Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Raetary]

Y'all do realize this can still be true about the Nether yet expanded upon yeah? I mean the true Nether is still kinda unknown outside of some glimpses of it.

They HAVE expanded upon the cosmology.
And all they did was just reaffirm the 6 forces - 6 planes - 6 Zereths division.

That is canon.
That's how canon works.
You can't disregard current canon just because the writers might change it in the future.
The Twisting Nether IS the plane of Disorder, just like the Shadowlands are the plane of Death.

[Raetary]

I am also aware that the Titans can also just not be fully aware of different realms and have limited perspectives of them as a result.

You keep repeating the perspective stick when it doesn't matter, what matters is the structure as established by the writers.
Which is incredibly clear cut and simple.

The intricacies of each individual plane are irrelevant, and not even what is being discussed.

[Nymrohd]

Yes, but the Chronicle also makes descriptions about the Dream and the Shadowlands, which feels vague and downright ignorant at best.

Especially when you consider that the Dream and the Shadowlands are not yin and yang realms. That's just the Dream and Ardenweald, and at best, the "Shadowlands" may just be in regards tk the Veil, as anything past it is almost never mentioned outside of Odyns peek into it, which costed him an eye in the process.

None of this changes the fact the these are separate and distinct realms. You can argue their origin may be evolved but they are distinct.

[Raetary]

What is the topic then?.

The topic is about whether or not the Twisting Nether is its own plane of existence or not.
Which Ersula considers not to be the case because they, once again, ignore established lore for their own weird headcanon takes.

[Lady Atia]

Again I point out how much of this is a matter of interpretation, as nothing of the sort has been concretely explained: The Twisting Nether and Disorder are not depicted anything like how Death & the Shadowlands are on the cosmology chart (the shadowlands & death regions are touching: the twisting nether isn't on the chart at all) As well as I don't think the canon has mentioned "the great dark beyond" for over a decade. Who's to say they aren't different in-universe cultures' names for the same thing.

That being said: Remember when I insisted it didn't make sense that there would be a Zereth for all 6 of the cosmic forces? We've gotten confirmation that I was wrong, but it still doesn't make any sense: If the Automa were creating the basis for all living things in Zereth Mortis, the question remains what the hell would they be doing in Zereth Vitae? That's the life one, then why is life being created at Zereth Mortis?

As much as I want to give Danuser some slack I don't think he likes thinking through any of these things.

The automa at Zereth Mortis were creating the afterlifes, not all living things. Zereth Vitae would prolly spawn stuff in the gardens of life, wild gods, etc., while for example Zereth Tumult would create new Daemons and new parts of the Twisting Nether, if they all have a similiar purpose. One could also argue that Mortis might be the oldest of the Zereths, as it makes sense that you would create the Afterlife first before mortal souls start to go there.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Except in universe, this is clearly a matter of perspective, regardless of "authors purpose" which is at best unreliable.

This is wrong because we, posters on MMO-Champion, do not exist within the Warcraft universe. We can discuss the truth and facts of this fictional universe as expanded on by the official authors of the universe with absolute clarity as it's provided to us... because it has been provided to us and has been expanded on.


We aren't fucking philosophers sitting around a campfire in Stormwind pondering our existence and the reality of Azeroth.

[Makabreska]

Meanwhile, DK talent changes:

https://www.wowhead.com/news/upcomin...t-alpha-328569

[Revamp Man]

Again I point out how much of this is a matter of interpretation, as nothing of the sort has been concretely explained: The Twisting Nether and Disorder are not depicted anything like how Death & the Shadowlands are on the cosmology chart (the shadowlands & death regions are touching: the twisting nether isn't on the chart at all) As well as I don't think the canon has mentioned "the great dark beyond" for over a decade. Who's to say they aren't different in-universe cultures' names for the same thing.

That being said: Remember when I insisted it didn't make sense that there would be a Zereth for all 6 of the cosmic forces? We've gotten confirmation that I was wrong, but it still doesn't make any sense: If the Automa were creating the basis for all living things in Zereth Mortis, the question remains what the hell would they be doing in Zereth Vitae? That's the life one, then why is life being created at Zereth Mortis?

As much as I want to give Danuser some slack I don't think he likes thinking through any of these things.

Well while living things are being made in mortis its possible the things allowing those to live are in vitae

[Nymrohd]

Meanwhile, DK talent changes:

https://www.wowhead.com/news/upcomin...t-alpha-328569

#FrostLivesMatter

[Catastrophy349]

Happy Saturday!

I would like to propose a fun conversation to get us out of this “Twisting Nether/Great Beyond” debate.

How do you see Dragonflight ending (lore wise)? Will we get an Infinite Dragonflight (Murozond) shattering the timeways expansion? Life expansion? Titan expansion? Let’s talk it out!

[Sondrelk]

Happy Saturday!

I would like to propose a fun conversation to get us out of this “Twisting Nether/Great Beyond” debate.

How do you see Dragonflight ending (lore wise)? Will we get an Infinite Dragonflight (Murozond) shattering the timeways expansion? Life expansion? Titan expansion? Let’s talk it out!

I would say the final boss of Dragonflight will almost certainly be either Murozond or Galakrond, which one is up in the air, though I would lean slightly towards Galakrond.

The setting I would imagine is time travel. The ultimate plot by the Infinite Dragonflight by attempting to stop the Aspects killing Galakrond.

My guess would be that we see Nozdormu turn into Murozond sometime during DF, after which we will have the usual "find the macguffin" plotline for 10.2 that tends to be the way to go for the midpoint of an expansion, with the final patch being heavily time travel themed.

[Darkarath]

Final Boss: Galakrond.

Nozdormu's fate: we kill him as a 10.2 raid boss or he lives and leads us to the next expansion.

Next expansion: world revamp from scratch as they did with Draenor in WoD. Current world accessible from CoT or something similar. Circumstances of the revamp undetermined, potential options:

- Nozdormu / Murozond does some magic shit and makes our world go back to the past or move forward to the future an undetermined amount of years.

- Nozdormu / Murozond does some magic shit and we end up on a new version of Azeroth in another universe.

- World revamp caused by the regular past of time, showing all the calamities that we have lived through the years and renovating threats and characters, with the inclusion of many plotlines, highliting the presence of the Void (represented by Xal'atath) and the Light (represented by Yrel).

As you can see my money is on world revamp. 10th expansion, 20 years anniversary of WoW, 30 years anniversary of Warcraft, plus a need for renovation and simplification of systems to attract a much needed new generation of players that has already started with DF. I do not discard a release on consoles with this "new" version of Warcraft.

[Raetary]

10.0 - Deal with Primalists
10.1 - Deal with Scythid and twillights underground - start time travel to find Disc containing info about Aspects
10.2 - Disc is found, attempt empowernment, things go bad, Murozond happens - deal with infinites
10.3 - Murozond fucked timeways, Galakrond is sent to present day, deal with him and Incarnates, empower Aspects properly.


Sprinkle the various side plots (Dream, Nelves, Dragon politics, etc.) in-between.

[huth]

It's literally called "the cosmology chart." Its as if you just said "Maps are just made to look pretty, not to clarify spatial relationships" if these things are allegedly settled in canon, post some published receipts.

Welcome to the world of middle ages mapmaking, which are exactly like that. Better not try to measure distances with them. Unless it's a sea chart, which was specially designed for that particular purpose.

[Ersula]

Welcome to the world of middle ages mapmaking, which are exactly like that. Better not try to measure distances with them. Unless it's a sea chart, which was specially designed for that particular purpose.

I know. I've seen the maps of Azeroth in Warcraft 3. It's nice that its so easy to discredit the resources the developers directly give us, but I still don't see you providing anything to back up your statement that "the twisting nether is to Disorder what the shadowlands is to Death" if that's allegedly "settled" by the canon.

Because it's not. By your own logic.

[Sondrelk]

10.0 - Deal with Primalists
10.1 - Deal with Scythid and twillights underground - start time travel to find Disc containing info about Aspects
10.2 - Disc is found, attempt empowernment, things go bad, Murozond happens - deal with infinites
10.3 - Murozond fucked timeways, Galakrond is sent to present day, deal with him and Incarnates, empower Aspects properly.


Sprinkle the various side plots (Dream, Nelves, Dragon politics, etc.) in-between.

I have to wonder about 10.2. usually that tends to be a B-plot tangentially related to the main plot, so I can only guess what that would be after I have a good grasp on what 10.1 would be.

Feel like the underground Scythid stuff fits better as a 10.2 plotline, especially as it allows a larger extra zone and a more fitting interlude patch.

10.1 I feel like might be related to the Forbidden Reach or whatever the Dracthyr intro area is called. It seems to occupy a similar niche that Broken Shore did in Legion with being an unused zone with important stuff on it.

[huth]

I know. I've seen the maps of Azeroth in Warcraft 3. It's nice that its so easy to discredit the resources the developers directly give us, but I still don't see you providing anything to back up your statement that "the twisting nether is to Disorder what the shadowlands is to Death" if that's allegedly "settled" by the canon.

Because it's not. By your own logic.

There's no discrediting. The developers themself told us that the chart doesn't give relationships. And you've already been given the evidence, you just refuse to acknowledge it.

[Darkarath]

10.0 - Deal with Primalists
10.1 - Deal with Scythid and twillights underground - start time travel to find Disc containing info about Aspects
10.2 - Disc is found, attempt empowernment, things go bad, Murozond happens - deal with infinites
10.3 - Murozond fucked timeways, Galakrond is sent to present day, deal with him and Incarnates, empower Aspects properly.


Sprinkle the various side plots (Dream, Nelves, Dragon politics, etc.) in-between.

I have not read much about these Scythids. Who do they worship? Is there an Old God in the Dragon Isles? If so, DF could go in a very different direction.

I will wait until I play 10.0 and read every quest to guess the patch content, as I have no clue right now.

[Makabreska]

10.0 - Deal with Primalists
10.1 - Deal with Scythid and twillights underground - start time travel to find Disc containing info about Aspects
10.2 - Disc is found, attempt empowernment, things go bad, Murozond happens - deal with infinites
10.3 - Murozond fucked timeways, Galakrond is sent to present day, deal with him and Incarnates, empower Aspects properly.


Sprinkle the various side plots (Dream, Nelves, Dragon politics, etc.) in-between.

Not liking this part. Do we really need them around doing aspect stuff again?

[Nymrohd]

So first thing, first tier boss is a dragon. I expect end boss to be a dragon too but at least one of the mid tiers needs to be something else. We will need a palate cleanser. On one hand it could be something thematic like an elemental but I don't see us facing Ragnaros a THIRD time (unless we befriend him this time and put down Smolderon which would imo be cool). It could be something completely funny; I think we might see a kobold megadungeon or raid with Togwaggle since we are going underground (because after that Hearthstone movie trailer, King Togwaggle deserves his own raid). The most likely option though is whatever type of Aqir those dudes assaulting the Dracthyr were get their own boss. Could be there is a group of primordial aqir (Before they differentiated and followed the different old gods) somewhere. Or maybe they are whatever aqir were shaped by Xal if she was the fifth one. Finally we could have Odyn make a move.

For end boss I expect Murozond. Galakrond could be something else. He could be a penultimate boss. I think it could be cool to make him a world boss you fight using dragonriding all over the Dragon Isles. Give a server wide message when the Primalists unleash him and everyone joins in and fights him. Probably not something the servers can actually handle though.

I do not think Chromatus will be a boss this expac. We need to restock villains. We have a weyrn that is likely to go hostile to Alliance and Horde, would be cool if they find and unleash Chromatus who is very much the dracthyr Aspect (a chromatic experiment combining all dragonflights by Neltharion, only in Dragon form and stronger than any of the Aspects). Do that and we can have his faction show up in the next few expansions alongside the few people left (Azshara, Denathrius) so that they actually have familiar options to throw against us in zones as side enemies.