediately releases him from his duties.

[Ferlion]

Yes, they definitively need to deal with the Shadowlands in some way and soon, because as long as it exists every death is meaningless.

The damage done to the game by the story and narrative of SL is crazy.

DF is Danuser's last chance of making something decent with his job IMO. If he fails I hope that Blizzard immediately releases him from his duties.

I hate seeing posts like this, because ultimately I think that Shadowlands is terrible, but it has to be said that it doesn't make death meaningless.
An afterlife has ALWAYS been around in WoW. It's also always been something people can interact with.

That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that. Death and the Shadowlands does not change how resurrection works in most cases. It doesn't change how people interact with spirits and talking with them in most cases.

There has always been an afterlife in WoW. This is explicit and always has been. That we see part of it does not invalidate death.

If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult, it's just back to what has always existed in WoW lore.

[Raetary]

Nah, they will summon 5 Zonds and combine them into a Megazond.

"This isn't even my final form!"

[TS26]

I hate seeing posts like this, because ultimately I think that Shadowlands is terrible, but it has to be said that it doesn't make death meaningless.
An afterlife has ALWAYS been around in WoW. It's also always been something people can interact with.

That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that. Death and the Shadowlands does not change how resurrection works in most cases. It doesn't change how people interact with spirits and talking with them in most cases.

There has always been an afterlife in WoW. This is explicit and always has been. That we see part of it does not invalidate death.

If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult, it's just back to what has always existed in WoW lore.

IMO, the issue with shadowlands is that it doesnt really work from a gameplay prospective.

It is the afterlife. How can things die there? How can I go to the afterlife and kill things left and right and then they cease to be? In that sense shadowlands is just basically another plane of existence that comes after death and it's not true afterlife, if this makes sense.

It's just weird. Plus, did we all forget where they said that each character in shadowlands is comprised of ALL their AU/MU characters? how stupid is that. For example, garrosh is supposed to be all versions of garrosh combined into one in the afterlife, and yet it's obviously the MU garrosh.

Terrible story writing.

[Darkarath]

I hate seeing posts like this, because ultimately I think that Shadowlands is terrible, but it has to be said that it doesn't make death meaningless.
An afterlife has ALWAYS been around in WoW. It's also always been something people can interact with.

That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that. Death and the Shadowlands does not change how resurrection works in most cases. It doesn't change how people interact with spirits and talking with them in most cases.

There has always been an afterlife in WoW. This is explicit and always has been. That we see part of it does not invalidate death.

If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult, it's just back to what has always existed in WoW lore.

There is an afterlive in probably every fantasy universe that usually is not meddled too much with because potentially you can do enormous damage to your lore. Shadowlands is a perfect example of that.

Basic insight into core realms? If someone close to us die we just have to talk to our pal Pelagos and ask him to point us in which direction we have to go to take a nice cup of tea with our friend who died yesterday.

Travel to the Shadowlands is, according to the last time that Danuser spoke about it, extremely easy, we just have to cross a portal. I think that he even mentioned as an example a baker visiting his lost ones.

Death is meaningless in WoW until Shadowlands is properly dealt with. Again, we can just go there, grab our pal, and bring him back to the realms of life. Is just that easy. The possibility is there, and if Pelagos do not allow it we only have to use brute force to achieve our objective. One would have expected more mistery or more difficulties, but no, just with brute force, we can bring anyone, probably with his body an all, not an ethereal shape of what he / she was.

Its pathetic.

[Raetary]

If the rift between ICC and Shadowlands has been repaired, and travel is now extremely difficult,

This isn't true, it never even was with how travel has been established.
We just didn't know it was a place we can get to in the first place.

The Brokers, Necros, Kyrians, etc. travel between the Veil without a single problem and we have established portal links directly to Oribos in our capitals.

That we get some very basic insight into core realms does not change that

Very basic insight.
You call learning everything there is to know about them, joining them and climbing their ranks to become one of the highest ranking members of their covenants "very basic insight"?

Hell, we are even buddy-buddy with the Arbiter.
We HELPED him become the Arbiter in the first place.

[Makabreska]

Ion kinda confirming we will have more classes added in the future:

"This is something we talk about a lot. Evoker not having a tank spec, I think, is more a reflection on the fantasy of what being a draconic being is and how you would expect it to act. A breath weapon and wings and mobility and all that felt like it lent itself more to a ranged-based class, a caster. And caster abilities don’t always work well with tanking, so we didn’t go in that direction with that fantasy. Future classes may have tank specs."

[Nyel]

You should keep your info updated. The top two guilds in Sepulcher used two holy priests. MW was also used. The healer neither of the top two guilds used was Resto shaman. Also if you just take 30 seconds to look at the healer leaderboards for mythic+ it is mostly holy priests at the top. Your post is like a time capsule from Sanctum days a year ago that somehow just got slowly posted now.

Your statement makes not much sense as your and my time frames are entirely different. You look at the recent tier when I am speaking of a 10 year span since Monks have been introduced. Yes, there were / are a few tiers were Monks and even Holy Priests are "top tier", but again, that's not the point I made. Who cares about Sepulcher parsings in 4-5 months? Nobody. That's why they really don't matter here. It doesn't matter though, let's just pretend Monks don't exist and nobody would care anyway.

[Makabreska]

Your statement makes not much sense as your and my time frames are entirely different. You look at the recent tier when I am speaking of a 10 year span since Monks have been introduced. Yes, there were / are a few tiers were Monks and even Holy Priests are "top tier", but again, that's not the point I made. Who cares about Sepulcher parsings in 4-5 months? Nobody. That's why they really don't matter here. It doesn't matter though, let's just pretend Monks don't exist and nobody would care anyway.

Uhhhhh, what is it even this logic? MW/HolyP do not matter now, because they didn't matter enough in the past, while being actually good in CURRENT content? You judge entire spec performance with how good and relevant they were in the past, not the present? Again, what is this logic? I remind you this is a conversation, which spec should get CR, based on it's current/DF utility.