1. #66181
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Or, maybe, Blizzard has a hard time coming up with relatively original narratives so they just stick to the themes that are popular.
    Their narratives seldom are original, few fantasy games have ones that are, but their settings and lore even when inspired by already popular work are very interesting. Draenor being a planet on which the land and mineral beings are fighting against the flora and root beings was quite a fascinating thing. Same goes with Zereth mortis and the first one automa. Many cultures crafted in the game get you invested let it be the troll tribes and their beliefs, rituals or the mogu's rich history that made the land of pandaria such a rich place.

    So I'm not too worried about the narrative of the coming expansions, it can only become better and better and it will always be accompanied with rich lore to support it.

  2. #66182
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Their narratives seldom are original
    Being completely original isn't the point, being original in the context of the franchise is.
    Hence why i said relative original instead of just original.

    Blizzard has a big ass issue repeating plot lines ad nauseam.



  3. #66183
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    Their narratives seldom are original, few fantasy games have ones that are, but their settings and lore even when inspired by already popular work are very interesting. Draenor being a planet on which the land and mineral beings are fighting against the flora and root beings was quite a fascinating thing. Same goes with Zereth mortis and the first one automa. Many cultures crafted in the game get you invested let it be the troll tribes and their beliefs, rituals or the mogu's rich history that made the land of pandaria such a rich place.

    So I'm not too worried about the narrative of the coming expansions, it can only become better and better and it will always be accompanied with rich lore to support it.
    Honestly I don't think originality is important in the genre unless you are trying to create suspense which imo is not ideal due to the medium; when chances are you will not revisit a story for many months or maybe more than a year on occasion, just leaving people hanging may well mean you have them drop the story entirely.

    And anyway the problem with the WoW narrative is that the world has become entirely secondary to the characters. It wasn't so in Vanilla or TBC, it started being the problem with Wrath and escalate in Cata, with MoP being the only reprieve from that type of narrative (where characters were again used to tell the story of their people instead of entire races being backgrounds for the story of the characters). And nothing revealed so far about the story of Dragonflight makes me hopeful that changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Being completely original isn't the point, being original in the context of the franchise is.
    Hence why i said relative original instead of just original.

    Blizzard has a big ass issue repeating plot lines ad nauseam.
    Yet you still see people clamoring for Turalyon to be villain batted.

  4. #66184
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Yet you still see people clamoring for Turalyon to be villain batted.
    Again, salty Horde players with Garrosh/Sylvi PTSD. They don't want a better story, they want a reason to raid SW.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-08-21 at 11:18 AM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  5. #66185
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Being completely original isn't the point, being original in the context of the franchise is.
    Hence why i said relative original instead of just original.

    Blizzard has a big ass issue repeating plot lines ad nauseam.
    oh oki I misunderstood you then ^^'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And anyway the problem with the WoW narrative is that the world has become entirely secondary to the characters. It wasn't so in Vanilla or TBC, it started being the problem with Wrath and escalate in Cata, with MoP being the only reprieve from that type of narrative (where characters were again used to tell the story of their people instead of entire races being backgrounds for the story of the characters). And nothing revealed so far about the story of Dragonflight makes me hopeful that changes.
    I'm not sure I see what difference you're talking about in narration. What worked well in BC that we haven't had a chance to see a lot of in recent years?

  6. #66186
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Faint?! We are trying to make it echo across the hills here?
    That's my brother ♥

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    And people generally got the way they do so completely wrong.

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    From within a tunnel?
    We're the END of the tunnel. We're the updated giraffe model. The unused inn. We linger in the data, awaiting our hour.

  7. #66187
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Again, salty Horde players with Garrosh/Sylvi PTSD. They don't want a better story, they want a reason to raid SW.
    Huh? Throughout all of BfA, I clearly remember Alliance players wanting their own war-hungry character.

  8. #66188
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    Huh? Throughout all of BfA, I clearly remember Alliance players wanting their own war-hungry character.
    And they got it. Now faction wars are over, probably for good. Yet some people still feel faction-shafted.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  9. #66189
    So I'm assuming two weeks until pre-patch hits the ptr
    Assuming it goes live on the leaked date that means tons of fun with the new talents
    I'm guessing the legendaries get deactivated so we will have the usual whine about having less than we do now ignoring the fact you can have the entirety of a talent row

    I am curious about how far our gear will be able to get us through the leveling process and I'm assuming prepatch will give atleast 240 so I gotta hurry and level my priest for the AR heritage

    There's also some certainty that we will see legendaries return from wrathion or his brother with only flavor differences

  10. #66190
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    Huh? Throughout all of BfA, I clearly remember Alliance players wanting their own war-hungry character.
    Let's make a clear distinction between a "war-hungry character" like MoP-Legion Jaina or WotLK Varian and a "crazy psycho lunatic bitch character" like Garrosh and Sylvanas.

    What we Alliance players wanted was the former. Someone who has a spine and will not tolerate any transgression commited against the Alliance. But also someone who is not generic pure evil.

    That's why many people complained how Jaina went from "beware... of me!" in BfA pre-patch, to being horny for Thrall in 8.2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Has science turned into a buzzword nowadays?
    Sure does seem like it, not targetting you in particular here.

    At any rate i remember a certain dragon settling his flaming arse squarely on the front gate, torching an entire district in one go, knocking over several statues, getting bored and flying off again after fetching his dead daughter's head, so i would not exactly overestimate its defenses either.
    They're great, yeah, but next to i.e. Antorus or Ny'alotha, well, i don't think it can hold a candle to them.
    And we raided those places just fine, like the bunch of merry murderhobos we are.
    You are comparing an Aspect empowered by the Titans and by the Old God N'Zoth, to a faction of barbarians living in mud huts. Scientifically, your comparison doesn't make sense. What Deathwing can do is irrelevant to what the Horde can do.

    Also, last I checked, we only breached Antorus thanks to the Vindicaar. Which is used by the Alliance, btw. Since the Horde are barbarians living in mud huts who couldn't possibly know how to build a spaceship.

  11. #66191
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Space exploration expansion?

  12. #66192
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Let's make a clear distinction between a "war-hungry character" like MoP-Legion Jaina or WotLK Varian and a "crazy psycho lunatic bitch character" like Garrosh and Sylvanas.

    What we Alliance players wanted was the former. Someone who has a spine and will not tolerate any transgression commited against the Alliance. But also someone who is not generic pure evil.

    That's why many people complained how Jaina went from "beware... of me!" in BfA pre-patch, to being horny for Thrall in 8.2.

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    You are comparing an Aspect empowered by the Titans and by the Old God N'Zoth, to a faction of barbarians living in mud huts. Scientifically, your comparison doesn't make sense. What Deathwing can do is irrelevant to what the Horde can do.

    Also, last I checked, we only breached Antorus thanks to the Vindicaar. Which is used by the Alliance, btw. Since the Horde are barbarians living in mud huts who couldn't possibly know how to build a spaceship.
    Again with the buzzword variant of "science", just stop using that word if you don't know the meaning. I mean i can mangle and malform the meanings of words too if that's the game, let's give these words a little bit more photosynthesis, though i think we can quickly agree that this is pointless.

    Anyway, yeah they're not comparable in raw destructive comparison, it's not like the Horde has ever had or used the capacity to wipe entire cities off the map and reshape the world in a whim? Oh wait.
    It's a bit more complex than that i'll admit, but it's foolish to believe that just Saurfang's words reflect some absolute state of in-lore reality rather than it just being another perspective that indicates that, yes, Stormwind is very well defended.

    But to call a city that has been sacked in the past and where the world's fattest living dragon could set his ass without encountering meaningful resistance anything close to "untakeable"? That's just factually wrong.

    And yes, i am aware of the vindicaar. I also note its absence in the story since its introduction, implying the lightforged are more like the kirin'tor in that they side with the alliance but reserve their true powers for world ending threats.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  13. #66193
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Again with the buzzword variant of "science", just stop using that word if you don't know the meaning. I mean i can mangle and malform the meanings of words too if that's the game, let's give these words a little bit more photosynthesis, though i think we can quickly agree that this is pointless.

    Anyway, yeah they're not comparable in raw destructive comparison, it's not like the Horde has ever had or used the capacity to wipe entire cities off the map and reshape the world in a whim? Oh wait.
    It's a bit more complex than that i'll admit, but it's foolish to believe that just Saurfang's words reflect some absolute state of in-lore reality rather than it just being another perspective that indicates that, yes, Stormwind is very well defended.

    But to call a city that has been sacked in the past and where the world's fattest living dragon could set his ass without encountering meaningful resistance anything close to "untakeable"? That's just factually wrong.

    And yes, i am aware of the vindicaar. I also note its absence in the story since its introduction, implying the lightforged are more like the kirin'tor in that they side with the alliance but reserve their true powers for world ending threats.
    Nope. You're objectively proven wrong. Canon literally disproves your headcanon.

    The writers of Blizzard spoke through Saurfang and they stated that the Horde can never take Stormwind.

    Don't worry though, if you go to SoO (the real Orgrimmar breached by the Alliance) and fight Garrosh, you'll enter into a nightmare where Stormwind (a fake alternate Stormwind) is breached. Same thing if you play 8.3 content. Unfortunately, a nightmare is the only place where Stormwind will ever be breached.

  14. #66194
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    And they got it. Now faction wars are over, probably for good. Yet some people still feel faction-shafted.
    Well Night Elves got shafted. They are a faction within a faction, would that be "race-shafted"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Nope. You're objectively proven wrong. Canon literally disproves your headcanon.

    The writers of Blizzard spoke through Saurfang and they stated that the Horde can never take Stormwind.
    Yeah because that would ruin the gameplay. Unless they also manage to remove the Horde from Orgrimmar aswell.

  15. #66195
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Well Night Elves got shafted. They are a faction within a faction, would that be "race-shafted"?

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    Yeah because that would ruin the gameplay. Unless they also manage to remove the Horde from Orgrimmar aswell.
    Gameplay has nothing to do with this.

    Lorewise, Orgrimmar was breached and taken by the Alliance/Rebel forces at the end of MoP, with Khadgar in WoD noting that Orgrimmar was "sacked".

    Lorewise, a similar scenario will never happen to Stormwind, because the Horde army can't take Stormwind. This was Canonically confirmed by the Blizzard writers speaking through the supreme general of all Horde armies.

  16. #66196
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Mathematical impossible ultimately just means the numbers don't add up. I don't disagree that it likely wouldn't be used, but it isn't technically wrong for an attack that has no percievable chance of succeeding.

    Conquest means taking and holding an objective. Destroying it isn't doing either. So yes, i could and would claim that he had not conquered it, he'd have destroyed it.
    Same goes for Ny'alotha: We didn't conquer it, we destroyed it.
    I suppose Rome never did conquer Carthage; They created a desert and called it peace.

    But you know the nice thing about empty space?
    It doesn't need to be taken fron anything, nor readily held against anything.

    And so they created a new colony there and called it Carthage again.

    At this point not calling it conquest is just pointless prattling about definitions.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  17. #66197
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Gameplay has nothing to do with this.

    Lorewise, Orgrimmar was breached and taken by the Alliance/Rebel forces at the end of MoP, with Khadgar in WoD noting that Orgrimmar was "sacked".

    Lorewise, a similar scenario will never happen to Stormwind, because the Horde army can't take Stormwind. This was Canonically confirmed by the Blizzard writers speaking through the supreme general of all Horde armies.
    Yeah and they gave it back which was stupid. Jaina was right when she was saying "dismantle the Horde".

  18. #66198
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Nope. You're objectively proven wrong. Canon literally disproves your headcanon.

    The writers of Blizzard spoke through Saurfang and they stated that the Horde can never take Stormwind.

    Don't worry though, if you go to SoO (the real Orgrimmar breached by the Alliance) and fight Garrosh, you'll enter into a nightmare where Stormwind (a fake alternate Stormwind) is breached. Same thing if you play 8.3 content. Unfortunately, a nightmare is the only place where Stormwind will ever be breached.
    Canon literally shows a dragon's ass in Stormwind, and mentions its destruction at the hands of the previous Horde thoroughly; it is not only takeable, it has literally been taken, broken into, its defenses shown to be pointless against various sorts of threats. It is literally not untakeable because it has been taken.

    "The writers spoke through Saurfang"? Holy batman do you have no sense of perspective for anything? That's about as headcanon as headcanon gets; "I am convinced random old orc general speaks absolute truths regarding this thing i totally coincidentally happen to care about.". How can you not see yourself?

    I don't really care about Stormwind ever being breached in the game, it's as good a location for afight as many others.
    But the thing is that we have seen it being breached, in a cinematic trailer no less. Getting into cognitive dissonance mode for whatever reason really changes nothing about that.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  19. #66199
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Space exploration expansion?
    Space colony expansion, the gnomes or gobs plan a space programm and send us to Marszeroth.



  20. #66200
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Space colony expansion, the gnomes or gobs plan a space programm and send us to Marszeroth.
    Didn't we send intelligent raptors to space already?
    In Aszhara or something, part of the goblin starting-ish zones.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

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