Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[huth]

That screenshot actually doesn't make much sense. Outland might aswell be Azeroth's moon if it's that close.

That was explained as Illidan using magic so he could see it long before WoD even released. Azeroth isn't normally visible from Outland.

[Raetary]

Well I think that you can actually see Azeroth from the Black Temple: http://i.imgur.com/CHTJ8Im.jpg

Yes, i am aware of that, but that old skybox is nothing but a weird design choice that's at best something Illidan did, or at worst just an easter egg.

Outland and Azeroth are not anywhere near each other, not within the same star system and since Draenors destruction not even within the same cosmic plane.
Draenor is a gigantic planet with multiple moons, it would've been visible in Azeroths skies if it was.

Furthermore, if they were close to one another than the Legion wouldn't have needed the whole Dark Portal stick to invade the place.
Aggramar wouldn't taken that long to find Azeroth after finding Draenor.
And Draenor going boom and shifting into the Nether would've affected Azeroth too.

[Nymrohd]

I think it's part of the original plot were Illidan was supposed to be insane and likely created an illusion of Azeroth to stare at.

If Azeroth was anywhere close to Draenor Aggramar would have found it as well even earlier.

[Ersula]

Outland is not even in the real space anymore. When Draenor exploded Outland was thrown into the Twisting Nether.

As far as we've seen, the Twisting Nether IS what characters in this setting understand space to be. Whenever someone leaves a planet in canon they're described as "going to the twisting nether," traveling "through the twisting nether" might as well be traveling at warp speed, etc.

Not saying this is the correct interpretation but they have been deliberately vague about it over the years. Especially when out of habit its taken them a decade to establish crucial information like a set timeline.

[Darkarath]

Yes, i am aware of that, but that old skybox is nothing but a weird design choice that's at best something Illidan did, or at worst just an easter egg.

Outland and Azeroth are not anywhere near each other, not within the same star system and since Draenors destruction not even within the same cosmic plane.
Draenor is a gigantic planet with multiple moons, it would've been visible in Azeroths skies if it was.

Furthermore, if they were close to one another than the Legion wouldn't have needed the whole Dark Portal stick to invade the place.
Aggramar wouldn't taken that long to find Azeroth after finding Draenor.
And Draenor going boom and shifting into the Nether would've affected Azeroth too.

Ohh I see, thanks for clearing that up. I do remember something at the time about Illidan being obsessed with Azeroth, so I guess that the explanation is some weird magic.

[Nyel]

Don't know about Paladins getting a battle rezz. They are already a healer that everybody wants to have and that has a lot of utility. What about Monks, maybe for once? The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid. Same goes for Evoker getting Heroism / Bloodlust, why? Evoker has already TONS of utility, they really don't need this.

Dragonflight launching end of November sounds plausible now and it's... okay? I like November releases, it feels more natural than the August expansion launches for Legion and BfA.

[Makabreska]

Don't know about Paladins getting a battle rezz. They are already a healer that everybody wants to have and that has a lot of utility. What about Monks, maybe for once? The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid. Same goes for Evoker getting Heroism / Bloodlust, why? Evoker has already TONS of utility, they really don't need this.

Dragonflight launching end of November sounds plausible now and it's... okay? I like November releases, it feels more natural than the August expansion launches for Legion and BfA.

Dude, why are you spouting such nonsense? Mystic Touch ALONE is the reason to bring monk. Monk so useless that WF Jailer had two of them, Sylvi one and Sire one.


In other news, cross faction guilds are officially confirmed to be in the works. And some people said it will never happen...

[Nyel]

Dude, why are you spouting such nonsense? Mystic Touch ALONE is the reason to bring monk.

Out of all healers, Mistweaver is usually considered the most replacable. The lack of mandatory utility offered by the class is one of the reasons, that's why giving them a battle rezz would make way more sense than handing it to Paladins which are and almost always have been one of the mandatory healing classes.

[Nymrohd]

Don't know about Paladins getting a battle rezz. They are already a healer that everybody wants to have and that has a lot of utility. What about Monks, maybe for once? The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid. Same goes for Evoker getting Heroism / Bloodlust, why? Evoker has already TONS of utility, they really don't need this.

Dragonflight launching end of November sounds plausible now and it's... okay? I like November releases, it feels more natural than the August expansion launches for Legion and BfA.

Monks have a unique buff only they can provide and some of the strongest utility spells in the game. Ring of Peace alone is reason enough for the monks to get nothing else, not to mention Mystic Touch.

[Nyel]

Monks have a unique buff only they can provide and some of the strongest utility spells in the game. Ring of Peace alone is reason enough for the monks to get nothing else, not to mention Mystic Touch.

Again, it's about Mistweaver. And Ring of Peace is very, very situational in raids and useful only on very few encounters. I'm not saying that MW is trash tier, but it's far from being one of the desired or mandatory healing specs.

[Nymrohd]

Again, it's about Mistweaver. And Ring of Peace is very, very situational in raids and useful only on very few encounters. I'm not saying that MW is trash tier, but it's far from being one of the desired or mandatory healing specs.

And CR would not affect it in raids where any number of people already bring it. It would affect it in dungeons were Mystic Touch props it up just as well, RoP is always useful for kiting as well. Meanwhile beyond the obvious reason (Paladins have the strongest thematic and historic ties to CR) all three paladin specs have generally been mediocre in M+ only propped up by some expansion-specific circumstance (Ashen Hallow in SL)

[Makabreska]

Again, it's about Mistweaver. And Ring of Peace is very, very situational in raids and useful only on very few encounters. I'm not saying that MW is trash tier, but it's far from being one of the desired or mandatory healing specs.

And again, you said MW monk is useless, brings nothing and is easily replaceable. Yet both Jailer and Rygelon had one in WF kill. On Rygelon, which is high healing intensive fight, they dropped to 4 healers. And one of them was MW. So, are they useless?

[Nyel]

And again, you said MW monk is useless, brings nothing and is easily replaceable. Yet both Jailer and Rygelon had one in WF kill. On Rygelon, which is high healing intensive fight, they dropped to 4 healers. And one of them was MW. So, are they useless?

The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid <- that's what I said

Mistweaver is easily replaceable, brings nothing special to the raid and they're not a mandatory healer (which I was referring to when I exaggerated "not mandatory" with the phrase mostly useless).

There are some healing specs that are mandatory and are present in basically each and every raid encounter. And then there are healing specs that are not. Mistweaver is one of the latter - and that's my point. But Nymrohd is right, a Monk BR wouldn't change this in a raid anyway.

[Nymrohd]

The only healers who have been mandatory was Disc Priest when the absorbs were out of line and Holy Paladin because of endurance and passive healing to the tank. The former does not happen as often, the latter is balanced by generally low throughput.

[Makabreska]

The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid <- that's what I said

Mistweaver is easily replaceable, brings nothing special to the raid and they're not a mandatory healer (which I was referring to when I exaggerated "not mandatory" with the phrase mostly useless).

There are some healing specs that are mandatory and are present in basically each and every raid encounter. And then there are healing specs that are not. Mistweaver is one of the latter - and that's my point. But Nymrohd is right, a Monk BR wouldn't change this in a raid anyway.

There is no such thing as a mandatory healer really, because it would mean there is a certain mechanic that only certain healer can handle. Throughput alone and general utility does not make spec mandatory, and this becomes more and more true the further you move away from World First race.

[Nymrohd]

There is no such thing as a mandatory healer really, because it would mean there is a certain mechanic that only certain healer can handle. Throughput alone and general utility does not make spec mandatory, and this becomes more and more true the further you move away from World First race.

There have been times when a discipline healer or more absolutely were mandatory and otherwise your healers very much had to outgear the raid. We are past that time thankfully but it did happen.

[Makabreska]

There have been times when a discipline healer or more absolutely were mandatory and otherwise your healers very much had to outgear the raid. We are past that time thankfully but it did happen.

Ye, sure. Like shield spam on LK. But, as said, these are old times.

[Kiivar86]

I think it's part of the original plot were Illidan was supposed to be insane and likely created an illusion of Azeroth to stare at.

If Azeroth was anywhere close to Draenor Aggramar would have found it as well even earlier.

Yeah Illidan is that extra enough to do that. I mean the guy kept Gul'dan's skull all this time too.

Illidan's a natural theater kid, really.

[huth]

As far as we've seen, the Twisting Nether IS what characters in this setting understand space to be. Whenever someone leaves a planet in canon they're described as "going to the twisting nether," traveling "through the twisting nether" might as well be traveling at warp speed, etc.

Not saying this is the correct interpretation but they have been deliberately vague about it over the years. Especially when out of habit its taken them a decade to establish crucial information like a set timeline.

Because they typically use portals, not spaceships, and Legion ships do use the Twisting Nether as a sort of Warp (á la Warhammer 40k, not Star Trek).

The Twisting Nether is very clearly distinct from the Great Dark, which behaves mostly like our space. Which means it is effing big and mostly empty, among other things.

Nobody in-universe is confused as to what the difference between the two is. Only you because you didn't pay attention.

- - - Updated - - -

Mistweaver is easily replaceable, brings nothing special to the raid and they're not a mandatory healer (which I was referring to when I exaggerated "not mandatory" with the phrase mostly useless).

That's not an exaggeration, that's a completely different statement. There's a rather big gulf between "not strictly necessary" and "do not bring under most circumstances".

[Revamp Man]

The class is mostly useless and is never considered a mandatory part of a raid <- that's what I said

Mistweaver is easily replaceable, brings nothing special to the raid and they're not a mandatory healer (which I was referring to when I exaggerated "not mandatory" with the phrase mostly useless).

There are some healing specs that are mandatory and are present in basically each and every raid encounter. And then there are healing specs that are not. Mistweaver is one of the latter - and that's my point. But Nymrohd is right, a Monk BR wouldn't change this in a raid anyway.

Monks are the mom healers
If an orb hit halondrus or you miss an interrupt on council they have the mass dispel.
They make the first anduin shield disappear in literal seconds
They provide the physical damage debuff when you don't have the other specs

A res on a monk would serve the same purpose as it will on a pally but Monks are the least played class so it serves more to go to paladin and makes sense because of the past.